How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[bilby]

That you are completely ignorant of what typically happens when foreign invaders attempt to carve up a nation isn't lost to anyone, by the way.

You are ignorant, not me.

Then I suggest you sue this guy for slander:

I don't know who they are.

I don't have to know every guy on this planet.

No you don't. You only need to know of the well known and significant people in the field under discussion, in order to avoid being ignorant of the field.

If you were watching a discussion of physics, and the first speaker mentioned Hans Bethe and Niels Bohr, and the second said "I don't know who they are", you would have solid grounds for believing that the second speaker is sadly ignorant of the topic at hand, even though he is under no obligation to know "every guy on this planet".

 

[Patooka]

No you don't. You only need to know of the well known and significant people in the field under discussion, in order to avoid being ignorant of the field.

If you were watching a discussion of physics, and the first speaker mentioned Hans Bethe and Niels Bohr, and the second said "I don't know who they are", you would have solid grounds for believing that the second speaker is sadly ignorant of the topic at hand, even though he is under no obligation to know "every guy on this planet".

And yet I can't help but feel such an explanation will fly over barbos' head.

 

[barbos]

No you don't. You only need to know of the well known and significant people in the field under discussion,

OK, I looked them up. They are insignificant people who were responsible for significant and stupid events in history which I am well aware of. I just did not register their names because they are nobodys, which is is kinda the point.

Anyway, it's not relevant here. Because Ukraine was never an Empire. It's an artificial country conjured by a series of illegal annexations and splits of the last century. I is currently run by idiots who sold their "country" to millitary industrial complex of the west. Ukraine has well defined internal boundaries at which it can be safely split to its pre-WW2 state.

Having said that, your western talking heads are actually talking about splitting Russia. What do you have to say about that?

 

[barbos]

No you don't. You only need to know of the well known and significant people in the field under discussion, in order to avoid being ignorant of the field.

If you were watching a discussion of physics, and the first speaker mentioned Hans Bethe and Niels Bohr, and the second said "I don't know who they are", you would have solid grounds for believing that the second speaker is sadly ignorant of the topic at hand, even though he is under no obligation to know "every guy on this planet".

And yet I can't help but feel such an explanation will fly over barbos' head.

His explanation is irrelevant garbage.

 

[barbos]

The fact is, people in Eastern Europe are way less ignorant than you. And they do not support this NATO war on Russia.

When did NATO invade Russia again? I must have missed that.

2014 and 2008. also in 1918, in 19 century also.
NATO countries have been invading Russia since well before NATO was formally established.

 

[Patooka]

The fact is, people in Eastern Europe are way less ignorant than you. And they do not support this NATO war on Russia.

When did NATO invade Russia again? I must have missed that.

2014 and 2008.

I checked the dates. You're dead wrong. No invasion occurred.

 

[lpetrich]

Dmitri on Twitter: "In a rollercoaster of an intercepted call, a serviceman from the 20th Guards Combined Arms Army of the Russian Federation is leaving with the remnants of the platoon to Russia via Donetsk, telling a comrade that there are no more Russian positions around. (vid link)" / Twitter

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter: "️ Governor: Explosion in occupied Svatove kills about 200 Russian troops.
Luhansk Oblast Governor Serhiy Haidai reported on Sept. 18 that approximately 200 Russian occupiers were killed as a result of the earlier explosion in Russian-occupied Svatove." / Twitter
Svatove is SE of Kupyansk and NE of Izyum, and is likely an upcoming target for reconquest.

 

[barbos]

The fact is, people in Eastern Europe are way less ignorant than you. And they do not support this NATO war on Russia.

When did NATO invade Russia again? I must have missed that.

2014 and 2008.

I checked the dates. You're dead wrong. No invasion occurred.

NATO definitely started both wars. And if consider Sevastopol Oblast to be Russian territory, which it was, then NATO invasion has technically occurred as well.

 

[lpetrich]

Romanian foreign minister (former) said out loud what everybody in the Eastern Europe says privately. Ukraine should be split between Russia, Poland, Hungary and Romania. ...

