pood
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Very clearly wrong, as usual.
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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?
- Thread starter Harry Bosch
- Start date
Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
Did Russia want to attack these nations at that time? Why the rush? It was a specter created by West, just like Pakistan military has created for preserving its dominance, 'India will attack Pakistan, 'Akhand Bharat' - undivided India'. Who says that? A marginal political party, Hindu Mahasabha, which has not won even a single seat in the Indian parliament since 1996, and none in the State legislatures since 2002.
Who suffered because of these beliefs? Georgia and now Ukraine. Will Ukraine be the last country attacked by Russia? These countries are just pawns for NATO.
Hindu Mahasabha - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Aup, you seem not to know anything about the history of the Soviet Union, its satellite nations, or the Soviet Socialist republics that comprised it. The short answer to your question, is YES! The Baltic Republics feared being attacked by Russia (in the guise of a neighborly fellow Soviet Socialist Republic). There was something called the "Brezhnev doctrine", which held that the Soviet Union had the right to use force to keep its "republics" in the Union and satellite nations in the Soviet sphere. Mikhail Gorbachev rejected that doctrine and tried to introduce looser controls internally with gradually more democratic processes (aka "Glasnost"). He mistakenly assumed that the other Republics would vote to remain in a reformed Soviet Union. This backfired on him, because Lithuania started the ball rolling by declaring its independence from the Soviet Union in 1989. They were attacked and some Soviet troops were sent to occupy Vilnius, but other republics joined in. By 1991, 11 of the Soviet Socialist Republics had declared independence, including the Baltic states, Belarus, and Ukraine. They actually voted to secede. Ultimately, Gorbachev resigned the presidency, and the Soviet Union collapsed. Putin, a minor KGB apparatchik in East Germany, went into shock.
You described the Warsaw Pact as an alliance set up to defend against NATO. You were wrong. It was an alliance imposed by the Soviet government on East European nations that it had occupied at the end of WWII and kept under control with puppet governments. Its real purpose was to help suppress rebellions in Eastern Europe--to prevent those countries from joining with Western Europe. When Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and Poland experienced signs of breaking away, it was the Soviet Army and armies of neighboring Warsaw Pact nations that kept them in line. That is why every single Warsaw Pact nation in Eastern Europe rushed to join NATO after the Soviet Union collapsed. That is why even former Soviet Republics tried to join NATO. The Baltic states succeeded in getting into NATO, but Ukraine did not.
NATO did not move its borders closer to Russia. Russia's neighbors moved into NATO. If you did not know the history of this area, then please read some history of the region and get your facts straight. Ukraine is fighting a war of independence now so that it won't be sucked back into a new Russian Empire by force of arms.
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In short, those in power in Russia want to reclaim what they consider their rightful land, much like the leaders in Israel seek to regain territory they believe is theirs. The problem is that these lands are occupied by people over whom they have no control, so they resort to force and fabricate a convenient narrative—whether biblical or political—to rally a nation of idiots to support their actions.
pood
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This is all absolutely correct and, in case it has not already been mentioned, the Baltic Republics were part of the Russian empire before World War I, held by force, After the war, all three republics gained their independence. When World War II started, Stalin OVERRAN the independent Baltic republics and absorbed the by force into the Soviet Union. Were it not for NATO protection, Putin would try to do the very same thing now, although by the looks of it, after his historic debacle in Ukraine, he wouldn’t be able to succeed if he ever tried.Did Russia want to attack these nations at that time? Why the rush? It was a specter created by West, just like Pakistan military has created for preserving its dominance, 'India will attack Pakistan, 'Akhand Bharat' - undivided India'. Who says that? A marginal political party, Hindu Mahasabha, which has not won even a single seat in the Indian parliament since 1996, and none in the State legislatures since 2002.
Who suffered because of these beliefs? Georgia and now Ukraine. Will Ukraine be the last country attacked by Russia? These countries are just pawns for NATO.Hindu Mahasabha - Wikipedia
Aup, you seem not to know anything about the history of the Soviet Union, its satellite nations, or the Soviet Socialist republics that comprised it. The short answer to your question, is YES! The Baltic Republics feared being attacked by Russia (in the guise of a neighborly fellow Soviet Socialist Republic). There was something called the "Brezhnev doctrine", which held that the Soviet Union had the right to use force to keep its "republics" in the Union and satellite nations in the Soviet sphere. Mikhail Gorbachev rejected that doctrine and tried to introduce looser controls internally with gradually more democratic processes (aka "Glasnost"). He mistakenly assumed that the other Republics would vote to remain in a reformed Soviet Union. This backfired on him, because Lithuania started the ball rolling by declaring its independence from the Soviet Union in 1989. They were attacked and some Soviet troops were sent to occupy Vilnius, but other republics joined in. By 1991, 11 of the Soviet Socialist Republics had declared independence, including the Baltic states, Belarus, and Ukraine. They actually voted to secede. Ultimately, Gorbachev resigned the presidency, and the Soviet Union collapsed. Putin, a minor KGB apparatchik in East Germany, went into shock.
