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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

aupmanyav said:
Elixir said:
Sure it does. It can go home, let Ukrainians go home, and live un-bothered forever and ever amen.
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Russia is not at war with Ukraine. It is at war with NATO.
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If Russia were at war with NATO, Moscow would be a pool of slowly cooling radioactive glass.
 
aupmanyav said:
I have always said that it was wrong for NATO to expand its influence.
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You only say that because you are in Putin's corner. As a Putin supporter I can certainly understand why you would think that any country wishing to be free of Russian Hitler's aggression is doing something wrong. To you NATO is just a bogeyman that is threatening your Dictator's control because you are a Putin supporter. You don't need to keep responding. It's pretty clear to everyone that you favor Putin and are against any nation that wishes to be free from Russian Hitler's control.
 
barbos said:
DrZoidberg said:
The good news is that if we manage to stop him, Russia will be broken for ever. It'll fall apart like Austria-Hungary after WW1
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That's not gonna happen. EU and NATO will dissolve sooner than that.
You repeated Hitler's mistake thinking that Russia was weak.
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Russia was weak. We kept you alive.
 
barbos said:
Cheerful Charlie said:
barbos said:
By the way, do you know who New Zeeland sent to Switzerland to meet Elensky? Prison guard!


Russian was an official language of Ukraine, before nazi coup in 2014. The fact you are outraged by that "demand" shows your utter ignorance. Russia was offering great deal to Ukraine in Istanbul, ukrainians said that themselves. And they took it. But then US/UK ordered ther puppets to stop talking and fight.
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Cheerful Charlie said:
And now, due to Russia's abusing the fact many Ukrainians spoke Russia, the Ukrainians are de-Russifying Ukraine. No more Russian language street signs for example.
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That's not what is happening. Ukrainization started in 2014 after nazi coup. That's why russian-speaking regions decided to leave Ukraine in the first place. Now, once Ukraine is fully back in Russia, russian will be once again an official language.
Ukrainian will be allowed to teach, speak and put signs in, but I doubt it will be allowed to be used in official documents.
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They didn't decide to leave. They were taken by military force.
 
Cheerful Charlie said:
Decrepit Russian navy.

.....
One of Russia's most advanced new submarines, which just left Cuba, is "falling apart" with damage on its hull, according to an OSINT analyst.

Marijn Markus, a managing consultant at the Capgemini IT firm, shared four photos of the nuclear-powered Kazan in a LinkedIn post on Monday.

Markus pointed to soundproofing panels "falling off" the front part of the submarine's hull. That would ruin its stealth capabilities, he said, making it "very" loud underwater and causing it to light up on sonar.
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The tiles are actually not that secure on any sub--they're going to be ripped off if the sub commander were to order flank speed.
 
aupmanyav said:
Elixir said:
Duh. Nobody is prohibiting Russia or China from expanding their influence. Doing it militarily violates international law.
Invading a country, destroying its infrastructure, murdering its citizens and planting your flag in their soil is NOT “expansion of influence”. You and Modi would be horrified if equal ”influence” was meted out to Russia.
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Russia does not have options. It is activating its nuclear bases, may give some bombs to North Korea. China is certainly expanding its influence with its money as well as its nuclear pile (it is supposed to be 500 now). Do you think nations at war worry about international law?
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Russia's lack of options is entirely of it's own making. Ukraine is not responsible for the fact that Russia basically bet the country on winning. Fundamentally, bullies work on a culture of fear. People comply because the results of not complying are too bad. A bully who loses will lose much of their power. That doesn't mean the bully is in the right. If Putin loses he's going to lose a lot more republics but Russia as such will remain.
 
bilby said:
DrZoidberg said:
Elixir said:
T.G.G. Moogly said:
It's no different than the Cold War.
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It’s like the Cold War, but with more genocide and Property Damage
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It's still not recommended to brush your teeth with Vietnamese water, due to the Agent Orange residue. What caracterised the cold war was proxy wars, just like the one in Ukraine
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I don't think Ukraine is a proxy war. In Vietnam, it was a clear proxy war between China and the USA. In Ukraine, it's a direct war between Russia and Ukraine, with Ukraine getting limited materiel assistance from a basket of nations who have an interest in containing Russia, and Russia getting similar assistance from places like Iran, China, and India.
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It's a proxy war, just the other way around. The war came before the proxy part. Pootin made the mistake of going after someone we were willing to provide heavy weapons to.
 
