How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Harry Bosch]

Polish venue cancels Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters' shows after controversial Ukraine letter | CNN

Brirtish rock legend and Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters' planned concerts in Poland in April have been cancelled amid a backlash to the musician's stance on Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

www.cnn.com

CNN)Brirtish rock legend and Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters' planned concerts in Poland in April have been canceled amid a backlash to the musician's stance on Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Live Nation Poland, the concert's promoter, confirmed the cancellation Saturday but did not specify a reason.

The cancellation comes after Waters, 79, published a controversial open letter on his website in early September to Ukrainian first lady Olena Zelenska. In the letter, Waters wrote that he opposed the West sending weapons to Ukraine to aid the embattled country in its war against invading Russia.

BTW: love Pink Floyd. Probably the best concert that I've ever attended. But I'm always mystified when westerns claim that the Russian imperialism is our fault. First off, I don't believe that. But even it were true, who the fuck cares! How does it matter? One country is attacking another. Should we really just help Russia commit genocide in Ukraine? Just send them the gas chambers to help.

 

[steve_bank]

It is all part of an unbalanced bash America paradigm. Get rid of the USA and the world will be a peaceful paradise.

In his documentary in the 80s Oliver Stone claimed the west in particula the USA and Harry Trumn made Stalin do what he did. Stalin wasn't really such a bad guy.

He ignored the non aggression agreement Stalin made with Hitler in exchange for part of Poland. Putin is making the same justfication as Stalin, Russia has a right to take border states as a buffer to European agression.

Putin's refrain 'Russia has a right to defend itself'.

 

[Patooka]

Police open fire during protests against Putin conscription drive in Russia's Dagestan

Despite its small population, more troops from Dagestan have reportedly died fighting in Ukraine than from anywhere else in Russia.

www.abc.net.au

Police fired shots into the air after dozens of villagers blocked a major road, videos taken at the scene showed.

Not good.

European leaders divided on giving asylum to fleeing Russians

As thousands look to leave Russia following Vladimir Putin's troop mobilisation, European nations are divided on whether to welcome those fleeing the draft.

www.abc.net.au

As thousands of Russians look to flee the country in the wake of Vladimir Putin's fresh troop mobilisation, European nations are divided on whether to welcome those fleeing the draft.

Yet other EU countries are adamant that asylum should not be offered to Russian men fleeing now, when the war has moved into its eighth month. Those countries include Lithuania, which borders the Russian Baltic Sea exclave Kaliningrad, . Its Foreign Minister, Gabrielius Landsbergis, tweeted "Russians should stay and fight. Against Putin."

His counterpart in Latvia, also an EU member bordering Russia, said the exodus posed "considerable security risks" for the 27-nation bloc and that those fleeing could not be considered conscientious objectors since they did not act when Russia invaded Ukraine in February. Many "were fine with killing Ukrainians, they did not protest then," the Latvian foreign minister, Edgars Rinkevics, tweeted.

This is just fucking stupid logic. Give Ukraine billions of dollars of dakka to fight Russia, but don't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to get Russian soldiers off the board, sometimes with their kit? It's a fuckton cheaper to give Russian men of age asylum status than it is to resupply an artillery battery. Both accomplish the same.

 

[Jayjay]

Police open fire during protests against Putin conscription drive in Russia's Dagestan

Despite its small population, more troops from Dagestan have reportedly died fighting in Ukraine than from anywhere else in Russia.

www.abc.net.au

Police fired shots into the air after dozens of villagers blocked a major road, videos taken at the scene showed.

Not good.

European leaders divided on giving asylum to fleeing Russians

As thousands look to leave Russia following Vladimir Putin's troop mobilisation, European nations are divided on whether to welcome those fleeing the draft.

www.abc.net.au

As thousands of Russians look to flee the country in the wake of Vladimir Putin's fresh troop mobilisation, European nations are divided on whether to welcome those fleeing the draft.

Yet other EU countries are adamant that asylum should not be offered to Russian men fleeing now, when the war has moved into its eighth month. Those countries include Lithuania, which borders the Russian Baltic Sea exclave Kaliningrad, . Its Foreign Minister, Gabrielius Landsbergis, tweeted "Russians should stay and fight. Against Putin."

His counterpart in Latvia, also an EU member bordering Russia, said the exodus posed "considerable security risks" for the 27-nation bloc and that those fleeing could not be considered conscientious objectors since they did not act when Russia invaded Ukraine in February. Many "were fine with killing Ukrainians, they did not protest then," the Latvian foreign minister, Edgars Rinkevics, tweeted.

This is just fucking stupid logic. Give Ukraine billions of dollars of dakka to fight Russia, but don't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to get Russian soldiers off the board, sometimes with their kit? It's a fuckton cheaper to give Russian men of age asylum status than it is to resupply an artillery battery. Both accomplish the same.

I disagree. First, many if not most of the asylum seekers are not against the war. They fully support the lunacy, they just don't want to fight in it. It's one thing to support Ukraine, another to protect yourself from being flooded by a Russian fifth column. This is particularly important for Baltic countries that already have Russian-speaking populations from the Soviet era.

Second, it's not going to matter much anyway, because Putin is closing the border himself soon. The current batch of people are those who Putin wants to leave. The ones who'd be trouble if there are going to be protests.

