How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[barbos]

I think if Ukraine can't regain most of the land it lost, then it's a loss. But at the same time, one could consider it a win that Ukraine remains an independent nation and hasn't lost the entire southern Black Sea coast for example. Certainly, after the war, Ukraine will have to concoct a national narrative where they "won" regardless.

Ukrainian regime have talked trash for way too long to easily switch to something less ambitious.
It has to be regime change. And even in that case it would still be hard. Zele-nazies has cleaned all the opposition.

The Ukranians did managed to defeat the orcs and drive them out of Kharkiv. And defeat the massive Russian attack on Kyiv. Ukranians pushed Russian forces out of Kherson. Bahkmut has become a Russian death trap. Keep blustering.

No, they did not manage anything substantive there. You parrot NATO-nazi propaghanda.
Russian anti-nazi coalition forces simply left the area and then bombed the shit out of NATO nazis.

 

[barbos]

Speaking of the corrupt and criminal western media. They are starting to see writings on the wall and becoming less and less "optimistic" and release even anti-ukrainian articles. Some are funnily indirect.
Reuters I think released an interview with ukrainian soldier with a call-sign "Adolf" That's a weird thing to mention in the article.

 

[barbos]

Anybody watching "debate" youtube I posted?
Bjorn reminds me you guys. Well, caricature of you.

 

[barbos]

And about this never happening counter-offensive.
Apparently (it was slowly leaked). It was originally planned last year spring. Then delayed and delayed
And then finally if was really planned after "successful" Kherson-Kharkov campaign in the fall.
American planners were harrowed by ukrainian losses so they cancelled it.
Your propaganda lies to you.

 

[barbos]

Wagner boss says the Kremlin won't talk to him anymore after he complained that Russia isn't giving his troops enough ammo

Yevgeny Prigozhin, once thought to be a close Putin ally, said on Thursday that all of his direct lines to the Kremlin have stopped responding.

www.businessinsider.com

He spoke out again a few days ago and said they could not continue much longer without more ammo.

Anyone who follows news would know that Prigozhin says a lot of outrageous and simply false stuff.
He is a weird dude.

 

[barbos]

Victoria Nuland is one such example.

Speaking of obsession...

Yes, she IS obsessed with destroying Russia.
Some say it has something to do with her grandparrents being from Odessa or something.
I don't see the connection. But I heard it somewhere.
Yes, that corrupt cunt and her corrupt piece of shit husband are obsessed.
She pretty much alone controls foreign affairs of this administration.
She decided to bomb NordStream.

 

[SLD]

Wagner boss says the Kremlin won't talk to him anymore after he complained that Russia isn't giving his troops enough ammo

Yevgeny Prigozhin, once thought to be a close Putin ally, said on Thursday that all of his direct lines to the Kremlin have stopped responding.

www.businessinsider.com

He spoke out again a few days ago and said they could not continue much longer without more ammo.

Anyone who follows news would know that Prigozhin says a lot of outrageous and simply false stuff.
He is a weird dude.

And he’s losing the war for you.

The White House assessed on May 1 that Russian forces have suffered 100,000 causalities—80,000 wounded and 20,000 killed—in fighting for Bakhmut since January 2023. US National Security Council Spokesperson John Kirby announced that half of the 20,000 killed in action were Wagner Group fighters. Kirby also assessed that Russia’s offensive on Bakhmut has failed.

Wagner Group fighters and other Russian forces are struggling to maintain their pace of offensive operations in Bakhmut. Ukrainian Eastern Group of Forces Commander Colonel General Oleksandr Syrskyi stated that Russian forces in Bakhmut conducted numerous attacks but failed to advance, whereas Ukrainian forces conducted counterattacks and recaptured some Russian positions. A local Ukrainian commander stated that Ukrainian forces have regained the battlefield initiative in some areas of Bakhmut, and Russian forces have failed to cut Ukrainian logistics lines into Bakhmut. Ukrainian Eastern Group of Forces Spokesperson Colonel Serhiy Cherevaty stated that Russian snipers from an unspecified special counterterror service are operating in Bakhmut, suggesting that the Russian military command may be reallocating additional irregular military units to the Bakhmut front to compensate for overtired Wagner forces and ineffective Russian force organization in the area.

 

[barbos]

And he’s losing the war for you.

The White House assessed on May 1 that Russian forces have suffered 100,000 causalities—80,000 wounded and 20,000 killed—in fighting for Bakhmut since January 2023.

LOL, White House assessed, LOL
White House is a bunch of filthy liars.

 

[barbos]

The edit grace period is, what, 60 minutes? I was under a wrong impression of what happened for almost an hour, oh my!

