Gonna have to agree with Tom on this one. I'd reframe it not as FOX News but "Rupert fucking Murdoch's disinformation silo", but a significant amount of people consider that "news" and they are taken seriously by the Presidential Press Secretary. I wish it were different but there we are.
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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?
- Thread starter Harry Bosch
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TomC
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Also, what I was responding to was
Which really is extremely similar to current USA media of all sorts.
Conflicting stories in American media is a huge issue. It's not just TV, it's FB and Twitter and every other source out there.
Tom
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Hmm...
The difference here is that conflicting stories in Russian media is a deliberate tactic by the state which effectively controls ALL the media. At least...the traditional media. Russia literally has state TV, state radio, state newspapers and websites, and if you want to have a media outlet, you've gotta go through the state.
It is easy to criticize the American media for putting out conflicting stories, but it's not because the government sat down MSNBC and Fox and said "we need you to create confusion and chaos. MSNBC, here's the narrative you will sell. Fox, here's your marching orders."
I mean, the Russian government has troll farms and bots flooding social media and comment sections pushing the state's narratives overseas, and in their own country you can't launch a website without a visit from an official seeing if your outfit is putting out the "correct" content.
And they trumpet the "news" part despite being found to be wrong more than right.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
News reporting is supposed to be a contradictory cacaphonus mess. News sources are supposed to wear their biases on their sleeves. This is by design. Only an idiot reads all their news from a single source. That's not what Putin is doing.
What makes people exhausted are a continuous stream of bizarre and outlandish claims. Donald Trump is a master of this. It's the psychological mechanic behind gaslighting in relationships. By continuously flooding the recipient with statements that question basic reality, all values become free floating. The goal isn't to convince the recipient. The goal is to make the recipient insecure about their own beliefs. It's to expand the context to include any fantasy. You make your target/victim waste energy on defending basic reality. Yes, exhausting.
This is what Barbos does here on the forum. Obviously the Ukrainians aren't Nazis. Obviously Putin isn't fighting this war to defend victims of Ukrainian Nazi oppression. It's an absurd claim. Even by engaging with this fantasy narrative, (yes, even when we deny it). Putin is winning. That's what makes us exhausted. I think that's the psychological mechanic of Putin's propaganda.
This is extremely hard to defend against. When we reject a claim as absurd we have to re-iterate it in order to reject it. That adds to the spread of the idea. Helping Putin. Like I am doing now.
What makes people exhausted are a continuous stream of bizarre and outlandish claims. Donald Trump is a master of this. It's the psychological mechanic behind gaslighting in relationships. By continuously flooding the recipient with statements that question basic reality, all values become free floating. The goal isn't to convince the recipient. The goal is to make the recipient insecure about their own beliefs. It's to expand the context to include any fantasy. You make your target/victim waste energy on defending basic reality. Yes, exhausting.
This is what Barbos does here on the forum. Obviously the Ukrainians aren't Nazis. Obviously Putin isn't fighting this war to defend victims of Ukrainian Nazi oppression. It's an absurd claim. Even by engaging with this fantasy narrative, (yes, even when we deny it). Putin is winning. That's what makes us exhausted. I think that's the psychological mechanic of Putin's propaganda.
This is extremely hard to defend against. When we reject a claim as absurd we have to re-iterate it in order to reject it. That adds to the spread of the idea. Helping Putin. Like I am doing now.
Those are the only media consumed by huge fraction of our population.
barbos
Contributor
That's not really true. Senile people know what they are doing in the sense that they are doing what they are thinking.
They merely incapable to hide or moderate their behavior. The part of the brain which does that is simply gone.
barbos
Contributor
That's what YOU are doing.
barbos
Contributor
Obviously? maybe to some dumbass in EU who watch CNN/BBC, or wait scratch BBC out, they are slowly starting to call them nazis.
Yes, absolute majority of the germans were not nazis in 1933, but their government were 100% nazis.
barbos
Contributor
Anybody? I am alone? You really think that?
I understand you probably don't consider 140 million population of Russia capable of thinking, fine.
What about some westerners, you honestly believe that none of them think that and don't have youtube channels saying what they think?
Are you living in a cave with TV which stuck to CNN channel?
barbos
Contributor
Of course neocons are more sophisticated than that. Coercion is never so direct, even in Russia.
