How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Jayjay]

It is flexible even when it comes to borders of Russia.

You still haven't pointed out a single part of Russia that was invaded by "The West", "NATO", "Nazis" or any other deluded fantasy you have been peddling. When did the West place foreign troops on Russian soil? Answer; they didn't.

Once again Russia is acting like the abusive husband yelling at his wife, "Look what you made me do!".

So, Romanian Foreign Minister (former). Any comments about that?

Yes. It's not the first time you've posted something without backing it up. I've got another comment - I doubt it will be the last. Kinda like that Canadian General whom you were convinced was working undercover for NATO to support Nazis.

He's being held in prison in Moscow and will be revealed any day now. Just you wait, all of barbos's conspiracy theories will be proven true!

 

[Patooka]

It can't literally invade yet. Closest they can do is to support proxy conflicts and economic wars.
But western TV talking heads do talk about invasion already, so.......

I understand it's above your pay grade to understand, but NATO/EU/US talking heads don't actually want a War with Russia. They want bigger salaries. It's economy, stupid!

In a little over 90 minutes you've gone from "NATO attacked Russia first", to "NATO invaded in 2014 and 2008" to "NATO didn't invade at all".

This is why your credibility is...far from ideal to put it mildly.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Pewtin unhappy with Ukraine grain shipment deal

I'd say Pewtin wants to hold unto the south because it gives him the ability to blackmail using grain shipments. Will he be able to? The jury is still out but it doesn't look good at this point. Ukraine and the west know he'll bomb anything he wants, including infrastructure to achieve his ends so i don't think they're very concerned at this point. The Rashists keep recirculating the same propaganda, must make them feel better.

 

[SLD]

No you don't. You only need to know of the well known and significant people in the field under discussion,

OK, I looked them up. They are insignificant people who were responsible for significant and stupid events in history which I am well aware of. I just did not register their names because they are nobodys, which is is kinda the point.

Anyway, it's not relevant here. Because Ukraine was never an Empire. It's an artificial country conjured by a series of illegal annexations and splits of the last century. I is currently run by idiots who sold their "country" to millitary industrial complex of the west. Ukraine has well defined internal boundaries at which it can be safely split to its pre-WW2 state.

Having said that, your western talking heads are actually talking about splitting Russia. What do you have to say about that?

Run by idiots? They’re kicking your ass and have been since February.

 

[SLD]

The fact is, people in Eastern Europe are way less ignorant than you. And they do not support this NATO war on Russia.

When did NATO invade Russia again? I must have missed that.

2014 and 2008.

I checked the dates. You're dead wrong. No invasion occurred.

NATO definitely started both wars. And if consider Sevastopol Oblast to be Russian territory, which it was, then NATO invasion has technically occurred as well.

OK, so why hasn’t Putin attacked other NATO nations? Is he a pussy?

 

[pood]

Hey, Barbos, how do you feel about your shit hole country and its Nazi hoodlum in the Kremlin having its ass handed to them by the brave Ukrainians?

Oh, wait, I know … according to you, the Russians simply ”withdrew” from the lands they occupied and left Ukraine to “punch air” and take casualties.

 

[lpetrich]

When did NATO invade Russia again? I must have missed that.

2014 and 2008. also in 1918, in 19 century also.
NATO countries have been invading Russia since well before NATO was formally established.

I checked the dates. You're dead wrong. No invasion occurred.

NATO definitely started both wars. And if consider Sevastopol Oblast to be Russian territory, which it was, then NATO invasion has technically occurred as well.

What 19th-cy. war is barbos talking about? The Crimean War?

For 1918-19, there was the  North Russia intervention where Britain and the US occupied Murmansk and Arkhangelsk in an attempt to assist the anti-Bolshevik "Whites" in the Russian Civil War.

Advancing to 2008, I find the  Russo-Georgian War, where Russia conquered Abkhazia and South Ossetia in Eurasian Georgia (not the US state). How was that war supposed to be NATO aggression?

