How should I respond to persons who embrace trump's voting conspiracy?

[Cheerful Charlie]

Easy, start telling them the REAL truth. Shape shifting alien lizard people! A secret cabal of people hiding under the "satirical" flying Spaghetti cult! Lyndon LaRouche told the truth, Queen Elizabeth runs the world wide heroin trade! Secret Nazi UFO bases in the Arctic! Russian secret hurricane causing satellite technology! Vast swarms of crazed TV evangelists controlled by Satan to discredit Jesus and Christianity! Santa Muerte cultists taking over entire Southwestern states!

Done properly, they will never bother you again.

 

[jab]

Unfortunately, I have come to the conclusion that there is nothing I can say to those people that will make the slightest difference in how they see things. I did try to give the usual rational reasons that others have shared, but it had no effect at all other than making them more angry and intense.

So at this point, there are some family members on snooze in Facebook because I just can't take any more of their angry screeching. I have to say that it has improved my mental health considerably to no longer read what they are pushing.

Ruth

Tell them once, then let it alone and let it stew.

 

[Elixir]

Ask them if they are going to fight back violently. After all this is the most heinous crime in our nation’s history! We’ve lost our democracy! We must fight this. Why hasn’t tRump called on his supporters to arm themselves?

Yeah, that. Tell them you're in the market for an AK, and ask if they know where you can get one. Because "we need to get out in the streets and defend the truth like The President said we would".

It cracks me up to envision thousands of trumpanzees armed to the teeth, standing around in the streets looking for "the enemy". But Donald DID promise they'd be there if anyone tried to take his throne away from him...

 

[Rhea]

I have several approaches to use when needed. All fall unde the headings of

• Don’t try to convince them they are wrong, just try to convince them I am human, safe and not evil
• Give them a way to save face to themselves so they can change their mind without having to feel complicit
• Don’t give answers, give questions, posed as questions I ask myself

So some examples:

1. I was wondering about that when I heard it. I looked up this thing, and it made me feel confident that it wasn’t the way they said it.
2. Yeah, I heard that. Though - I’m hearing lots of people turning away from it. They were saying BBB convinced them.
3. Ugh, yeah, I know what you mean. I found myself trying to change the topic, too. I realized I was really uncomfortable with that question, so I gave myself a pause to figure out why. I decided I didn’t have to defend that one, you know? I could just say “yeah, that one was wrong.”
4. One thing I’m glad about is how much we’re talking to each other. I’m surprised by how much there is to learn, aren’t you? When you listen to what you call the “other side” and you realize, hey, they are a regular person like me.
5. I heard that. I was looking for the evidence for it, did you find any? I really wanted to understand, but they didn’t give any evidence and I was looking for it.
6. You know, I heard that! I was thinking, though, do you think that makes more sense than this other [thing that actually makes sense]
7. No, no, I want to stay on this one, we’ll talk about Obama next, but I really want to understand this one by itself.
8. A lot of people are saying they’re kind of disappointed that he did that. They were expecting him to [rational act that a normall person would have done]
9. I can see why you’d want to change the topic. They really didn’t do well with that one. But I’ve heard a lot of people are talking about how they are feeling let down. It’s frustrating.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Or imitate a game show bell and go, "DING!! Survey says: turn off the Fox News. It's dulling your judgment."

 

[Lunawalk]

This is a serious question. Sure, a flippant remark can get the message across, but what about family members and friends that you will continue to share a relationship with? Or even a new acquaintance who espouses same? What is the best response?

I really want to ask them if they've spoken to a professional about their present psychosis. Would that be going too far?

You can ask why trump let the gsa acknowledge Biden's win. He than told his administration to Comply with biden's team. Let in on the presidential daily briefings. Why would let a man he thinks stole the election have military briefings and secrets of the presidency.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

This is a serious question. Sure, a flippant remark can get the message across, but what about family members and friends that you will continue to share a relationship with? Or even a new acquaintance who espouses same? What is the best response?

I really want to ask them if they've spoken to a professional about their present psychosis. Would that be going too far?

You can ask why trump let the gsa acknowledge Biden's win. He than told his administration to Comply with biden's team. Let in on the presidential daily briefings. Why would let a man he thinks stole the election have military briefings and secrets of the presidency.

That's quite true. Maybe persons like myself take Trumpy too seriously, maybe I'm as guilty as the assholes who believe his conspiracies because he gets a reaction out of myself as well.