In you case, people are simply fired if they go against official narrative. Do you think Rachel Maddow is dumb and does not understand
that she will be fired if she tries to follow up on HER story about AlfaBank?
She knows that her job description does not include "honest journalism".
Media people and government are in the same boat when it comes to a lot of issues, specifically on foreign policy.
Cheerful Charlie
Contributor
Pootie thought he could prevent Ukraine from becoming more Western orientated. He screwed up. Now Ukraine will eventually be set on joining the EU and Nato. Sweden and Finland are now pro-Nato. Nato is no longer asleep. Russia no longer has a safe naval base in Crimea. If any nation has proven to have no clue as to foreign policy, that nation is Russia. The moron neocons are geniuses compared to Pootie and his cretinous siloviki.
barbos
Contributor
Says who?
NATO is losing this war they started. Biden administration is searching for the way out.
Nuland thought economic sanctions would work, then she thought russia would run out of missiles, then she blew up NordStrream.
Nothing worked and US is in situation where they are really planning on Ukraine collapse.
Yes, that's their current scenario they are preferring. NATO can not directly interfere and Ukraine is not capable of an offensive and running out of people.
barbos
Contributor
Neocons are frantically running with ridiculous ideas of freezing out the conflict so Biden can run for reelection.
Russians said "You must be thinking we are dumb?" So the next option is to let Ukraine be defeated. That's it, no other option.
Economical sunctions are not working. Russia is too important for the the third world to sanction. And third world is not buying your garbage about Russia anyway. Look at Modi, Look at Brasil.
Lula was fuming when he waited for your fucking clown to appear. You are fucked. Third World and second World are united against you.
You fucking lost Saudi Arabia. You are losing Taiwan too, not to China, to Taiwan itself.
Russians said "You must be thinking we are dumb?" So the next option is to let Ukraine be defeated. That's it, no other option.
Economical sunctions are not working. Russia is too important for the the third world to sanction. And third world is not buying your garbage about Russia anyway. Look at Modi, Look at Brasil.
Lula was fuming when he waited for your fucking clown to appear. You are fucked. Third World and second World are united against you.
You fucking lost Saudi Arabia. You are losing Taiwan too, not to China, to Taiwan itself.
Cheerful Charlie
Contributor
You have not the foggiest notion about what neocons are. Deignorify yourself.
en.m.wikipedia.org
Project for the New American Century - Wikipedia
barbos
Contributor
It's not me, it's you.
barbos
Contributor
For these who watch CNN. Zele was invited to G7, along with Modi and Lula.
And that piece of shit was supposed to meet with both Modi and Lula.
He met Modi, who apparently lectured him so much that he decided to skip the next lecture from Lula, so he stood him up.
Lula was not too happy about it and immediately (after return to Brasil) called ........ Putin
You can imagine what they were talking about.
You're fucked. China/India/Brasil/Middle East/Africa are with Russia.
Yes, some of them are pretty shady characters (SA, some african countries), but they are not with you. And some of them (SA) are not with you anymore.
The speed with which all this happening is astonishing. China established piece between Iran and Saudi Arabia, imagine that.
And mighty US can not do anything about it.
With few exceptions nobody in the 3rd World ever liked 1st World governments.
And that piece of shit was supposed to meet with both Modi and Lula.
He met Modi, who apparently lectured him so much that he decided to skip the next lecture from Lula, so he stood him up.
Lula was not too happy about it and immediately (after return to Brasil) called ........ Putin
You can imagine what they were talking about.
You're fucked. China/India/Brasil/Middle East/Africa are with Russia.
Yes, some of them are pretty shady characters (SA, some african countries), but they are not with you. And some of them (SA) are not with you anymore.
The speed with which all this happening is astonishing. China established piece between Iran and Saudi Arabia, imagine that.
And mighty US can not do anything about it.
With few exceptions nobody in the 3rd World ever liked 1st World governments.
YOU haven't cited a single fucking media outlet this entire fucking thread my dude.
The rest of the entire world took a vote. It's definitely you, barbos.
barbos
Contributor
I have cited my sources plenty of time. You always ignore them.
OK, I cite Jeffrey Sachs. Are you satisfied enough to ignore him too?