How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[barbos]

It maybe working for Russia (though the progress is slow), but it also means that there is no infrastructure left behind.

Opposite is true. Saving infrastructure IS the reason for slow advancement.
Otherwise Ukraine would have no tunnels, roads, bridges, railroads and ports already.
Progress is measured in number of troops and military equipment Ukraine loses every day. At some point their army will simply quit.

 

[barbos]

After plan A of "march into Kyiv and be greeted as liberators" failed, Russia has regressed into tactics that it knows well: massive artillery shelling.

You sound bitter. Did you think Russia would quit after plan A?
Shelling is not that massive. They widely use Krasnopols and UAV for target pointing.
"Massive" dumb shelling is for more less large concentration of troops, again, with UAV correction.

And plan A was not that bad. It was basically repeat of Crimean operation - nobody would have died. Unfortunately they miscalculated amount of nazi terrorists willing to die in the ukrainian army at that time. So Putin replaced people behind plan A with people from Syrian campaign and it all got better.

 

[barbos]

It maybe working for Russia (though the progress is slow), but it also means that there is no infrastructure left behind. The "liberation" of Severodonetsk is a joke, when the entire city is reduced to a rubble first by Russian artillery, and then into a finer grained rubble by Ukrainian counter-artillery. Just like Mariupol, really... a city that now has a cholera problem because of all the dead bodies.

Those who survive, end up tortured in basements, raped, or moved to "filtration camps". What a glorious victory.

You overdosed on western propaganda.

 

[zorq]

Remember how much fuss you made about your anti-tank rockets?
Well, here is a news for you, they are useless now, russian army do not use tanks to engage these idiots with javelins. They are using artillery from a safe distance of 30-40 km, there is simply no need for tanks.

Chickenshits murdering from afar.

As opposed to your chickenshit nazis who uses hostages to defend themselves.

Yeah, defend. Because they aren't the attackers. Because Russia is the attacker. And Russia has given no good reason to attack. Russia just wants to steal the land and kill the people. If Ukraine handed over all their "nazis" today would Russia go home? No, Because Russia isn't there for "nazis." They never were. Only a self-felating idiot would believe that. Russia is there to kill and steal.

Russia and all the Russian scumbags who are complicit in her inhumane crimes are lowlife shitburgers who are welcome to enjoy a urine shower from me then go gargle the diarrhea from a swarm of Maruipol rats.

 

[barbos]

Yeah, defend. Because they aren't the attackers

True, they are no longer attackers. But before that they has been attackers for 8 years. Now they are getting what they deserved.

 

[barbos]

Russia and all the Russian scumbags who are complicit in her inhumane crimes are lowlife shitburgers who are welcome to enjoy a urine shower from me then go gargle the diarrhea from a swarm of Maruipol rats

Scambags are ukrainian nazis and western neocons who attacked Russia.

 

[zorq]

Yeah, sorry about that. I just brushed myself up on the TOU, and I think I did break at least one rule there. No point in arguing it either as that's against TOU too. My bad. I'll just go ahead and report myself, especially as it is too late for me to edit it out.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Yeah, sorry about that. I just brushed myself up on the TOU, and I think I did break at least one rule there. No point in arguing it either as that's against TOU too. My bad. I'll just go ahead and report myself, especially as it is too late for me to edit it out.

I'm not going to engage either. But I understand the passion. The crimes committed by the Russian mob in Ukraine (you forgot their looting in Ukraine also) must never be forgotten.

 

[Elixir]

Russia and all the Russian scumbags who are complicit in her inhumane crimes are lowlife shitburgers who are welcome to enjoy a urine shower from me then go gargle the diarrhea from a swarm of Maruipol rats

Scambags are ukrainian nazis and western neocons who attacked Russia.

BWAHAHA!

So … Barbie is now saying scumbags don’t exist. Ooookay….

 

[ZiprHead]

Russia and all the Russian scumbags who are complicit in her inhumane crimes are lowlife shitburgers who are welcome to enjoy a urine shower from me then go gargle the diarrhea from a swarm of Maruipol rats

Scambags are ukrainian nazis and western neocons who attacked Russia.

Wow! When did this happen? I would think such a thing would have made the news.

 

[Jayjay]

Remember how much fuss you made about your anti-tank rockets?
Well, here is a news for you, they are useless now, russian army do not use tanks to engage these idiots with javelins. They are using artillery from a safe distance of 30-40 km, there is simply no need for tanks.

Chickenshits murdering from afar.

As opposed to your chickenshit nazis who uses hostages to defend themselves.

False. The civilians in Azovstal for example were evacuated, and the defenders stayed back for some time afterwards. If they were using the civilians as hostages, why would they let them go? The civilians left in early May, while the last remaining fighters surrendered (or perished) in late May.

 

[Jayjay]

It maybe working for Russia (though the progress is slow), but it also means that there is no infrastructure left behind.

Opposite is true. Saving infrastructure IS the reason for slow advancement.
Otherwise Ukraine would have no tunnels, roads, bridges, railroads and ports already.

In Severodonetsk and Mariupol, "saving infrastructure" obviously didn't happen. Satellite images show that the civilian infrastructure in Mariupol was utterly destroyed:

Russia's devastation of Mariupol, Ukraine visible from space in satellite photos

The shots show shattered apartment blocks and houses reduced to rubble.

www.space.com

Before:

After:

(source)

Russia may have spared some infrastructure for military purposes (railroads, bridges, etc.) but it doesn't give a shit about civilian infrastructure like apartment buildings, hospitals, or shopping malls.

Progress is measured in number of troops and military equipment Ukraine loses every day. At some point their army will simply quit.

That goes both ways. And actually there are three options:

1) Russia quits.
2) Ukraine quits.
3) An equilibrium, where both sides are too weak to attack, but strong enough to defend and prevent the other side from advancing.