If Trumpy believed his own rhetoric, being the most powerful person on the planet, why would he be accepting Biden's win? The fact that he is accepting it with his actions despite running his mouth nonstop proves that he doesn't believe his own words.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

This is a serious question. Sure, a flippant remark can get the message across, but what about family members and friends that you will continue to share a relationship with? Or even a new acquaintance who espouses same? What is the best response?

I really want to ask them if they've spoken to a professional about their present psychosis. Would that be going too far?

I think I am at the point where I've given up. My situation is that I responded to a relative on facebook many times. She posts about 20 posts a day on politics and it's extremely annoying. Much qanon stuff and Trump cultist stuff. In the beginning, I'd provide a snopes link but I don't have the energy to research and debunk any more than 10% of the posts. So I responded like once every other day or so. Some of her friends agreed with me. Then, after a while, just last few days it has gotten worse in that the posts are more intense because it is becoming clear that Biden "stole" the election and there will be no private property by 2030....part of the great reset. Anyway, I hoped some of my rational responses would reach her mind in a year or more when she leaves the cult. I don't think that any more because I believe the cult provides emotional support, community, religion, and real-life relationships that I cannot compete with. So, I just hope instead that some of her friends who were moderates read my posts and could be convinced. So remain professional and rational is my advice so that those reading get it.

 

[ideologyhunter]

How should I respond to persons who embrace Trump's voting conspiracy?

52% of the time, the response is, "Hello, Senator."


Yeah, I know about Mitt.

 

[Lunawalk]

This is a serious question. Sure, a flippant remark can get the message across, but what about family members and friends that you will continue to share a relationship with? Or even a new acquaintance who espouses same? What is the best response?

I really want to ask them if they've spoken to a professional about their present psychosis. Would that be going too far?

You can ask why trump let the gsa acknowledge Biden's win. He than told his administration to Comply with biden's team. Let in on the presidential daily briefings. Why would let a man he thinks stole the election have military briefings and secrets of the presidency.

That's quite true. Maybe persons like myself take Trumpy too seriously, maybe I'm as guilty as the assholes who believe his conspiracies because he gets a reaction out of myself as well.

If Trumpy believed his own rhetoric, being the most powerful person on the planet, why would he be accepting Biden's win? The fact that he is accepting it with his actions despite running his mouth nonstop proves that he doesn't believe his own words.

I also feel uncomfortable about his efforts to retain power. His refusal to recognize Biden win. I think he has to maintain a brave front to his devoted fans
but deep down he knows he lost the election.

 

[Elixir]

I no longer believe there's any way to have a constructive dialogue with trumpsters about their ailment.
There is a collective perceptual deficit that they reinforce in each other, one that keeps them from recognizing a sleazy, dishonest flimflam artist when they see one, or even when they've been fleeced by one.
I believe that the only solution is to codify democratic norms that have historically been honored and have now been systematically violated, Stuff like separation of powers, independence of the DOJ, honoring the emoluments clause and about a million other things.
And the more I think about it, the more I believe that it will be necessary, no matter how unpalatable, to go after every single person who has committed crimes in service of the Trump Junta. CBP agents and ICE officials who went along with Stephen Miller's child separation policy, for instance. Bill Barr for lying to the public in violation of his oath, Trump for his campaign finance felonies etc. etc. etc.
Absent reprisals, there will be no suppressing the "freedumb" caucus in the public domain, no quelling the expression of the trumptarded sense of great liberty that makes it okay to brandish arms in State Capitols if you don't like what they are legislating etc. etc.
It will be nice to have a few years of less of that crap with the Biden administration, but if a whole lot of rat traps aren't laid out, we will be overrun with rats again in '24.

 

[Gospel]

I'm married to a Trump supporter which happens to be a person who said things like "Zee Vah Rue Cin Tee Lah". My experience is there is absolutely nothing you can say to change their minds. What I do in regards to my wife & her out of this world beliefs is to stay the course by continuing to sip whiskey while using critical thinking in my responses along with a sprinkle of "that's not at all what I meant" when my words are twisted. My go to approach is mainly saying things like "How does that make you feel?" & "what do you intend to do about it?" I hardly ever have to offer any counter arguments as she provides many of them on her own when pushed for detailed explanations. She's come a long way. how do I know? She hardly speaks in Tongues these days.

