How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[ZiprHead]

I will be happy if Putin stops at the eastern portion of the country that the rebels have taken control of, but I fear he won't.

 

[Patooka]

I will be happy if Putin stops at the eastern portion of the country that the rebels have taken control of, but I fear he won't.

I wouldn't be. Putin want his 1950s-esque buffer zone between Russia and NATO. If this tactic works it going to be used again elsewhere on other nations. It might be the end of it with regards to Ukraine, it won't be the end of it fullstop until proxy Warsaw 2.0 comes into effect.

 

[Patooka]

Personally, I think the Kenyan Ambassador to the UN, Martin Kimani, nailed it.

 

[barbos]

Ukraine belonged to Russia from the start?

Yeah, sure.

You are trying to create an impression that these buildings are 1000 years old.

Not at all. The point made by whoever created this array of pictures is that Kiev existed for centuries before Moscow. Though depicting the churches and monasteries in their present state is a bit cheeky, the point it makes is valid. Kiev was known to have existed as a commercial centre as early as the 5th century. The first document mentioning Moscow appeared in 1147.

Yes it existed and it belongs to Russia. According to this theory, ironically.

 

[barbos]

If we fail to act aggressively we will look weak and NATO will be exposed as a sham.

Ukraine is not a member of NATO. In case you did not know.

Good point, Ukraine is an independent nation with sovereign borders that have been violated by Russia twice in the past decade.

And they were "violated" because they behaved like total assholes.

 

[barbos]

Same with Cuba. I believe part of the agreement that ended the Cuban Crisis was an agreement not to invade Cuba.

In exchange for USSR taking nukes out of Cuba. So Putin offers the same deal. What's your problem?

 

[lpetrich]

Personally, I think the Kenyan Ambassador to the UN, Martin Kimani, nailed it.

Nice speech. He said that Africa's national boundaries were determined by European colonialists, boundaries that split up a lot of ethnic groups. After independence, they decided to avoid fights over which nation gets what by not redrawing the boundaries.

 

[barbos]

The name Ukraine and a separate govt suggest it is not part of Russia. If Ukraine was called Russia and did not have a separate govt, then that would suggest it was part of Russia.

Historically Ukraine is part of Russia. The name of the country even suggests that.
They have been "independent" for only 8 years, since 2014.

 

[ZiprHead]

Personally, I think the Kenyan Ambassador to the UN, Martin Kimani, nailed it.

Randi Rhodes played part of that speech on her program today. It was a great speech.

 

[ZiprHead]

The name Ukraine and a separate govt suggest it is not part of Russia. If Ukraine was called Russia and did not have a separate govt, then that would suggest it was part of Russia.

Historically Ukraine is part of Russia. The name of the country even suggests that.
They have been "independent" for only 8 years, since 2014.

And???

 

[barbos]

And Italians actually own most of Europe, much of the Middle East, and Northern Africa as a legacy from the Roman Empire.

Mongolia has entered the chat...

Africa owns everything

 

[barbos]

The name Ukraine and a separate govt suggest it is not part of Russia. If Ukraine was called Russia and did not have a separate govt, then that would suggest it was part of Russia.

Historically Ukraine is part of Russia. The name of the country even suggests that.
They have been "independent" for only 8 years, since 2014.

And???

Nothing, I am just commenting on of claims 400,000 years old Ukraine.

 

[barbos]

Personally, I think the Kenyan Ambassador to the UN, Martin Kimani, nailed it.

Nice speech. He said that Africa's national boundaries were determined by European colonialists, boundaries that split up a lot of ethnic groups. After independence, they decided to avoid fights over which nation gets what by not redrawing the boundaries.

Nice speech, but how is that relevant to USA-Russia Issue?

 

[lpetrich]

Personally, I think the Kenyan Ambassador to the UN, Martin Kimani, nailed it.

Nice speech. He said that Africa's national boundaries were determined by European colonialists, boundaries that split up a lot of ethnic groups. After independence, they decided to avoid fights over which nation gets what by not redrawing the boundaries.

Nice speech, but how is that relevant to USA-Russia Issue?

It's relevant because Europe has the same kind of problem, like the ethnic Russians in Ukraine.

 

[barbos]

Rus comes from Old Norse.

Etymology of a word "Ukraine" bothers you, does not it?

 

[barbos]

It's relevant because Europe has the same kind of problem, like the ethnic Russians in Ukraine.