There was no russian edits.

Yes, there were.

View attachment 43137
The one on the left is the original. The one from the right is what was disseminated in Russian channels.

This could have been done by intelligence services, or just enthusiastic volunteers. Whoever it was, they wanted to gloat about the leak, but knew that most Russians are easily gullible so they massaged the numbers a bit before doing so. It's not like you and your friends from the youtube comments section would ever do any fact checking.

Disseminated in russian channels does not mean russian government edited anything,
It could be some fat finnish drunk in the basement. Or even Victoria Nuland.
Having said that, these numbers are BS anyway. Even american side admits that.



Russian government is not responsible for all the garbage in the Telegram.
You need to provide actual evidence. Such as one I provided in the case of BBC participation in staged chemical attacks in Syria. Or AlfaBank-Trump story. Or staged city hall attack in Har'kov.

 

[barbos]

It’s quite possible that Barbos doesn’t believe the shit Putin spews. It could be a cover. He could fear monitoring by the authorities and arrest.

Well, I would simply not post anything. Like you do.
Yes, I noticed that your gang ignores serious discussion.

 

[zorq]

If anyone else was as confused as I was by Barbos's recent mentions of Alpha-bank I thought I would research it a bit and break it down because it isn't exactly a top headline story that anyone would necessarily pay attention to.

The TLDR is that this particular controversy isn't resolved at all and is still largely a mystery, and it has been consistently reported as such in the media (even by anti-Trump commentator Rachel Madow). An unusual link between the Russia affiliated Alfa-Bank and a 2016 Firm affiliated with Trump has neither been thoroughly corroborated nor has it been shown to be fraudulent.


So back in the Sumer of 2016 in the lead up to the election, some computer log files were discovered which showed that some computer servers owned by Alfa-Bank tried to make a ton of requests to connect with servers owned by a mass media affiliated branch of the Trump- organization. It is still unknown what the content of these communications was. These logs were discovered by some computer scientists with unusual access to the DNS logs and were submitted to the FBI who subsequently started an investigation. These logs were also mentioned in the (much maligned yet never quite refuted by Trumpists) Steele Dossier. Both the Trump-Org and Alfa-Bank denied they had been communicating at all. This story about the Alfa-bank computer connection made a little bit of news in 2017 and a little more in the lead up to Trump's first impeachment.

Anyway This was embarrassing to both Trump and Alfa-Bank and so Trump recruited his Justice department to have an investigator assigned to investigate the investigation into this Alfa-Bank computer connection, and Alfa-Bank started some lawsuits in Florida and Pennsylvania to try to uncover the identities of the computer scientists who discovered the mysterious internet traffic. Those computer scientists are only known publicly by the aliases "Max" and "Tea Leaves" and they were/are the focus of Attorney General William Barr's man John Durham and Alfa-Bank's high price lawyers for years now.

John Durham announced to the press in 2021 that he was looking to charge the two computer scientists with crimes including falsifying the data, and did present an indictment to a cyber security lawyer for "lying to the FBI." But come a couple years later, nothing has come of it. And when you think about it, the data is so abstruse that it really isn't worth trying to falsify. The data is fishy, but what is more fishy is millions of dollars shelled out by Alfa-Bank on lawyers and the significant resources dedicated by Trump to figure out who the scientists are and how they detected the link in the first place.

It is kind of a nothing burger story that still hasn't been resolved. The (anonymous) computer scientists insist the data is real (and reproduceable) and admit that it doesn't actually indicate much, but Trump aligned and Alfa-Bank aligned sources insist that it is fake and so important that they won't stop until they discover who those scientists are so that they can be punished and how they found that fake data ... so that Russia can avoid getting caught with their pants down again?

So... does Rachel Maddow need to apologize for something related to Alfa-Bank? I don't think so. I don't watch her show all the time, but judging from the couple clips I just saw of her on YouTube just now talking about this story, she doesn't make any damning claims regarding Alfa-Bank or Trump. Further, Based on the facts, the mysterious connection between the Alfa-Bank server and the Trump-Org server has never been disproven.

So I guess the TLDRTLDR is that Barbos just has his knickers in a bunch about imaginary BS again.

 

[zorq]

Victoria Nuland is one such example.

Speaking of obsession...

Yes, she IS obsessed with destroying Russia.
Some say it has something to do with her grandparrents being from Odessa or something.
I don't see the connection. But I heard it somewhere.
Yes, that corrupt cunt and her corrupt piece of shit husband are obsessed.
She pretty much alone controls foreign affairs of this administration.
She decided to bomb NordStream.