What justification is there for doing that?

Which nations should get which parts of Ukraine and why?

barbos, this seems like Russian propaganda.

 

[bilby]

It's an artificial country

All countries are artificial.

 

[barbos]

Dmitri on Twitter: "In a rollercoaster of an intercepted call, a serviceman from the 20th Guards Combined Arms Army of the Russian Federation is leaving with the remnants of the platoon to Russia via Donetsk, telling a comrade that there are no more Russian positions around. (vid link)" / Twitter

There is no way confirm this garbage.
but here are few observations.
1. It's not Donetsk (Ukrainians are actually getting spanked near Donetsk)
2. The guy answers he is in DNR, which is vague to say the least. Nobody in his right mind would give such a vague answer to the question "Where are you?" It's like saying "I am on planet Earth"
3. The guy is clearly NOT in distress, in fact, he is pretty jovial in the beginning and is not really distressed in the end.
4. Who is he talking to anyway? no way to determine.
5. Russian Military don't talk like that.
6. What was the point of that call?



It's almost certainly ukrainian fiction designed to maintain morale.
#2 is a dead give away. ukro-nazi fiction writers did not want to mention an actual name of the place, because they would be caught lying immediately.

 

[Patooka]

And if consider Sevastopol Oblast to be Russian territory, which it was,

Which it wasn't.

Sevastopol, along with the rest of Crimea, is internationally recognised as part of Ukraine,

 

[barbos]

Which it wasn't.

Actually it was part Russia. at the time of USSR dissolution. Later on its status was never formally determined. It was just left by default as part of the Crimea.

In 1954, under Nikita Khrushchev, both Sevastopol and the remainder of the Crimean peninsula were administratively transferred from being territories within the Russian SFSR to being territories

That's a lie. It was not transferred. It remained part of Russia.
Truth to be told, Crimea itself was not transferred legally, because it required voting by "presidium" which never happened. It also required voting AFTER dissolution of USSR, again, it never happened. Basically it was left hanging and ended up in Ukraine for no apparent reason.
Same thing happened with a number of former soviet republics.

We have been over this million times. No need to repeat BS you keep repeating.

My point is, Romanian Foreign Minister agrees with Putin. Deal with that!

 

[Patooka]

That's a convoluted way of saying, "not part of Russia".

 

[barbos]

That's a convoluted way of saying, "not part of Russia".

Romanian Foreign Minister says "It is part of Russia and should be part of Russia along with a lot more"

Also, The West can be pretty flexible when it comes to borders - Kosovo.
It is flexible even when it comes to borders of Russia.

 

[barbos]

So, Romanian Foreign Minister (former). Any comments about that?
Have nothing to say? Same way you had nothing to say about Ukraine shelling Nuclear plant? or detention center with their own POWs? Or their own railroad station?

Have you commented on Amnesty International report yet? no? why not?

 

[Patooka]

It is flexible even when it comes to borders of Russia.

You still haven't pointed out a single part of Russia that was invaded by "The West", "NATO", "Nazis" or any other deluded fantasy you have been peddling. When did the West place foreign troops on Russian soil? Answer; they didn't.

Once again Russia is acting like the abusive husband yelling at his wife, "Look what you made me do!".

So, Romanian Foreign Minister (former). Any comments about that?

Yes. It's not the first time you've posted something without backing it up. I've got another comment - I doubt it will be the last. Kinda like that Canadian General whom you were convinced was working undercover for NATO to support Nazis.

I've even got a third comment. No one is going to believe you anymore unless you show receipts with your assertions Mr "Putin will never invade Ukraine".

 

[barbos]

You still haven't pointed out a single part of Russia that was invaded by "The West", "NATO"

It can't literally invade yet. Closest they can do is to support proxy conflicts and economic wars.
But western TV talking heads do talk about invasion already, so.......

I understand it's above your pay grade to understand, but NATO/EU/US talking heads don't actually want a War with Russia. They want bigger salaries. It's economy, stupid!