You described the Warsaw Pact as an alliance set up to defend against NATO. You were wrong. It was an alliance imposed by the Soviet government on East European nations that it had occupied at the end of WWII and kept under control with puppet governments. Its real purpose was to help suppress rebellions in Eastern Europe--to prevent those countries from joining with Western Europe. When Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and Poland experienced signs of breaking away, it was the Soviet Army and armies of neighboring Warsaw Pact nations that kept them in line. That is why every single Warsaw Pact nation in Eastern Europe rushed to join NATO after the Soviet Union collapsed. That is why even former Soviet Republics tried to join NATO. The Baltic states succeeded in getting into NATO, but Ukraine did not.
NATO did not move its borders closer to Russia. Russia's neighbors moved into NATO. If you did not know the history of this area, then please read some history of the region and get your facts straight. Ukraine is fighting a war of independence now so that it won't be sucked back into a new Russian Empire by force of arms.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Yo0u seem to be ignorant of Russia and communism.
A fundamental principle of Russian and Chinese communism was the violent overthrow of global governess replaced by communism. There is no debate over that.
The Soviet Union collapsed because it did not provide for the pepole and could not economically support i9ts militarism. The kid of fundamntal incpetnce we see in Putin.
China on the other had opened to western technology and investment. The leadership evolution from Mao to opening to the west would be a history thread.
Today we are adversarial with China, yet we have trade and mutual investment, cultural exchange. China sells EVs in Europe. China has a global market.
In contrast the dismal and dark Putin keeps Russia isolated and blames the west for Russian problems.
pood
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And, to finish my point here, he MIGHT try to attack the Baltic nations, even with his Ukraine debacle, given that he is a megalomaniacal and possibly senile old Nazi degenerate, but even in his depravity he is unlikely to try precisely because these nations are members of NATO — which, I add again for the edification of aupmanyav, has never attacked anyone in its nearly 80-year history.
Henry-Finland
Senior Member
Short video
- Ukrainian Strikes in Crimea
- Ukraine downed 5/5 Russian Drones
- Russia hit Ukraine with 3 Iskander-M Missiles
- Russia prioritizes Donetsk over Kursk
- Another Russian convoy obliterated (by Russians)
- Ukraine lost a HIMARS system
- Russian corruption helps Ukraine
As Ukraine Make Gains In Kursk, Russia Prioritizes Donetsk
- 1330 Russian Casualties- Ukrainian Strikes in Crimea
- Ukraine downed 5/5 Russian Drones
- Russia hit Ukraine with 3 Iskander-M Missiles
- Russia prioritizes Donetsk over Kursk
- Another Russian convoy obliterated (by Russians)
- Ukraine lost a HIMARS system
- Russian corruption helps Ukraine
pood
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I’d also add that at the start of World War II, Stalin also attacked Finland, which too had been part of the old Russian empire before gaining independence after World War I. As it happened, Finland, many of their soldiers on skis, handed the Red Army its ass, though in the end Stalin did manage to occupy a small strip of Finnish territory. It is reported that the Red Army debacle in Finland made Hitler think the Soviet Union would be a pushover to invade and conquer.
Henry-Finland
Senior Member
Henry-Finland
Senior Member
"...Red Army debacle in Finland made Hitler think the Soviet Union would be a pushover to invade and conquer."
Exactly!
Henry-Finland
Senior Member
Ukraine Cuts the Big Ruzzian Army Group in Kursk
- In the Kursk region, Ukraine is destroying bridges (using HIMARS).
- It's a very large area, and the Russians are getting trapped. They are building pontoon bridges.
- Ukraine is advancing a few kilometers on the western front of Kursk.
- Russian military bloggers are angry because yet another Russian convoy has been destroyed. (We are awaiting videos)
Henry-Finland
Senior Member
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
Aup is ignorant of all this. He has said that things that happened in the past do not matter today which I take as just a dodge to cover his Putin love. He's probably not the historical dunce he pretends to be but certainly the farce is strong in Aup.Did Russia want to attack these nations at that time? Why the rush? It was a specter created by West, just like Pakistan military has created for preserving its dominance, 'India will attack Pakistan, 'Akhand Bharat' - undivided India'. Who says that? A marginal political party, Hindu Mahasabha, which has not won even a single seat in the Indian parliament since 1996, and none in the State legislatures since 2002.