An evil empire that willfully commits the atrocities Russia does, not out of necessity, but out of callous greed and cruel disregard for human life deserves to be destroyed. The Russian people don't deserve to be destroyed, but yes, Russia deserves to be destroyed.

If you cared for the lives of Ukranians dying in a cruel murderous Russian rampage you would take action against Russia. If you cared about the Russian children sent to die in trenches in Ukraine you would take action against the Russian government. But you don't. You cheer for dead Ukranians. You malign them with ridiculously false nicknames.

Are you a fool? Tricked by the silly and easily detected lies of Russia? Or are you of the same mettle as the empire you worship?

Do you deserve destruction too?

I hope you don't get what you deserve.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Russia in tatters I say, in tatters!

What I saw was a video taken by a sad-looking guy who sounded a bit puzzled at all of the new store names and a lot of closed shops between the open ones. The new stores seem to be ones recently set up by the Chinese, but this is only a year after the sanctions really kicked in. Will they be profitable enough to remain open in six months, or will they be subsidized for show purposes? The mall didn't look all that busy, but that could just be the time of day. The narrator tried to show a large crowd lining up for food at the fast food joint that had replaced MacDonalds, but he was actually standing behind a crowd lined up for the ATMs, with the food joint being behind it. When he went around the crowd, the crowd buying food was somewhat less impressive. He seemed puzzled that the KFC was shuttered, claiming that he knew of others that were open. I got the feeling that the narrator could have shown a lot more closed and shuttered stores, but he was obviously hyping the ones that were open and seemed to be operating normally.

Anyway, it would be interesting to see the same mall a year from now. This is the most famous shopping mall in Russia. Will all of the stores be stocking Chinese goods? Right now, it seems that the major Western business left is Auchan, a French hypermarket that is resisting calls for it to leave. I don't know how long Auchan will last there, as there are calls now for boycotts all over the West. However, they claim to have 230 stores in Russia, so I can see why they are reluctant to leave for the time being. Time will tell. The French retailer Leroy Merlin was also resisting pressure to leave Russia, and it has now announced that it will do so.

French retailer Leroy Merlin says it will exit Russia​

War and inflation cost Auchan dearly​

Rebranded KFC Opens in Russia Following Chicken Chain’s Departure Over Ukraine​

G-7 nations consider outright ban on exports to Russia, Bloomberg says​

Most European shops are stocked with Chinese goods. What many people in Europe don't understand is that Chinese knock-offs are often made in the same factories as the genuine articles. By the same people. China is corrupt to an absolutely bizarre degree.

A friend of mine is a high level manager of H&M. One of Sweden's biggest international clothing chains. They have a system of internal secret police to spy on their own Chinese and Bangladeshi managers. Because they simply don't understand that agreements made actually need to be as agreed upon. When the Bangladeshi factory boss is told by their Swedish manager not to use child labour. What the Bangladeshi boss hears is "when you use child labour, hide it". It simply doesn't occur to them that the Swedish manager is serious. The corruption is so ingrained, at every step, that the manager is continually looking for an opening to exploit. They don't understand the extreme blow-back for H&M, using child labour, can cause in the West. It's simply a question of cat'n'mouse. H&M uses their internal secret police. The local managers try not to get caught. And if they do, fair game. They resign, they think, with their dignity intact. All of China works the same way.

The ONLY thing the Chinese government cares about is that Western brands that use Chinese factories feel they get a good deal and their money's worth. If that same factory also does some business on the side, the Chinese authorities do nothing. So they do.

That means that if a Western brand is sanctioned in Russia, China will most likely send the exact same product, made in the same factory, just with another label on it. The only real difference is that the Western brand just loses out from the profit. Long term, this isn't ideal for China, since they want western business. But short term, they have no reason not to do this. These factories are geard to producing these goods anyway. It would be an economic catastrophe for many of the factories to just sit on their hands.
All this means that ordinary Russians are not likely to feel much difference materially, for a long time. And that seems to be what most Russians actually care about. The Russian seizure of Crimea was popular among the Crimeans simply because Putin increased government pay-outs to the locals. The Crimean economy crashed. But they were still better off economically. This is Russia. Putin using oil revenue to by loyalty from the Russian citizens. As long as Putin can deliver, which he so far has been able to, I think he'll be safe.

 

[barbos]

What about France?
Poilice literally beating protesters, Maidan style. Do we overthrow corrupt Macron regime?

By the way. US neocons are currently very unhappy with Macron visit to China, just saying

 

[barbos]

So I guess the TLDRTLDR is that Barbos just has his knickers in a bunch about imaginary BS again.