 

[Jayjay]

I guess not everyone agrees that the mobilization is a good idea:



The comments in he tweet imply that the victim may have survived.

 

[TV and credit cards]

I guess not everyone agrees that the mobilization is a good idea:



The comments in he tweet imply that the victim may have survived.

At least his anger and violence was pointed in the right direction.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I disagree. First, many if not most of the asylum seekers are not against the war. They fully support the lunacy, they just don't want to fight in it. It's one thing to support Ukraine, another to protect yourself from being flooded by a Russian fifth column. This is particularly important for Baltic countries that already have Russian-speaking populations from the Soviet era.

Second, it's not going to matter much anyway, because Putin is closing the border himself soon. The current batch of people are those who Putin wants to leave. The ones who'd be trouble if there are going to be protests.

Can't agree with you here. These men are akin to POWs. They won't be trying to kill you, they're surrendering. Many more if not most would do the same thing but can't.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I disagree. First, many if not most of the asylum seekers are not against the war. They fully support the lunacy, they just don't want to fight in it. It's one thing to support Ukraine, another to protect yourself from being flooded by a Russian fifth column. This is particularly important for Baltic countries that already have Russian-speaking populations from the Soviet era.

Second, it's not going to matter much anyway, because Putin is closing the border himself soon. The current batch of people are those who Putin wants to leave. The ones who'd be trouble if there are going to be protests.

Can't agree with you here. These men are akin to POWs. They won't be trying to kill you, they're surrendering. Many more if not most would do the same thing but can't.

First off, it's sad and isn't fair to the Russian civilians, but Russian imperialism probably won't stop until there is a civil war against Putler. If all the normal people leave, the remaining Russians will be a group of Q-Russkies, willing to believe anything that will keep their leader in power. And Europe will be in continual war. A second issue is the country where these Russian speakers flock to will be future targets of the Q-Russkies.

 

[steve_bank]

There was a video in the news of people in a Russian republic shouting Ukraine did not start the war and it is Putin's war.

Reminded me of the VN War protests.

One of things working against the VN War effort was the new 24/7 live reporting from the war. People saw on the evening news wounded and dead Americans.

Images and reporting must be getting through to Russia proper despite censoring.

If there is wide scale support for the war I'd think people would be lingg up to enlist.

 

[TV and credit cards]

It’s a big deal to up and leave your home particularly if you’re people of modest means and limited talent. People who left at the onset of the war had the means and skills to comfortably do so. People leaving now are scared. They have some means and are worried enough about their own future to take a chance in a foreign land and hope for the best.
It takes a lot for most people to just up and leave their home. A home they may have known no other for the entirety of their life. In this, I do not think it is necessarily a lack of concern for the Ukrainians. And we do not know what knowledge they have of what is going on. The Kremlin has shut down a lot of social media.

 

[Rhea]

I agree that it seems that the world gains more by treating them as refugees, or even POWs, than by making them stay in Russia. It doesn’t mean you have to give them citizenship, and you can send them back when Putin is overthrown. Meanwhile, they will never be made to hold a gun or dig a trench against Ukraine.

 

[Copernicus]

Russia has enough young men that the loss of those lined up at the border are not really going to put a dent into Putin's plans. At least some of them will end up working for Russian intelligence services, but I suspect that the FSB and GRU already have a pretty extensive network of agents operating in European countries. It was pretty easy to get infiltrators into the West before now. So they'll be able to bribe the new Russian refugees, who will need money and support to survive in the West.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This is just fucking stupid logic. Give Ukraine billions of dollars of dakka to fight Russia, but don't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to get Russian soldiers off the board, sometimes with their kit? It's a fuckton cheaper to give Russian men of age asylum status than it is to resupply an artillery battery. Both accomplish the same.

I think the issue is whether they are genuine asylum seekers or Russian troublemakers.

 

[steve_bank]

Now there's a solution that is far cheaper tan all those weapons.

Offer all the Russian soldiers cash and a visa. I believe ancient Rome rested to buying off triubling eneimies.

 

[TV and credit cards]

.

Now there's a solution that is far cheaper tan all those weapons.

Offer all the Russian soldiers cash and a visa. I believe ancient Rome rested to buying off triubling eneimies.

Or make sure they have ample access to alcohol.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

This war of Russia's will not be over anytime soon. So the conscriptions will continue. And the Russian abuses and incompetence. How the Cannon fodder of Russia react over the next few years will be interesting to see. Not to mention the angry mothers and wives of Russia. As sanctions begin to bite, things will just get worse.

This is going to be an interesting decade in Russia. Remember the Ceausescus.

 

[steve_bank]

The Iran-Iraq war went on for 8 years, chemical weapons were used. When it reavhed a stalemate civilians were targeted. Total casualties approached 1 million. It ended when both sides got sick of it and could not go on with the war.

Religion, ideology, and border territory disputes. Saudis vs Yemen, but nobody really cares. Same with Azerbaijan vs Armenia.

Iran–Iraq War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ukraine matters because it can affect Europe and North America in the long run. Russia vs Georgia none over here really cared about.

 

[Patooka]

Ukraine matters because it can affect Europe and North America in the long run.

Also, nearly a billion people desperately rely on the food that flows through Ukraine.

 

[ZiprHead]

Russia is on its last legs.

 

[ZiprHead]