• Welcome to the Internet Infidels Discussion Board.

How progressive left "white privilege" rhetoric is fueling white nationalism

As a progressive white person, it really bothers me how every problem on the planet is entirely my fault. :(

And when you get blamed for problems that are clearly not you fault what's the normal reaction: To lower one's opinion of those doing the blaming.

But the problem is that it's progressive whites who are blaming me. It's not like I'm getting dissed by some dirty sand-nigger or something.
 
And when you get blamed for problems that are clearly not you fault what's the normal reaction: To lower one's opinion of those doing the blaming.

But the problem is that it's progressive whites who are blaming me. It's not like I'm getting dissed by some dirty sand-nigger or something.

So now the message that progressive whites as lying, brainwashing self-haters will tend to be just a little bit more appealing - a position which is held by and frequently repeated by white nationalists.
 
But the problem is that it's progressive whites who are blaming me. It's not like I'm getting dissed by some dirty sand-nigger or something.

So now you and those like you will be more likely to tune into the message that progressive whites as lying, brainwashing self-haters - a message espoused by white nationalists.

Well, now that you've told me that they're blaming my group, my opinion of the white nationalists has lowered, so I rescind my objection to the previous point.
 
And when you get blamed for problems that are clearly not you fault what's the normal reaction: To lower one's opinion of those doing the blaming.

But the problem is that it's progressive whites who are blaming me. It's not like I'm getting dissed by some dirty sand-nigger or something.

See, Tom knows from whence his troubles flow.
 
So now you and those like you will be more likely to tune into the message that progressive whites as lying, brainwashing self-haters - a message espoused by white nationalists.

Well, now that you've told me that they're blaming my group, my opinion of the white nationalists has lowered, so I rescind my objection to the previous point.

But if you are not a progressive white, you are not part of that group the white nationalists are blaming. If you are a progressive white, there is little concern that any of white nationalist messages will appeal to you in the first place.
 
But the problem is that it's progressive whites who are blaming me. It's not like I'm getting dissed by some dirty sand-nigger or something.

So now the message that progressive whites as lying, brainwashing self-haters will tend to be just a little bit more appealing - a position which is held by and frequently repeated by white nationalists.

Tom didn't say the progressives hated themselves, he said they blamed him. Where do you get this stuff?
 
So now the message that progressive whites as lying, brainwashing self-haters will tend to be just a little bit more appealing - a position which is held by and frequently repeated by white nationalists.

Tom didn't say the progressives hated themselves, he said they blamed him. Where do you get this stuff?

I never said Tom said it, in fact I specifically said the white nationalists are saying it and frequently repeating it.
 
Well, now that you've told me that they're blaming my group, my opinion of the white nationalists has lowered...

Thank you for the life-lesson, Tom. I now see that I need to moderate my own opinions to leave room for the possibility that I might have to lower them. :)
 
So white privilege shouldn't be talked about?

Here is what I have learned in life. What I say, for the most part, doesn't make people feel or do anything, or at least anything they don't already want to do. They may use what I say as an excuse, but what I say or what the President says or what BLM says doesn't fuel anything. If BLM stood for Bologna & Liverwurst Matter and a white nationalist needed some excuse for his irrational beliefs, he would find a way to make cold cuts somehow responsible for all things wrong in the lives of white Americans.

Therefore I do my work and let others worry about their own hurt feelings about it.

The study in the article indicates that directly addressing/challenging the idea of white supremacy and debunking its arguments is the better way to go, as well as doing assignments/tasks/videos that increase empathy towards non-whites.
OK
You can and should include information about past and currently existing racial disparities in the lesson, but the "white privilege" rhetoric further solidifies tribal thinking and identity, such thinking which leads whites to treat the white "race" as a special interest group in politics.
But the existence of privilege, all kinds of privilege including racial privilege, is part of that debunking. And here's the thing, many white people don't take critiques of whiteness or the social construct "white people" to heart. Which makes me wonder why those who do, well, do?
The rhetoric also won't ring true to the lived experience of disadvantaged whites, members from which white supremacy groups draw their largest support with the victimhood and "liberal lies" rhetoric that such supremacist groups espouse - whose message will be all that more attractive.
That would be fine and dandy, but for one thing. Any white nationalist will tell you, no matter how bad his life is, at least, thank God, he wasn't born a nigger.