In 2014 was the  Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation. Here also, how was that war supposed to be NATO aggression?

 

[lpetrich]

Lysychansk remains unconfirmed, but the Ukrainian armed forces have liberated a nearby town, Bilohorivka.

Michael MacKay on Twitter: "The Armed Forces of Ukraine are in full control of Bilohorivka. The liberation of Luhansk region is underway.
The flag of Ukraine has been raised over Yarova in the north of Donetsk region. Ukrainian defenders battle retreating rashist militants on the outskirts of Drobysheve. (pic link)" / Twitter
and
WarMonitor on Twitter: "Situation west of Lysychansk:
Ukrainian forces are in full control of Bilohorivka and are attempting advances in three directions.
It is reported Russian forces are attempting counterattacks from Novodruzhesk direction. (pic link)" / Twitter

This is apparently a false alarm:
Neil Hauer on Twitter: "Longtime source in Ukraine's Foreign Legion tells me Lysychansk is fully under Ukrainian control. "River is crossed, city is ours - Severodonetsk soon."" / Twitter

 

[lpetrich]

Joyero Ucraniano on Twitter: "@mhmck The video of the Ukrainian troops crossing the Oskil River near Kup'iansk to continue the offensive heading East, towards Svatove and Lyman. (vid link)" / Twitter

Angel | ४ ☽ on Twitter: "#war I don’t know why I’ve taken on geolocation as a hobby. It genuinely doesn’t have much of an impact. But that said, I think I may have found the hotel that was struck is Svatove. I’m sure someone else will confirm it. But the colors and city match. (pix link)" / Twitter


I looked for news about Kherson, and the fighting near there appears to be stalemated, with no big advances by either side.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

With Russia in retreat, it'll get harder for Ukraine to "fake" those Russian attacks.

 

[lpetrich]

Russians have a curious nickname for Ukrainians: hohol or khokhol. That is the last name of Ukrainian-Russian novelist and playwright  Nikolai Gogol pronounced with a Ukrainian accent, where g -> kh/h, making Khokhol or Hohol. Spelling tends to be more conservative than pronunciation, and Ukrainian spelling is no exception, using the Cyrillic counterpart of g for that sound.

That's why (Russian) Lugansk ~ (Ukrainian) Luhansk, etc.

There are other phonological variations, like Russian -ov ~ Ukrainian -iv, as in Kharkov ~ Kharkiv, Lvov ~ Lviv, etc.

There are also spelling variations, like Russian backwards N for /i/ and Ukrainian I (like the Roman-alphabet letter) for that sound. Ukrainian uses the backwards N for a different sound. Russian has a backward curved-back E used for /e/ instead of /ye/ at the beginnings of words, and Ukrainian has a forward version of it for /e/ in the middle of words.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

What ... is barbos talking about?

Talking? You must mean babbling and fantasizing.

I'm going to guess that on the Ruski side of Ukraine's eastern border there isn't much defense at all. Ukraine should make a southern move to encircle the Rashists driving south just outside their border with the Ruskis. Even a feint toward this end ought to make life more difficult for the occupiers who might start shitting themselves again.

 

[lpetrich]

Russia is Burning all Sorts of Bridges

Dmitry Medvedev, Russia’s former president, made headlines in early August when he published a lengthy statement that labeled Kazakhstan as an “artificial state” and warned Nur-Sultan of a Ukraine-like scenario. Unfortunately, rather than constructive and bridge-building, comments like these continue to create a divide between Russia and its allies.

Medvedev’s statement was made via his Vkontakte account to his 2.2 million followers, in which he accused Kazakhstan of carrying out a “genocide” against ethnic Russians who live in northern Kazakhstan via resettlement policies. Moreover, he warned that Russia would protect ethnic Russians and alluded to the current war in Ukraine. However, the statement was deleted days later, and Medvedev’s team issued another statement explaining that the account was hacked.