DrZoidberg said:
T.G.G. Moogly said:
DrZoidberg said:
Why do you deny that NATO is a combatant in Ukraine?
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Are any NATO troops dying in Ukraine? Are any NATO troops fighting in Ukraine? Are any NATO troops in Ukraine?
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NATO money is dying in Ukraine. A lot of it. More NATO money is dying in Ukraine than Ukrainian money. Most Ukrainian military hardware is now NATO hardware
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Sure, but NATO also has far more money than Russia. And Russian weapons that get destroyed on the battlefield are weapons we won't need to defend against in the future. Not to mention that our spending is way overstated as a lot of what we have provided was nearing the end of it's service life and sooner or later would have been replaced anyway.
 
Cheerful Charlie said:
One of the aspects of the war in Ukraine is that the nature of warfare is rapidly changing. Ukraine then is a laboratory for NATO to learn important lessons in regards to a stupid and expansionist Russia. Long term, Russia loses. With 1/10th the GDP of the USA, technology favors the USA. Russia woke up a sleeping dragon with its antics.
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And we gain considerable benefit from having a small war. We learn what works and what doesn't in modern warfare. Such as that GPS alone is not adequate to guide weapons against a modern opponent that can jam it.
 
aupmanyav said:
T.G.G. Moogly said:
Then it should have invaded NATO.
You really appear to be a stooge for Russian Hitler's propaganda. I don't think you are, however. I think you're just soft-peddling your love of Putin.
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Who knows if it will do that or not? NATO is not the sole superpower. Sure, Russia is and has always been important for India for supply of armaments that West denied to us (MIG's and S-400 systems) and now petrol at lower cost. As for rulers, they come and go.

"In September 2021, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Yury Borisov said that India could be a prospective, and probably the first, S-500 customer."
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And why would you want the S-500? Long range SAMs simply mean your opponent must fly low.
 
barbos said:
ZiprHead said:
barbos said:
Speaking of pathological liars in Ukraine. This is really weird phenomena. if you ask me.
But it's worse, it's lies multiplied by immense and open corruption. Videos of mobilization officers driving recently bought expensive sport cars not even trying to hide it. Children of the prominent government critters who were sent to the West just in time who are drinking in clubs. And people who maidanned Yanukovich for corruption they say? are sitting tight.
Afraid to revolt now?
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You always claim this sort of thing yet you never post the videos.
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You want me to start posting videos in russian in large numbers?
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You don't know how to translate?

barbos said:
ZiprHead said:
And you wonder why nobody believes you.
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You have independent poll to support it. I don't believe your ridiculous claim.
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I have no idea what the above means.
 
T.G.G. Moogly said:
You only say that because you are in Putin's corner. As a Putin supporter I can certainly understand why you would think that any country wishing to be free of Russian Hitler's aggression is doing something wrong. To you NATO is just a bogeyman that is threatening your Dictator's control because you are a Putin supporter. You don't need to keep responding. It's pretty clear to everyone that you favor Putin and are against any nation that wishes to be free from Russian Hitler's control.
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India favors peace and not Putin or NATO. India has no danger from Russia and Modi is in firm control. To stop me from responding, do not debate with me. :)
 
Loren Pechtel said:
DrZoidberg said:
T.G.G. Moogly said:
DrZoidberg said:
Why do you deny that NATO is a combatant in Ukraine?
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Are any NATO troops dying in Ukraine? Are any NATO troops fighting in Ukraine? Are any NATO troops in Ukraine?
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NATO money is dying in Ukraine. A lot of it. More NATO money is dying in Ukraine than Ukrainian money. Most Ukrainian military hardware is now NATO hardware
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Sure, but NATO also has far more money than Russia. And Russian weapons that get destroyed on the battlefield are weapons we won't need to defend against in the future. Not to mention that our spending is way overstated as a lot of what we have provided was nearing the end of it's service life and sooner or later would have been replaced anyway.
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What is this an argument for or against? I don’t understand why you said this. How is this an argument against it being a proxy war?
 
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