 

[ideologyhunter]

To clarify...the "Zee Vah" stuff is glossolalia? Because, if so, it doesn't have the cadence of true spirit-filled glossolalia, which tends to be full of Sha's and La's, as in, quote, "Oh, shalala dala shala-lam-bo!! Ohhh, shala, lala, UMM-dala lambola!" There's more, but I get teary-eyed. Trump tried to high-five the glossolalia fanciers, but all he came up with a measly covfefe.

 

[Gospel]

To clarify my wife does indeed do the "Oh, shalala dala shala-lam-bo" I deliberately used "Zee Vah Rue Cin Tee Lah" because to me there is absolutely no difference.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Then I sympathize. When I see footage of those Xtians who go full-vent on the "Shala-LALA-shambo-LALA!" I wonder if their friends don't ask, "You're not gonna shit in my car, are you?" Because there's no inhibition. No brakes.

 

[Gun Nut]

I like to use the technique called "mirroring". That is, be a mirror to their behavior or attitude so they can see what they look / sound like from another perspective.
For example, "become" a Flat Earther. Collect some materials and make effort to convince your Trumpies that the Earth is flat and NASA is a huge conspiracy. 100,000's people are all in on it and lying to the public... for decades. Mirror their methods and comments... use their words as much as possible while trying to convince them of something completely ridiculous. Give them obvious opportunities to debunk your sources as crackpot. Use their exact observations against THEIR sources for Trumpism... rinse repeat...
You're not trying to convince them that they have been conned directly.. you are trying to help them develop the skills to identify that YOU have been conned (by the Flat Earthers).

 

[Gospel]

I like to use the technique called "mirroring". That is, be a mirror to their behavior or attitude so they can see what they look / sound like from another perspective.
For example, "become" a Flat Earther. Collect some materials and make effort to convince your Trumpies that the Earth is flat and NASA is a huge conspiracy. 100,000's people are all in on it and lying to the public... for decades. Mirror their methods and comments... use their words as much as possible while trying to convince them of something completely ridiculous. Give them obvious opportunities to debunk your sources as crackpot. Use their exact observations against THEIR sources for Trumpism... rinse repeat...
You're not trying to convince them that they have been conned directly.. you are trying to help them develop the skills to identify that YOU have been conned (by the Flat Earthers).

Is that what you've been doing on this forum?

 

[Gun Nut]

I like to use the technique called "mirroring". That is, be a mirror to their behavior or attitude so they can see what they look / sound like from another perspective.
For example, "become" a Flat Earther. Collect some materials and make effort to convince your Trumpies that the Earth is flat and NASA is a huge conspiracy. 100,000's people are all in on it and lying to the public... for decades. Mirror their methods and comments... use their words as much as possible while trying to convince them of something completely ridiculous. Give them obvious opportunities to debunk your sources as crackpot. Use their exact observations against THEIR sources for Trumpism... rinse repeat...
You're not trying to convince them that they have been conned directly.. you are trying to help them develop the skills to identify that YOU have been conned (by the Flat Earthers).

Is that what you've been doing on this forum?

Sometimes. When I think it might be effective. It's just one way of many to structure an argument.

 

[Gospel]

I may have misinterpreted some of those posts as sarcasm. Has that really worked in real life though? I've tried mirroring in an attempt to convert my wife to agnosticism by insinuating an Atheist's position that there is no God is just as nuts as believing there is one. All I was greeted with was a Amen and a sincere request to repeat my argument at church.

 

[Gun Nut]

I may have misinterpreted some of those posts as sarcasm. Has that really worked in real life though? I've tried mirroring in an attempt to convert my wife to agnosticism by insinuating an Atheist's position that there is no God is just as nuts as believing there is one. All I was greeted with was a Amen and a sincere request to repeat my argument at church.

It only works when the subject has the mental capacity to see equivalences in otherwise unrelated arguments. This is why it is key to success to use their actual words. If they call something a CON.. then call something else a CON... if they say "CONSPIRACY", then use those words. It helps them understand that what they are seeing is actually a reflection (mirror) of their very own argument.

At least, whatever their argument is against YOUR (mock) conspiracy theory, you can then use THOSE words in your argument against theirs to help them understand that what they are looking at is themselves.

At the very least - worse case - you can spell it out with, "Your reasoning for believing X has helped me feel more confident in my belief of Y".
When they ask "why", that's your cue to explain it so a 5 year old can understand.... now that they are at least turning to the same page at that point.