...
This is not the first time a former member of the Soviet Union has been threatened since the war in Ukraine started. In early September, Sergei Lavrov, Russia’s foreign minister, threatened Moldova if Russian military personnel, including the so-called peacekeepers stationed in Transnistria, were attacked. Azerbaijan also received a similar threat from a Russian policymaker in March.

Russia's Medvedev Deletes Posts Targeting 'Artificial' Kazakhstan, Georgia

The post said that "after the liberation of Kyiv and all the territories of Little Russia from gangs of nationalists... Russia will become united again."

"Little Russia" (Malorossiya) is Ukraine.

It also said that before 1801, Georgia as a country didn't exist, and that it was part of the Russian empire and that "North and South Ossetia, Abkhazia and the remaining territories of Georgia can only be united as part of a single state with Russia."

Kazakhstan is an "artificial state" that was mainly Slavic before the collapse of the Soviet Union, that resettling "can be classified as the genocide of Russians," like Russia's justification of invading Ukraine. "We have no intention of closing our eyes. There will be no order until the Russians go there."

"No one should have any doubts that the fatal mistake that took place in the early 1990s will be corrected," referring to the breakup of the Soviet Union. "All the peoples who once lived in the great and powerful Soviet Union will live together again in friendship and mutual understanding." and "Russia will again become united, powerful and invincible as it was one thousand years ago." and "We will go on the next campaign to restore the borders of our Motherland, which, as you know, are never ending."

Seems like what Vladimir Putin wrote about Ukraine, that it is not a real country but a separated part of Russia.

 

[lpetrich]

This is weird.
Russians do not recognise passports they issued in temporarily occupied areas of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts Ukrainian intelligence
noting
Main Directorate of Intelligence of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine - Facebook
autotranslated:

!! ️RF does not recognize its own passports issued in the territory of "LDNR", their owners do not pass across the border
After the arrival of the Ukrainian Defense Forces, the sentiments of the pro-Russian residents of the Ordlo have changed dramatically. The dissatisfaction with the course of conducting the so-called "special operation" and the actions of the Russian government are celebrated. There is an opinion that the Russian Federation surrenders the interests of the "republic". These sentiments have further intensified after it turned out that Russian passports issued in the territory of the Ordlo have no legal force in the territory of Russia. At least those who tried to leave the "ldnr" for such a passport, at the Russian border explain that "you are nobody and your name is nothing".
Also among the personnel staff of the 14th separate special-purpose brigade (in / h 74854) of the Russian Federation information is spread that by 01.12.2022 one of the stages of "his" has to be completed. Following this, the withdrawal of regular units of the zs of the Russian Federation from the occupied territories of Ukraine is planned. It seems that these territories will be handed over to the so-called "volunteer battalions". Probably, for example 1 (Donetsk) and 2 (Luhansk) army corps.

Date format: day.month.year - 01.12.2022 is December 1, 2022

 

[Copernicus]

You still haven't pointed out a single part of Russia that was invaded by "The West", "NATO"

It can't literally invade yet. Closest they can do is to support proxy conflicts and economic wars.
But western TV talking heads do talk about invasion already, so.......

I understand it's above your pay grade to understand, but NATO/EU/US talking heads don't actually want a War with Russia. They want bigger salaries. It's economy, stupid!

Again, Romanian Foreign Minister!

Everyone should stop piling on barbos over this, because he really works hard to dig up important figures in the West who have voiced some kind of support for Putin's war. In this case, he has discovered a former foreign minister of Romania who left office in 2012, before Putin's invasion of Crimea.  Andrei Marga was such a distinguished figure that nobody should hold it against him that, after he left office, "...it became known that Marga was an informant for Securitate, the secret police of the Socialist Republic of Romania. His appeal to a court on the grounds of misinformation was dismissed, as this information was proven by Securitate's archives." A minor blemish in his distinguished image.

Marga is such an important figure in Romania that we must all now realize how little support there is for Ukraine in all of eastern Europe. We should not be surprised if barbos comes up with some other former east European official who voices words of support for Putin. They seem to be everywhere these days.