Option 1 would be ideal, but unrealistic. The point of delivering western weapons is to try to achieve option 3 happens and Ukraine remains independent. If Ukraine were to run out of troops, ammo, or guns, there is nothing in Russia's way to rape the whole country.

 

[ZiprHead]

That second photo is obviously a fake because of... reasons.

 

[Elixir]

Wow! When did this happen?

It “happened” between barbie’s ears right after his “there will be no invasion” lie was exposed.

 

[Jayjay]

After plan A of "march into Kyiv and be greeted as liberators" failed, Russia has regressed into tactics that it knows well: massive artillery shelling.

You sound bitter. Did you think Russia would quit after plan A?
Shelling is not that massive. They widely use Krasnopols and UAV for target pointing.
"Massive" dumb shelling is for more less large concentration of troops, again, with UAV correction.

Russia has enough shells to hit even targets that are not confirmed, just in case. Just because they're using Orlan-10 for targeting, doesn't mean they are so strapped that they have to be stingy about firing almost constantly.

And plan A was not that bad. It was basically repeat of Crimean operation - nobody would have died. Unfortunately they miscalculated amount of nazi terrorists willing to die in the ukrainian army at that time. So Putin replaced people behind plan A with people from Syrian campaign and it all got better.

What a brilliant idea. If Stalin had just handed the keys to Leningrad and Stalingrad to mr. Hitler, those sieges could have been avoided and nobody would have died!

Besides, we know from Bucha and other towns in the north, that just because they didn't fight back, didn't stop Russia from going door to door and kill people anyway. We know from witnesses who've managed to escape that exactly the same thing happened (and is still happening) in places that Russia currently occupies, like Mariupol, Izyum, or even Kherson, but obviously, there is less information getting out from Russian-occupied territories. The only one to be blamed for the deaths is the aggressor, not the defender.

 

[Jayjay]

It maybe working for Russia (though the progress is slow), but it also means that there is no infrastructure left behind. The "liberation" of Severodonetsk is a joke, when the entire city is reduced to a rubble first by Russian artillery, and then into a finer grained rubble by Ukrainian counter-artillery. Just like Mariupol, really... a city that now has a cholera problem because of all the dead bodies.

Those who survive, end up tortured in basements, raped, or moved to "filtration camps". What a glorious victory.

You overdosed on western propaganda.

No, I'm overdosed on reality. Although given how bleak the reality is, that makes me probably worse off.

Of course we can't get accurate numbers out of Russian-controlled areas, but everyone who has managed to escape tells the same story of mass graves, and dead bodies everywhere. Ukrainian officials are saying that 10-20k civilians are dead just in Mariupol, and that's probably in the ballpark. As for cholera, it's not confirmed, but it's based on the conditions and the fact that the city has had cholera outbreaks before.

 

[Jayjay]

Remember how much fuss you made about your anti-tank rockets?
Well, here is a news for you, they are useless now, russian army do not use tanks to engage these idiots with javelins. They are using artillery from a safe distance of 30-40 km, there is simply no need for tanks.

Chickenshits murdering from afar.

As opposed to your chickenshit nazis who uses hostages to defend themselves.

Yeah, defend. Because they aren't the attackers. Because Russia is the attacker. And Russia has given no good reason to attack. Russia just wants to steal the land and kill the people. If Ukraine handed over all their "nazis" today would Russia go home? No, Because Russia isn't there for "nazis." They never were. Only a self-felating idiot would believe that. Russia is there to kill and steal.

Russia and all the Russian scumbags who are complicit in her inhumane crimes are lowlife shitburgers who are welcome to enjoy a urine shower from me then go gargle the diarrhea from a swarm of Maruipol rats.

No need to be so diplomatic; tell us how you really feel.

Sometimes evil wins. To me it seems like after Russia's initial plan failed, there was a short window when it was regrouping, and that's when it briefly looked like Ukraine might be able to turn the tide of the war: the sinking of Moskva, pushing Russia away from artillery range of Kharkiv, stalling of Russian pincer south of Izyum, destroying pontoon bridges and Russian battalion in Bilohorivka were all good news, that may have lulled everyone into ignoring the fact that Russian artillery still outnumbers Ukrainians 10-to-1 and it is very good at using it.

Now that Ukraine has run out of Soviet stock of weapons and is completely reliant on western arms, and is facing maybe 100-200 deaths per day, the situation has dramatically deteriorated. Ukraine is unlikely to be able to take back any of the already-occupied territory, and will likely have to withdraw from Donetsk with massive casualties. And then what? Russia isn't going to stop at Donetsk, it will then move its focus to west. Russia can't attack everywhere at once; but it has shown in the past months that when it concentrates its forces in one place, it can make slow incremental gains and chew away Ukrainian defenses.

 

[Jayjay]

Yeah, defend. Because they aren't the attackers

True, they are no longer attackers. But before that they has been attackers for 8 years. Now they are getting what they deserved.

No, they haven't. Russia invaded Ukraine, and Ukraine was defending itself. If Russian separatist puppets fire at Ukraine, it's perfectly okay for them to fire back.

 

[Jayjay]

Russia and all the Russian scumbags who are complicit in her inhumane crimes are lowlife shitburgers who are welcome to enjoy a urine shower from me then go gargle the diarrhea from a swarm of Maruipol rats

Scambags are ukrainian nazis and western neocons who attacked Russia.

Nobody attacked Russia. Russia attacked Ukraine by taking Crimea and Donbas in 2014. Ukraine has been fighting on its own soil since then, and even now has only made a few strikes against military targets in Belgorod region.

 

[Patooka]

If your nazis hit targets in Russia (Crimea IS Russia)

Russia Uber Alles, right barbos? Because Nazis are bad, right?