How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[barbos]

What I care about is how to stop the war;

That's easy, just tell Elensky to stop.
Problem is, US neocons don't want war to stop.

Your side has committed to hanging all members of the Ukranian government. When Russian troops take over a Ukranian village, your side rapes, kills, and loots whatever they want. Your side has made a terrible mistake, you've given the Ukrainians no choice but to fight. They are fighting for their lives. For their country. For their future. What is your side fighting for?

Where did you get this information?

 

[barbos]

We can get them from friendly countries such as Ukraine and others

We who? Don't speak for Europe. They want russian resources, so much so that they are dreaming about splitting Russia into parts so they can rob more easily.
Of course that piece of shit polish cunt sucks at geography, otherwise she would know that Europe would get shit if they split Russia.

What are you talking about splitting up Russia? That's crazy talk. People want Russians to return home. We don't need to invade Russia. Your side is destroying Russia for us.

Well, EU Parliament organized a conference about that. And US think tanks have been openly talking about that too, for quite some time now.
So, yeah, neocons no longer hide their dreams.

You people are remarkably uninformed.

 

[Harry Bosch]

We can get them from friendly countries such as Ukraine and others

We who? Don't speak for Europe. They want russian resources, so much so that they are dreaming about splitting Russia into parts so they can rob more easily.
Of course that piece of shit polish cunt sucks at geography, otherwise she would know that Europe would get shit if they split Russia.

What are you talking about splitting up Russia? That's crazy talk. People want Russians to return home. We don't need to invade Russia. Your side is destroying Russia for us.

Well, EU Parliament organized a conference about that. And US think tanks have been openly talking about that too, for quite some time now.
So, yeah, neocons no longer hide their dreams.

You people are remarkably uninformed.

I hate to tell you this, but we don't need your resources. Your side cut off gas and oil to the Europe. Your mistake. Personally, I don't think that we (when I say we I mean the countries that are friendly to each other and follow international law) should use any resources with bandit countries that don't follow international law. Europe is getting along fine without your resources.

 

[barbos]

I hate to tell you this, but we don't need your resources. Your side cut off gas and oil to the Europe.

No, not my side. Your side. Your side sabotaged Nord Stream. Your side put price limits.
Your side put sanctions on oil-gas equipment. Having said that, EU buys gas which goes through Ukraine and ..... russian LNG by the sea.
I hate to repeat it, but you are remarkably ininformed.
Having said that, I support cutting all trade with EU. Of course that would be illegal and simply not possible in some cases. But I think this is a right direction in my opinion.
Russia needs regime change in EU and US.

By the way. I recently read an article about russian lumber. Apparently this war allowed to bring some order to that trade.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I hate to tell you this, but we don't need your resources. Your side cut off gas and oil to the Europe.

No, not my side. Your side. Your side sabotaged Nord Stream. Your side put price limits.
Your side put sanctions on oil-gas equipment. Having said that, EU buys gas which goes through Ukraine and ..... russian LNG by the sea.
I hate to repeat it, but you are remarkably ininformed.
Having said that, I support cutting all trade with EU. Of course that would be illegal and simply no possible in some cases. But I think this is a right direction in my opinion.
Russia needs regime change in EU and US.

By the way. I recently read an article about russian lumber. Apparently this war allowed to bring some order to that trade.

On this, we agree: no trade with Russia. The west should do everything we can to shut off exports of technology and chips to Russia. Peaceful countries should only trade with each other. It will be painful, but in the long run we'll be far better off getting off Russian resources.

 

[Jayjay]

Ukrainian army maybe so-and-so, and losing rapidly. But I'm still amazed at how good Ukrainians are at their propaganda.

Take these two videos:





The music choices are just golden.

Why do you keep saying this shit? They’re not losing rapidly.

In the grand scheme of things, no, but locally around Bakhmut the Ukrainian defenses collapsed and they're struggling to stabilize them. Bakhmut will probably be lost.

Progress on either side isn't linear. There could be months of no movement, despite heavy fighting, as was the case most of the time last year. Then suddenly one side makes a breakthrough. I think this is because we don't really see the attrition happening from the outside. We just see the result when one side, in this case Ukraine, lost too many fighters and couldn't hold the line anymore.

It’s the Russians who can’t do shit. Wagner is done for, and now it’s back to regular Army - the same ones that got kicked out of Kiev and Kharkiv last year and ran away from Kherson. And they aren’t even close to taking Bakhmut. Even if they eventually do, it won’t do them much good. The eventual arrival of further western aid will fuck the Russians up all over again.