Which Europe? EU?
Well, I don't think EU has the same problem as Russia. That is most powerful nation on earth trying to destroy it.

EU does not even recognize ethnic Russians in Ukraine have problems.

 

[bilby]

Tim Skellett on Twitter: "Nord Strom 2, North Stream 2, has now had its certification stopped. No Russian gas can flow to Germany. About damn time. Thank heavens; Germany might have waited till the actual invasion. Now is better.
cc. @CathyYoung63" / Twitter

Germany freezes Nord Stream 2 gas project as Ukraine crisis deepens | Reuters

Germany on Tuesday halted the Nord Stream 2 Baltic Sea gas pipeline project, designed to double the flow of Russian gas direct to Germany, after Russia formally recognised two breakaway regions in eastern Ukraine.

Europe's most divisive energy project, worth $11 billion, was finished in September, but has stood idle pending certification by Germany and the European Union.

5 questions for the EU if Russia turns off the gas – POLITICO - "Europe’s gas market will be thrown into turmoil if Russia attacks Ukraine."

The European Union is hooked on Russian natural gas, but a Russian attack on Ukraine could force it to go cold turkey.

That’s causing a scramble to secure alternative supplies and figure out how long the bloc could survive on the gas it has in storage.

"The United States and the EU are working jointly towards continued, sufficient, and timely supply of natural gas to the EU from diverse sources across the globe to avoid supply shocks, including those that could result from a further Russian invasion of Ukraine," U.S. President Joe Biden and European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said Friday.

Von der Leyen discussed additional gas purchases with the emir of Qatar on Thursday, and will follow up on Tuesday, according to a senior EU official.

On Friday, EU Energy Commissioner Kadri Simson is expected to bring up increased flows from Azerbaijan when she visits Baku.

A good reason to get off fossil fuels.

The reason Germany is so massively dependent on Russian gas is simple - their entire energy policy for decades has focused on building wind and solar power, which automatically cause high demand for gas, and on pointlessly closing nuclear plants, which provide energy independence, as well as emissions free power.

France and Sweden use almost no gas at all, Russian or otherwise.

Germany is a perfect example of the utter disaster caused by the "renewable energy" religious cult, which has had a minuscule effect on greenhouse gas emissions, at enormous cost, both financial and, as we now see, political.

I would be lying if I claimed not to like saying "I told you so".

Fucking idiots.

 

[Copernicus]

The name Ukraine and a separate govt suggest it is not part of Russia. If Ukraine was called Russia and did not have a separate govt, then that would suggest it was part of Russia.

Historically Ukraine is part of Russia. The name of the country even suggests that.
They have been "independent" for only 8 years, since 2014.

Total gaslighting claptrap, but barbos, like many Russians, is vulnerable to this kind of nonsense. He even admitted that Kyiv existed long before Moscow did. What led to the development of Belarus and Ukrainian differences was the fact that the Moscow-Vladimir-Suzdal area was mostly outside of the main Grand Duchy of Lithuania, which contained most of the major urban centers. It remained under Mongol dominance for almost a century longer than the main body of Ruthenian speakers. Byelorussian was actually the official court language at the beginning of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, because the Grand Duke of Lithuania became King of Poland through marriage to Queen Jadwiga, who died during their joint reign.

During the American Revolution, Brigadier General Tadeusz Kościuszko was said to be Polish, but he was actually born in Belarus near Brest-Litovsk. After the American Revolution, he returned to Poland to try to save the remnants of the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth, which was being partitioned to death by its neighbors, but primarily Russia. He led the  Kościuszko Uprising against a larger, better-equipped Russian army quite successfully with his own troops, largely made up of peasants that he trained. He was overwhelmed by combined Russian and Prussian forces. Catherine the Great imprisoned him in St. Petersburg, but he was released to return to America after she died.

 

[bilby]

And Italians actually own most of Europe, much of the Middle East, and Northern Africa as a legacy from the Roman Empire.

Mongolia has entered the chat...

Hello there, Mongolia. Nice to see you. Have you moved to Europe, the Middle East or Northern Africa while we were not looking?

Depends. Were you looking in the C13th?

 

[barbos]

The name Ukraine and a separate govt suggest it is not part of Russia. If Ukraine was called Russia and did not have a separate govt, then that would suggest it was part of Russia.

Historically Ukraine is part of Russia. The name of the country even suggests that.
They have been "independent" for only 8 years, since 2014.

And???

And Ukraine does not have 400,000 year old history.