He freely embraces his whiteness as his ultimate good, his ultimate privilege, as the one thing that make him better than minorities and bestows upon him a right to be treated better than them.
 
So white privilege shouldn't be talked about?

Here is what I have learned in life. What I say, for the most part, doesn't make people feel or do anything, or at least anything they don't already want to do. They may use what I say as an excuse, but what I say or what the President says or what BLM says doesn't fuel anything. If BLM stood for Bologna & Liverwurst Matter and a white nationalist needed some excuse for his irrational beliefs, he would find a way to make cold cuts somehow responsible for all things wrong in the lives of white Americans.

Therefore I do my work and let others worry about their own hurt feelings about it.

The study in the article indicates that directly addressing/challenging the idea of white supremacy and debunking its arguments is the better way to go, as well as doing assignments/tasks/videos that increase empathy towards non-whites. You can and should include information about past and currently existing racial disparities in the lesson, but the "white privilege" rhetoric further solidifies tribal thinking and identity, such thinking which leads whites to treat the white "race" as a special interest group in politics. The rhetoric also won't ring true to the lived experience of disadvantaged whites, members from which white supremacy groups draw their largest support with the victimhood and "liberal lies" rhetoric that such supremacist groups espouse - whose message will be all that more attractive.

Yes. I've been saying this for a long time now. You don't fight racism with more racism (that you pretend isn't racism). You fight racism by creating bonds between people that have nothing to do with race and creating cross empathy by focus on the root issue (tribalism) when you do address racism. You want to talk to the white people and actually get them to see racism happening? Don't immediately include them with the racists just because of their race. It isn't white people that are the problem. It is racists that are the problem. Rhethoric like we see so often from the regressive left does more harm than good, pushing people into boxes, and once labeled people tend to become the label. That applies equally to equating black with thug or poor as equating white with privileged or racist.

Athena said:
So white privilege shouldn't be talked about?

Put that up there on the board beside "black violence". Sure you can talk about these things. But you need to be careful with them. They WILL invite misunderstanding.

ronburgundy said:
Using terms that pervert mere statistical trends that are correlated with race but with many countervailing instances into something that conveys a perfect correspondence inherent to racial differences is a bad and racist approach that will fuel racist sentiments generally.

Exactly. Well said.
 
Claiming that "leftists" of any stripe are causing an increase in white nationalism is like blaming oxygen for an increase in forest fires. White nationalists are whiny bullies. Why would any rational person take any stock in the claims of victimhood?
 
And when you get blamed for problems that are clearly not you fault what's the normal reaction: To lower one's opinion of those doing the blaming.

But the problem is that it's progressive whites who are blaming me. It's not like I'm getting dissed by some dirty sand-nigger or something.

And the result is a lowered opinion of progressives.
 
Claiming that "leftists" of any stripe are causing an increase in white nationalism is like blaming oxygen for an increase in forest fires.

No, that is a completely invalid analogy. Oxygen is an non-sentient object that doesn't not make choices to act in ways that fuel the fire. An apt analogy would be a person who comes across a forest fire and then dumps a truckload of gasoline and pumps artificial sources of oxygen into the fire, increasing its size and damage, and reducing our ability to control it. No, they didn't start the fire (Damn Billy Joel), but they are making it worse by adding fuel to it.


White nationalists are whiny bullies. Why would any rational person take any stock in the claims of victimhood?

No one is denying that they are bullies and assholes or claiming they are innocent victims. They are people who, like all people, are impacted by and react to their social environment and the ideas around them, including efforts to force them to be hyper aware of what racial category they belong to and efforts to use that category against them. Yes, their own negative tendencies and qualities impact whether they react to racist attacks by being racist themselves. Just like Black Separatists (who are also greatly on the rise BTW, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center), respond to racism with hateful racism of their own. But that doesn't change the fact that racial identity rhetoric and assigning a trait to members of a race due solely to that categorization will be a determining factor for many people in whether they move toward racial ideology and how far they go in that direction.