Wagner doesn't seem to show any signs of stopping. But they can only attack in one place at a time. The regular Russian army hasn't been able to do much in recent months.

The western tanks and IFVs aren't coming until closer to summer, but the Russian counter-attack could happen anytime now. If we're lucky, it has already started, in Vuhledar, and just happens to be so very pathetic that it's indistinguishable from their normal everyday fuckups. But I personally think there will be a push before February 24th in Luhansk to recapture some of the lost territory.

 

[barbos]

On this, we agree: no trade with Russia. The west should do everything we can to shut off exports of technology and chips to Russia.

You forgot about China which is close to getting their own EUV scanner.
By the way, a little bit of trivia for you. Central piece of EUV technology was technically stolen by ASML from...... Russia. So there would have been no 3-7nm chips without russians.

So, Russia can survive without ASML but I doubt EU can survive without cheap russian gas-oil, uranium, timber, wheat, aluminum, palladium, nickel, titanium, ......

 

[SLD]

The real failure is not in Ukraine, but in the western world. This is a golden opportunity to eliminate Russia as a threat once and for all

I agree, and you should have started with that. Destroy Russia, kill the russians, and take all their oil-gas and other natural resources.

The dissolution of the Russian Federation is far less dangerous than leaving it ruled by criminals

The invasion of Ukraine is a direct continuation of Russia’s imperial and colonial policies; policies that never disappeared. Russia’s war of aggression against Ukraine has been coupled with a propaganda campaign denying the very existence of a Ukrainian nation, genocide being actively committed...

www.euractiv.com

There are no such things as Russian gas, oil, aluminium, coal, uranium, diamonds, grain, forests, gold, etc. All such resources are Tatar, Bashkir, Siberian, Karelian, Oirat, Circassian, Buryat, Sakha, Ural, Kuban, Nogai

And who the fuck are these Siberians and Kubans?

By the way, I would like to know what Canada, Australia and US think about this great Idea.
You have not thought that through you polish nazi lady.

Eliminate them as a viable military threat. That’s all I said. After that, and if you truly democratize, we will be happy to welcome you back into the brotherhood of nations. Until then, Russia can FOAD.

 

[barbos]

Eliminate them as a viable military threat. That’s all I said

Sure. Unfortunately, that's not what neocons say.

After that, and if you truly "democratize"

and then steal everything.

 

[SLD]

Ukrainian army maybe so-and-so, and losing rapidly. But I'm still amazed at how good Ukrainians are at their propaganda.

Take these two videos:





The music choices are just golden.

Why do you keep saying this shit? They’re not losing rapidly.

In the grand scheme of things, no, but locally around Bakhmut the Ukrainian defenses collapsed and they're struggling to stabilize them. Bakhmut will probably be lost.

Progress on either side isn't linear. There could be months of no movement, despite heavy fighting, as was the case most of the time last year. Then suddenly one side makes a breakthrough. I think this is because we don't really see the attrition happening from the outside. We just see the result when one side, in this case Ukraine, lost too many fighters and couldn't hold the line anymore.

It’s the Russians who can’t do shit. Wagner is done for, and now it’s back to regular Army - the same ones that got kicked out of Kiev and Kharkiv last year and ran away from Kherson. And they aren’t even close to taking Bakhmut. Even if they eventually do, it won’t do them much good. The eventual arrival of further western aid will fuck the Russians up all over again.

Wagner doesn't seem to show any signs of stopping. But they can only attack in one place at a time. The regular Russian army hasn't been able to do much in recent months.

The western tanks and IFVs aren't coming until closer to summer, but the Russian counter-attack could happen anytime now. If we're lucky, it has already started, in Vuhledar, and just happens to be so very pathetic that it's indistinguishable from their normal everyday fuckups. But I personally think there will be a push before February 24th in Luhansk to recapture some of the lost territory.

Wagner has shown signs of stopping. They’re spent. Ordinary units have taken over around Bakhmut. The Russian attacks are making very small gains, so what if they are? A few kilometers advance isn’t going to break the Ukrainians. But you are correct, the western aide is too slow in coming. That will mean a stalemate instead of a Ukrainian victory. But a stalemate hurts Russia in the long run.

 

[SLD]

Eliminate them as a viable military threat. That’s all I said

Sure.

After that, and if you truly "democratize"

and then steal everything.

You deserve it at this point.

 

[barbos]

Eliminate them as a viable military threat. That’s all I said

Sure.

After that, and if you truly "democratize"

and then steal everything.

You deserve it at this point.