Who suffered because of these beliefs? Georgia and now Ukraine. Will Ukraine be the last country attacked by Russia? These countries are just pawns for NATO.Hindu Mahasabha - Wikipedia
Aup, you seem not to know anything about the history of the Soviet Union, its satellite nations, or the Soviet Socialist republics that comprised it. The short answer to your question, is YES! The Baltic Republics feared being attacked by Russia (in the guise of a neighborly fellow Soviet Socialist Republic). There was something called the "Brezhnev doctrine", which held that the Soviet Union had the right to use force to keep its "republics" in the Union and satellite nations in the Soviet sphere. Mikhail Gorbachev rejected that doctrine and tried to introduce looser controls internally with gradually more democratic processes (aka "Glasnost"). He mistakenly assumed that the other Republics would vote to remain in a reformed Soviet Union. This backfired on him, because Lithuania started the ball rolling by declaring its independence from the Soviet Union in 1989. They were attacked and some Soviet troops were sent to occupy Vilnius, but other republics joined in. By 1991, 11 of the Soviet Socialist Republics had declared independence, including the Baltic states, Belarus, and Ukraine. They actually voted to secede. Ultimately, Gorbachev resigned the presidency, and the Soviet Union collapsed. Putin, a minor KGB apparatchik in East Germany, went into shock.
You described the Warsaw Pact as an alliance set up to defend against NATO. You were wrong. It was an alliance imposed by the Soviet government on East European nations that it had occupied at the end of WWII and kept under control with puppet governments. Its real purpose was to help suppress rebellions in Eastern Europe--to prevent those countries from joining with Western Europe. When Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and Poland experienced signs of breaking away, it was the Soviet Army and armies of neighboring Warsaw Pact nations that kept them in line. That is why every single Warsaw Pact nation in Eastern Europe rushed to join NATO after the Soviet Union collapsed. That is why even former Soviet Republics tried to join NATO. The Baltic states succeeded in getting into NATO, but Ukraine did not.
NATO did not move its borders closer to Russia. Russia's neighbors moved into NATO. If you did not know the history of this area, then please read some history of the region and get your facts straight. Ukraine is fighting a war of independence now so that it won't be sucked back into a new Russian Empire by force of arms.
Elixir
Made in America
Wouldn’t be surprised - his misrepresentations have been even suckier than usual lately. But hopefully he’s just on vacation.Where is Barbos?Has he been relieved of his duties?
pood
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Maybe he has been sent to the front.Wouldn’t be surprised - his misrepresentations have been even suckier than usual lately. But hopefully he’s just on vacation.Where is Barbos?
Henry-Finland
Senior Member
And something different about Russian propaganda:
Few people know about the Russian state sponsored Pulp Fiction industry a massive component of the Russian propaganda machine aimed exclusively at a domestic audience.
It started picking up in the early 2010s and since then more than 2,500 books have been published that's about one book published every 36 hours for the past decade.
These books are like a contagious they can be found everywhere in Russia from the smallest kiosks to the Moscow Central bookstore.
They are in fact more common within Russia than indoor toilets thanks to the massive centralized effort by the government to spread them absolutely everywhere.
The war against the Nazi-Ukrainans:
The reborn czars (and Berija) showing how all the battles will be won:
The Nazis and comrade Hitler fighting together against the sexually degenerated Anglo-Saxon world:
Watch the video and you will certainly find something new:
Few people know about the Russian state sponsored Pulp Fiction industry a massive component of the Russian propaganda machine aimed exclusively at a domestic audience.
It started picking up in the early 2010s and since then more than 2,500 books have been published that's about one book published every 36 hours for the past decade.
These books are like a contagious they can be found everywhere in Russia from the smallest kiosks to the Moscow Central bookstore.
They are in fact more common within Russia than indoor toilets thanks to the massive centralized effort by the government to spread them absolutely everywhere.
The war against the Nazi-Ukrainans:
The reborn czars (and Berija) showing how all the battles will be won:
The Nazis and comrade Hitler fighting together against the sexually degenerated Anglo-Saxon world:
Watch the video and you will certainly find something new:
Cheerful Charlie
Contributor
Truly bizarre! Maybe this explains Barbos.
laughing dog
Contributor
There is a nice red BANNED banner by his name.Wouldn’t be surprised - his misrepresentations have been even suckier than usual lately. But hopefully he’s just on vacation.Where is Barbos?