Not imaginary.
Clinton gang concocted ridiculous conspiracy theory about link between Trump and AlfaBank.
Anyone with any background in IT would immediately see through that garbage. Lots and lots of pro-hillary people were lying through their teeth. Some "experts" I have very little doubt were paid to comment positively on that theory.
I immediately suggested that AlfaBank could and should sue the hell out of that scum. It's a slamdunk in any unbiased court.
And they did, but then US started a war with Russia. If I were AlfaBank I would not leave that. In fact if I were Putin I would have ordered them to sue. In russian courts, american courts, everywhere. Scum like Hillary Clinton and Rachel Maddow and the whole democratic party should pay for their crimes against Russian Federation.

 

[barbos]

the mysterious connection between the Alfa-Bank server and the Trump-Org server has never been disproven.

You don't get it, do you? There is nothing to disprove there. There is absolutely no chance of it being anything other than lame attempt to smear Russia and Trump, none, period. They literally peed on yout boots, You saw it, security camera recorded it and they called it a rain.
I can prove in any court.
In fact, I should sue Maddow, because her shitty reports are literally insult to my intelligence.

Yeah, I remember they dragged the DNS guy (the one who wrote it) and made him say "yeah, it looks suspicious"
Unless he is senile (which he is not) he lied.
Fuck you, you lying piece of shit! FSB should arrest him the first chance they get and send him to russian prison to the rest of his worthless life.

 

[barbos]

Western Media-Government Complex are a bunch of filthy liars. The rest of the world knows it and your media-government complex know they know.
Yes, the rest of the world is not with you, they are with Russia and China now.

 

[barbos]

Your leaders are idiots who know nothing, understand nothing. They just read teleprompter and pretend they know something. Kamala Harris? give me a a break. I know cashier who have more common sense than her.
Trump? - fucking imbecile.
Jungle Joseph Borel? clueless.
Hillary Clinton? that cunt admitted she has no opinion on anything.

Speaking of IT, remember Peregruzka incident? Dumb cunt did not follow it through. She was actually kinda right, and Lavrov was not entirely correct. Dumb cunt let it go without any "investigation".

 

[DrZoidberg]

What about France?
Poilice literally beating protesters, Maidan style. Do we overthrow corrupt Macron regime?

By the way. US neocons are currently very unhappy with Macron visit to China, just saying

It's interesting that pro-Putin-boy now suddenly has a problem with corruption.

Europeans are delusional about pensions and retirement. The whole system is predicated on the fact that people with ill health forced to work is a danger to themselves and others. It's not a medal or reward for managing to hang in there. Since medical research and just healthy lifestyles allows people to live a healthy life far beyond just half a century ago. Not only being alive. But being healthy.

Europeans seem to think it's some sort of basic human right to fuck around in their 60'ies and live a jet set life. It's bizarre. Especially for (I think) all European countries where pensions are paid for by the state. All European countries is inexorably being pushed toward a situation where a low pension age causes economic crisis.

The IT boom following from the 1980's until now has made us, comparatively, mega wealthy to earlier generations. An hours work today generates as much purchasing powers as six hours in 1970. That's a crazy high difference. That means we're now accustomed to a much higher quality of life. To maintain that quality of life, we need to work longer. Basically, removing people from the workforce is much more expensive now than it was in the 1970'ies when the current rules were put in place.

The calculus is this, either we accept a worse standard of living and continue with these low pension ages, or we keep our standard of living and raise the age of pension.

Politicians all over Europe are trying to find ways to talk people into seeing reason. But we (European voters) have our head in the sand and just refuse to see reason.

Macron is just doing what needs to be done. The problem is that he's using draconic measures to do so. Article 49 of the French Constitution is a tool intended to be used to break a deadlock in the government. Not intended to force through unpopular measures. That's abusing the power. It can be compared to the US presidential executive order. Obama was allowed to use it to force through Obamacare. But it was a violation of the intent of the law.

 

[SLD]

It’s quite possible that Barbos doesn’t believe the shit Putin spews. It could be a cover. He could fear monitoring by the authorities and arrest.

Well, I would simply not post anything. Like you do.
Yes, I noticed that your gang ignores serious discussion.

Serious discussion? OK.

Tell us then about your plans to take Bakhmut and how they are going? Tell us why Russia attacked Kiev directly last year and then withdrew? That was seriously part of your plan? Or is your military that incompetent? Was it really your plan to take Kherson and then run back across the river? Or are your soldiers really just cowards?

How many years are you going to take to wrap this special military operation up? How many more Russians are going to die?