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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

 
 
 
And is actually Russia and Putin himself is being played by not Trump but US Deep State actors who manipulate Trump.
Good discussion about that on Duran. Putin need to understand that western monkeys who he speaks to, have no desire to listen and take him seriously. And Trump himself is a complete idiot and talking to him is extra pointless.
Putin thinks that just becasue he is the main "decider" in Russia so is Trump and other western "leaders"
They are not. They are paid actors who do what they are paid to do and their word means nothing.
 
barbos said:
And is actually Russia and Putin himself is being played by not Trump but US Deep State actors who manipulate Trump.
Good discussion about that on Duran. Putin need to understand that western monkeys who he speaks to, have no desire to listen and take him seriously. And Trump himself is a complete idiot and talking to him is extra pointless.
Putin thinks that just becasue he is the main "decider" in Russia so is Trump and other western "leaders"
They are not. They are paid actors who do what they are paid to do and their word means nothing.
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Can't you just say what his "red line" is? I'm not going to watch any Russian propaganda video. Are you sure that Putin is really in charge? When he met with Trump, he agreed to peace proposal which allowed western peacekeepers in Ukraine. After he returned home, someone nixed this. Who is really in charge?
 
Elixir said:
steve_bank said:
Pretty much the same.
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Not regressive for the time though.
Anyhow, it took well over a century from there, to get to a point where we elected a black president and were respected worldwide as a benevolent force for representative government. It may take another century to get anywhere near that status, if the dust ever settles on American fascism.
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Culture changed, but not politics.

I read Jefferson wanted to ban parties.

Jefferson's opponents called him a French lover who would sell us out to France.

One side calling the other weak on defense.

Fake news stories in print media by political operative.

Jefferson and Adams hated each other for a long stretch, states versus federal rights.

I found a caricature of Lincoln showing him as a chimp.
 
barbos said:
steve_bank said:
barbos said:
aupmanyav said:
Harry Bosch said:
.. Russia is truly afraid of tiny Ukraine invading Russia ..
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Well, Trump declared in the UNGC that Ukraine is well on its way to regain the lost territory and perhaps beyond.
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Ukrainians openly talk about taking Moscow.
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Yes of course. Moscow was always part of Ukraine.
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Well, they talk about that.
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Yes of course.

Ukraine wants to replace Russians in Russian with Ukrainians.

It was Crimea that invaded Russia not the other way around. Russia was always part of Crimea.

Poland was always part of Russia, Putin has a right to invade Poland and take it back. If he has so much trouble with Ukraine I don't think he'd get very far in Poland.

And of course Lithuania, Estonia,Moldavia and others. All rightfully Russia's?

I suggest you go to a Polish bar, sit own, and start telling them they are Nazis to their faces. I think you will find they hate Russians as much as Nazis for the occupations of Poland.

Stalin made a non aggression pact with Hillier for part of Poland. Russia invaded Poland along with Hitler. Russia helped Hitler start WWII.


Both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union invaded Poland in September 1939, with Germany attacking first on September 1st and the Soviet Union following on September 17th, pursuant to a secret agreement. The German-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact, signed in August 1939, contained a secret protocol to divide Poland between the two powers, marking the beginning of World War II and leading to the partition of the country.
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Pol;and hates Russia for atrocities committed during and after the war.
 
steve_bank said:
Yes of course. Moscow was always part of Ukraine.
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Welcome to WWIII. I do not think Moscow was a part of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

1024px-Rzeczpospolita2nar.png
Click to enlarge the image.
 
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aupmanyav said:
steve_bank said:
Yes of course. Moscow was always part of Ukraine.
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Welcome to WWIII. I do not think Moscow was a part of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

1024px-Rzeczpospolita2nar.png
Click to enlarge the image.
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Thanks for the fact checking, but I was mocking Barbos and Putin's claims that

1 Ukraine as a culture never exited.
2 It has always been part of Russia.
3. Putin has a right to seize Ukraine and replace it with Russian culture.

I had a philosophy teacher in the 70s who grew up in Lithuania and experienced both the Nazis and the post war Russian occupation. He fought inn the underground and had a few stories to tel abo0ut the Russians.

Putin is a modern Stalin. He is limited by NATO and other factors, but still in the mod of Stalin.

en.wikipedia.org

Occupation of the Baltic states - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The Baltic states—Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania—were occupied and annexed by the Soviet Union in 1940 and remained under its control until its dissolution in 1991. For a period of several years during World War II, Nazi Germany occupied the Baltic states after it invaded the Soviet Union in 1941.

The initial Soviet invasion and occupation of the Baltic states began in June 1940 under the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, made between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany in August 1939, before the outbreak of World War II.[1][2] The three independent Baltic countries were annexed as constituent Republics of the Soviet Union in August 1940. Most Western countries did not recognise this annexation, and considered it illegal.[3][4] In July 1941, the occupation of the Baltic states by Nazi Germany took place, just weeks after its invasion of the Soviet Union. The Third Reich incorporated them into its Reichskommissariat Ostland. In 1944, the Soviet Union recaptured most of the Baltic states as a result of the Red Army's Baltic Offensive, trapping the remaining German forces in the Courland Pocket until their formal surrender in May 1945.[5]
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You could say Russia enabled the start of WWII, Hitler did nit have to worry abut a Russian attack.
 
steve_bank said:
1 Ukraine as a culture never exited.
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Neither Putin nor I have ever made such a claim.
Ukraine as a state has never existed. As for the culture, there is hardly any difference between Russia and Ukraine.
Current nazis have tried to cleanse their culture of anything russian and were left with nothing but ..... Bandera.
steve_bank said:
2 It has always been part of Russia.
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It was sometimes occupied by poles. Nobody disputes that.
The point is, they have never been independent state.
steve_bank said:
Putin has a right to seize Ukraine and replace it with Russian culture
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Well, Eastern Ukraine as you should know by now is literally Russia. Central Ukraine (including Kiev) is basically Russia and Western, well, has complicated history with austro-hungarian empire conducting genocide against russians there.

What nazi supporters like you are claiming is:
1. Ukraine has no russians
2. Ukraine has nothing to do with Russia culturally or otherwise.
 
Ukrainian culture is basically a series of lame attempts to gain independence from Russia by plotting against Russia with other European powers (Swedes, poles and now whole EU)
 
aupmanyav said:
steve_bank said:
Putin is a modern Stalin. He is limited by NATO and other factors, but still in the mod of Stalin.
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Americans now have their own Putin/Stalin.
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He wants to be authoritarian ruler, but he is limited by the courts and constitution.

We still have habeas corpus, the rule against arbitrary detainment without cause.

He can not completely corrupt the justice system. And as much as Trump tries to pressures free speech, we are no danger of loosing it. It is under attack, but it will go on.

Unlike Russia.
 
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