Also, huge numbers of whites have in fact been victimized, not because they are white but because most victimizations, including those due to our political and economic system, have nothing to do with race, so members of all races get victimized by more powerful people of their same or other races. They are poor, have lousy schools, got screwed by employers, and have no political power. You telling them that their skin color makes them "privileged" and that they actually have tons of power just because the very people that do have power and screwed them over share their skin color is objectively false, racist, and understandably rage inducing. And, that same lack of actual privilege that makes them poor, uneducated, and lacking real political influence is what makes them more likely to react with white nationalism to your racist attacks, condescension, and lack of empathy.

Leftists that engage in "white privilege" rhetoric are also ignorant bullies. Sure, just like many playground bullies, they got bullied first by some asshole, but then they go and take it out on some other kid just because he kind of looks like the original bully, even when that other kid has already been getting his ass kicked by the original bully too. Now that third kid is more likely to become a bully himself and eventually you have a playground filled with nothing but assholes.
 
No, that is a completely invalid analogy....
You missed the point - white nationalists will come up with any excuse - rational or not - to justify their behavior.

No one is denying that they are bullies and assholes or claiming they are innocent victims. They are people who, like all people, are impacted by and react to their social environment and the ideas around them, including efforts to force them to be hyper aware of what racial category they belong to and efforts to use that category against them. Yes, their own negative tendencies and qualities impact whether they react to racist attacks by being racist themselves. Just like Black Separatists (who are also greatly on the rise BTW, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center), respond to racism with hateful racism of their own. But that doesn't change the fact that racial identity rhetoric and assigning a trait to members of a race due solely to that categorization will be a determining factor for many people in whether they move toward racial ideology and how far they go in that direction.
So people who routinely wrongly deny that racism is a cause for some behavior are affecting the social environment?
 
Claiming or implying that talking about white privilege is to blame for white nationalism is nothing more than "might is right."

White people are not being persecuted or threatened in any way by challenging white privilege. It's a systemic and impersonal phenomenon, and not an accusation against any person. People reacting as if they are persecuted and threatened by challenging a systemic social issue are reacting irrationally. "Normal" reaction or not, it's irrational and delusional and there is no need to play along with it just to keep the peace with people who want to break our knees for questioning an unjust status quo.

Pissing off religious people by questioning their beliefs doesn't actually hurt them, and it's our right to do so if we choose. Same with white privilege.
 
Claiming or implying that talking about white privilege is to blame for white nationalism is nothing more than "might is right."

White people are not being persecuted or threatened in any way by challenging white privilege. It's a systemic and impersonal phenomenon, and not an accusation against any person. People reacting as if they are persecuted and threatened by challenging a systemic social issue are reacting irrationally. "Normal" reaction or not, it's irrational and delusional and there is no need to play along with it just to keep the peace with people who want to break our knees for questioning an unjust status quo.

Pissing off religious people by questioning their beliefs doesn't actually hurt them, and it's our right to do so if we choose. Same with white privilege.

Do you mean that discussions of racism and privilege aren't personal attack against each and every white person individually? That racism isn't about Joe not liking Jim but Joe and Jim being shaped and manipulated by forces neither one controls? The dickens you say!
 
Claiming or implying that talking about white privilege is to blame for white nationalism is nothing more than "might is right."

White people are not being persecuted or threatened in any way by challenging white privilege. It's a systemic and impersonal phenomenon, and not an accusation against any person. People reacting as if they are persecuted and threatened by challenging a systemic social issue are reacting irrationally. "Normal" reaction or not, it's irrational and delusional and there is no need to play along with it just to keep the peace with people who want to break our knees for questioning an unjust status quo.

Pissing off religious people by questioning their beliefs doesn't actually hurt them, and it's our right to do so if we choose. Same with white privilege.

Do you mean that discussions of racism and privilege aren't personal attack against each and every white person individually? That racism isn't about Joe not liking Jim but Joe and Jim being shaped and manipulated by forces neither one controls? The dickens you say!
I know, it's a very tricky concept.
 
White privilege now includes that white nationalists don't have to take responsibility for their racism. At least that's how alt-right apologists act as if.
 
White privilege now includes that white nationalists don't have to take responsibility for their racism. At least that's how alt-right apologists act as if.

Exactly. "Might is right." Meaning, "if you piss us off, we are not responsible for what we do to you in vengeance. Shouldn't have pissed us off." *shoots your dog*
 
Back
Top Bottom