And what do you deserve after Iraq/Syria/Yugoslavia/Libya/Vietnam/South America?
You do realize, that, EU/US/NATO are alone in this? No other country truly supports your unprovoked aggression against Russia.
And even EU is not uniform in this, especially their population.

US empire is crumbling.

 

[SLD]

A good article on how the West should respond:

How to Get a Breakthrough in Ukraine

The case against incrementalism.

www.foreignaffairs.com

pretty much give them everything, HIMARS, MiG’s, Reapers, Patriots, and far, far more tanks. Tougher sanctions. Choke off their access to the west entirely. Any business with Russia loses business with the West. Force them to choose between a failing economy or the rest of the world.

Incremental aid that we’ve been giving will only prolong the war and create a stalemate. There is only one way the Russians are leaving Ukraine - in a body bag. Give Ukraine the tools for victory and the war will end.

 

[barbos]

Googled russian timber and that's what I got.

Does the US get lumber from Russia?
While some U.S. importers are sourcing alternative materials elsewhere, others say they have no choice. In the case of wood imports, Russia's dense birch forests create such hard, strong timber that most American wooden classroom furniture, and much home flooring, is made from it.

No soup birch and flooring for you!

By the way, I vaguely remember that hockey sticks are made from birch. So no NHL for you!

 

[SLD]

Eliminate them as a viable military threat. That’s all I said

Sure.

After that, and if you truly "democratize"

and then steal everything.

You deserve it at this point.

And what do you deserve after Iraq/Syria/Yugoslavia/Libya/Vietnam/South America?
You do realize, that, EU/US/NATO are alone in this? No other country truly supports your unprovoked aggression against Russia.
And even EU is not uniform in this, especially their population.

Seriously, what has Russia accomplished in this war? It has failed to demilitarize Ukraine, failed to “de-nazify” it, failed to fracture NATO, failed to stop NATO expansion, and utterly destroyed it’s own military capabilities. You’ve lost thousands of armored vehicles, your flagship, numerous fighter jets and other military aircraft. You’re soon going to have to worry about defending your other borders. Most of all, you’ve lost the respect your military had in the world. You’ve proven that your country is nothing but a paper bear. You’ve brought shame and condemnation on your country that will last until this generation is dead and gone - 80+ years from now. When people talk bout Russia, they will talk about how it’s a rogue nation that couldn’t subdue a much weaker neighbor. The Russian people will be thought of as nothing but brutish orcs. You probably will lose control of your oil - not because the west will take it over, but because your country will be fractured so badly after this that they won’t be able to develop it further. China is your real concern. You will be so weak and dependent on them as to turn yourself into their vassal state. They are the ones who will take your oil.

seriously, this is the stupidest thing your country has done since Nicky went to war with Japan.

 

[barbos]

Seriously, what has Russia accomplished in this war? It has failed to demilitarize Ukraine,

Russia demilitarized Ukraine long time ago. It's demilitarizing NATO now.

 

[barbos]

You’ve lost thousands of armored vehicles, your flagship, numerous fighter jets and other military aircraft

Yes, according to Ukraine Bob ukrainian army is closing in on Moscow.

Tell me what part of "You are being lied to" you do not understand?
Yes, talking heads are lying to you.

 

[barbos]

seriously, this is the stupidest thing your country has done since Nicky went to war with Japan

No, it's a stupidest thing YOUR country did ever.

 

[Elixir]

It’s easy to see who has been lied to, and who has swallowed the lies.
Barbos believes whatever he is told. The rest of us require evidence. The evidence makes Russia’s stupidity, cruelty and impotence more than obvious.

 

[Jayjay]

Eliminate them as a viable military threat. That’s all I said

Sure.

After that, and if you truly "democratize"

and then steal everything.

You deserve it at this point.

And what do you deserve after Iraq/Syria/Yugoslavia/Libya/Vietnam/South America?
You do realize, that, EU/US/NATO are alone in this? No other country truly supports your unprovoked aggression against Russia.
And even EU is not uniform in this, especially their population.

US empire is crumbling.

Eu and US don't support aggression against Russia (and certainly not "unprovoked" aggression, given that the current military support and sanctions are entirely a reaction to Russian invasion). We're only helping Ukraine defend itself. If Ukraine somehow managed to drive Russia out of its own territory, and for some inexplicable reason continued to march over the border, western support would stop in a heartbeat.

Like it or not, the same principles of sovereignty and territorial integrity that we defend for Ukraine also apply to Russia. The musings of individuals about splitting Russia apart or enacting regime change are not seriously pursued by any nation. If Russia withdrew from Ukraine, the war could be over in 24 hours.