Again, Romanian Foreign Minister!

 

[Jayjay]

Romanian foreign minister (former) said out loud what everybody in the Eastern Europe says privately. Ukraine should be split between Russia, Poland, Hungary and Romania. He basically agreed with Putin speech about Ukraine being not being a real county.

No, he didn't say that Ukraine should be split. He said that Ukraine should give back certain parts to each of the countries: Crimea and Donbas to Russia, Galicia to Poland, Transcarpathia to Hungary and some region that I don't remember to Romania. Even though his comments were disgusting, nothing on the level of Putin's imperialist interpretation of history.

Besides, he's wrong. Poland doesn't want Galicia back, and Hungary and Romania have also accepted Ukraine's borders and sovereignty.

Ukraine should be split between Russia, Poland, Hungary and Romania.

Mark Sykes and François Georges-Picot approve of such idiocy.

I don't know who they are. But that's what everyone in Eastern Europe thinks.

No, they don't. According to this poll, for example, more people in all eastern European countries blame Russia than either West or Ukraine:

I don't know who they are. But that's what everyone in Eastern Europe thinks.

Ukraine is in Eastern Europe. I doubt they think the same way. Or Estonia. Or even Poland for that matter.

That you are completely ignorant of what typically happens when foreign invaders attempt to carve up a nation isn't lost to anyone, by the way.

Actually, Poland pretty much accepted that they are getting back their chunk.

Nonsense. Poland and Ukraine have no border disputes, and are closer than ever, which of course pisses Putin off because he would like the formerly occupied territories to fight amongst each other rather than Russia.

I think you'll have a hard time finding anyone in Poland who wants to invade Ukraine to restore Polish lands.

And don't confuse Baltic State political class (on State Department payrol) and regular people. I happened to have distant relatives there too.

You only have relatives there because of centuries of force Russification and occupation, that has left Russian-speaking ethnic minorities that are now being used by Kremlin either as a pretext to meddle in the affairs of sovereign countries, or as 5th column by feeding them with Russian propaganda.

The fact is, people in Eastern Europe are way less ignorant than you. And they do not support this NATO war on Russia.

Because there is no such war. Only Ukraine's defensive war against Russian invasion. And yes, people in Eastern Europe are generally less ignorant than western europeans as to what it's like to live under Russia's thumb. That's why they want Ukraine to win.

 

[Jayjay]

So, Romanian Foreign Minister (former). Any comments about that?

So what? One guy's misinformed opinion. And emphasis is on former. He doesn't represent anyone but himself.

Have nothing to say? Same way you had nothing to say about Ukraine shelling Nuclear plant?

You haven't actually shown when Ukraine has allegedly shelled that plant, despite being asked multiple times. I'm assuming that it never happened until you cough up some concrete evidence.

BTW, what about Russian missile strikes near South Ukraine NPP yesterday? Are you saying those were bombs by Ukraine too?

Ukraine says Russia strikes Pivdennoukrainsk nuclear power plant, reactors undamaged

Russian troops struck the Pivdennoukrainsk nuclear power plant in Ukraine's southern Mykolaiv region early on Monday but its reactors have not been damaged and are working normally, Ukraine's state nuclear company Energoatom said.

www.reuters.com

or detention center with their own POWs?

According to best available evidence, it was a Russian false flag. Not a single thing about that strike points to Ukraine. Feel free to dig up my old post about it and continue arguing, but I know from past experience that you have trouble with actual evidence (just like you did with the Kharkiv city hall strike, Kramatorsk railway station hit, Mariupol maternity war, Bucha massacre, MH17, and almost every other fake story you get from Russian propaganda channels) so my prediction is that you will run away like a coward again when confronted.

But you'll always come back with these assertions, even after being proven 100% wrong a thousand times before.

Have you commented on Amnesty International report yet? no? why not?

What about it? War is messy. Buildings provide cover. Shit happens. And Russia has admitted it does the same thing.