 

[Copernicus]

Although the words of a former Romanian prime minister must be a blow to Ukrainian morale, it is still possible to find some brave Russian voices speaking out against the war. In this video of the song "Basta Rasta", Russian rock legend Boris Grebenshchikov gives his take on the Ukraine War. Grebenshchikov is now banned in Russia (as he has been many times in the past, going all the way back to the 1970s), but he has become a household name in Russia. Almost a million views have been recorded on Youtube. The lyrics can be found here translated into English:

Баста Раста (Basta Rasta) (English translation)​

 

[lpetrich]

After Russia took over the east end of Ukraine in 2014, pro-Russian separatists proclaimed two breakaway states, the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics. But they are recognized by only a tiny number of other nations:  International recognition of the Donetsk People's Republic and the Luhansk People's Republic

• Recognizes DPR and LPR:
  • UN members: Russia, Syria, North Korea
  • Others: DPR, LPR, South Ossetia, Abkhazia
• Supports Russia's recognition of DPR and LPR:
  • UN members: Belarus, Central African Republic, Cuba, Nicaragua, Sudan, Venezuela
  • Others: Artsakh
• Supports Ukraine's territorial integrity without rejecting Russia's rejection of DPR and LPR:
  • UN members: Brazil, China, India, Mexico, Serbia
  • Others:
• Rejects Russia's rejection of DPR and LPR:
  • UN members: All non-ex-Soviet European nations but Serbia, the US, Canada, several Caribbean islands, Kenya, Mauritius, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, these ex-Soviet nations: Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Ukraine, Georgia, Kazakhstan (neutral ones: Moldova, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan)
  • Others: Taiwan

 

[bilby]

The Russian insistence that artificial states and artificial countries should cease to exist makes them sound like a bunch of hippies. One world, man! No borders, no checkpoints, no countries.

Certainly no Russia.

 

[Jayjay]

Pewtin unhappy with Ukraine grain shipment deal

I'd say Pewtin wants to hold unto the south because it gives him the ability to blackmail using grain shipments. Will he be able to? The jury is still out but it doesn't look good at this point. Ukraine and the west know he'll bomb anything he wants, including infrastructure to achieve his ends so i don't think they're very concerned at this point. The Rashists keep recirculating the same propaganda, must make them feel better.

I think there is something the public doesn't know about the grain deal. On paper it makes absolutely no sense for Russia to let Ukraine ship anything. Russia's goal is to crush Ukrainian economy and society in every possible way. Putin's statements might indicate that he intends to renege on the deal at some point, now that the war is not going his way.

My speculation is that it's a deal between Erdogan and Putin, so that the former can present themselves as saviors of the poor masses in Middle-East and North Africa, and in exchange Turkey doesn't join Western sanctions. But who knows.

(EDITED: fixed mixup between Putin and Erdogan in the last sentence.)

 

[Jayjay]

The fact is, people in Eastern Europe are way less ignorant than you. And they do not support this NATO war on Russia.

When did NATO invade Russia again? I must have missed that.

2014 and 2008.

I checked the dates. You're dead wrong. No invasion occurred.

NATO definitely started both wars. And if consider Sevastopol Oblast to be Russian territory, which it was, then NATO invasion has technically occurred as well.

OK, so why hasn’t Putin attacked other NATO nations? Is he a pussy?

Not only has Putin not attacked other NATO countries, he's pulling troops and missiles away from bases in Kaliningrad and Russia's north-western border. If NATO was a threat, or if Putin was afraid of NATO invasion in imminent future, there would be no reason to do this.

Someone posted a few days ago a video of a captured soldier from Baltic Sea fleet who had been sent to Ukraine, for example. This despite the fact that American warships are sailing in the Baltic Sea:

US Navy assault ship takes part in Baltic Sea training

ABOARD USS KEARSARGE (AP) — U.S. Navy amphibious assault ship USS Kearsarge is taking part in international training in the Baltic Sea amid Russia's war in Ukraine and tensions in the region.

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