How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Loren Pechtel]

Russian ammunition only works one times out of three

It's actually other way around. US was shipping expired ammo to their nazis. In particular javelines your orange piece of shit is so proud of were shipped with expired batteries and simply did not work.

Hey, what became of my response?

Of course the Javelins were old, standard military practice is to shoot the old stuff first. But you're making the mistake of thinking batteries are what's going to go--stuff like that generally uses molten salt batteries, very long shelf life. (We don't see them in the civilian world because they're designed to give a hefty amount of power for seconds or at the most minutes, as soon as the heating element burns out they're gone whether or not you actually used the power. Good for weapons, not so good for much of anything else.)

 

[TV and credit cards]

Here's a little info on the state of Russia's economy.
Putin’s War Economy Reaches Limit According to the 2026 draft budget data
Military expenditures have topped out without raising taxes.

About IStories

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Russia wants war or ‘war’ as a distraction fir how badly Putin is failing his country.

Plus they’d like a sea access….

Disagree. Russia wants all those minerals. They thought it would be easy.

You are remarkably deluded. First of all, Ukraine does not have much of anythyng, and most of that not much is in Russain controlled territory already.

And now Russia can't afford to lose because that would show their army to be a paper tiger and likely cause other provinces to rebel. Ukraine is Alderaan.

Nobody is going to rebel and Russia is not a paper tiger, you are (Afghanistan).
However, Putin personally can not leave Ukraine because it would be "What the fuck?"
We are winning and we are going to win.

Afghanistan was basically unwinnable. Unwinnable for you because we armed the insurgents, unwinnable for us because Pakistan armed them.

If your army wasn't a paper tiger the war would have been over in days. That's what everyone expected. And then we watched you mess up so badly that you failed to take an easy victory. Ukraine didn't stop your column, your inability to support it did.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

it's a bit more complicated. First of all, there should be clear evidence of intent to invade the airspace.
In this particular case russian planes were flying parallel to the line, which was not even well defined.
Second of all, NATO did not challenged it well.

There have been many incidents, I don't keep up with the details.

The line is always clear so I presume your claim is wrong.

Care is expected to be taken with regard to malfunctions (your conduct with the Korean airliner was reprehensible.)

What you suggested above basically means that you would shoot that passenger plane.
And you should have been quiet after SR-71 flight through Russia. So don't play stupid games and you won't get stupid prizes.

No, because you didn't challenge it and as I said to be aware of malfunctions. That was a navigation error, you were so obsessed with enemies that you failed to realize it was a regularly scheduled passenger plane off course (remember, that was before GPS.)

You never had anything that could hit the SR-71. You did hit that U-2, note that the world recognized you had the right to do that.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The nuclear threat is Putin holding a gun to his own head.

Fanatics who are genuinely prepared to die, as long as they take a lot of others with them, are rare; The 9/11 hijackers are the exception that proves the rule. Putin is not a religious fanatic in that mould - he doesn't anticipate paradise for his martyrdom.

He won't use his nukes, even if he has any that still work, because he knows that a few minutes after he does, he, his family, his friends (if any), his armies, and their immediate environs, will be rapidly expanding clouds of radioactive gas and dust.

At least, I hope he knows that. And that the world's other nuclear powers remind him of it at every opportunity.

Disagree. He will not use a nuke against a nuclear power. He probably won't use a nuke against a western power. That doesn't mean he wouldn't use a nuke against Ukraine, though.

I am pretty sure that he is on notice from at least three of the other nuclear powers that such an action would not be tolerated.

Certainly the only way to maintain deterrence is to make clear that first use against any state, nuclear armed or not, will provoke a retailiatory strike.

During the Cuban Misslie Crisis, JFK said “It shall be the policy of this nation to regard any nuclear missile launched from Cuba against any nation in the Western Hemisphere as an attack by the Soviet Union on the United States, requiring a full retaliatory response upon the Soviet Union”

The only way to prevent first use by anyone, is for at least one of the other nuclear powers to state, unequivocally and believably, that all such use, against anyone, demands a retaliatory response against the leadership and remaining nuclear arsenal of the nation responsible.

Words. Doesn't mean we will incinerate Moscow because a third party got hit unless we are pretty confident he won't be able to shoot back.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Russia wants war or ‘war’ as a distraction fir how badly Putin is failing his country.

Plus they’d like a sea access….

Disagree. Russia wants all those minerals. They thought it would be easy.

You are remarkably deluded. First of all, Ukraine does not have much of anythyng, and most of that not much is in Russain controlled territory already.

And now Russia can't afford to lose because that would show their army to be a paper tiger and likely cause other provinces to rebel. Ukraine is Alderaan.

Nobody is going to rebel and Russia is not a paper tiger, you are (Afghanistan).
However, Putin personally can not leave Ukraine because it would be "What the fuck?"
We are winning and we are going to win.

If Ukraine has so little to offer, Russia should just withdraw and stop killing people. Fewer Russians will die as a benefit to Russia and it will be less expensive.

How did Afghanistan work out for Russia? Ukraine is the same in that respect.

Actually, Ukraine is far worse in that respect.

We knew we were arming hotheads in Afghanistan, we only gave them fairly light stuff and those Stingers didn't have a long shelf life.

We are giving Ukraine far more potent weapons.

 

[steve_bank]

Drones flying over Danish and Polish militray installations. Militarily jets unavailing NATO airspace.

Russia has is own GPS system and has access to the other GPS systems. A fighter jet accidentally flying over Poland is unlikely.

That is it is intentional is clear.

Putin is out of options and may be irrational. Trying to intimidate NATO.

Following multiple recent violations by Russian aircraft, including both drones and fighter jets, NATO has debated a more robust response, potentially including shooting down intruding aircraft
. Recent incursions have occurred in the airspace of Estonia, Poland, Romania, Norway, and Denmark. NATO has historically shown restraint, but the recent surge in violations has raised alarms about Russian intentions.

 

[barbos]

According to your own data, Russia makes 4 times more ammunition than EU/US combined.

Ammunition is pretty useless if you can't get it to the front because your railways have been bombed and your trucks are out of fuel due to drone strikes on your refineries and pipelines.

Russia is fucked.

Well, According to your data Russia uses 10 times more shells than your nazis. In fact your nazi scum talks about drones only.
Don't know what happened to your famous M777.

Lots of shells fired from worn-out barrels that can't hit the broad side of a barn.

And have you guys ever figured out how to counter-battery dispersed guns?

You need to figure out how to stop being so fucking slow.

 

[barbos]

Russian ammunition only works one times out of three

It's actually other way around. US was shipping expired ammo to their nazis. In particular javelines your orange piece of shit is so proud of were shipped with expired batteries and simply did not work.

Hey, what became of my response?

Of course the Javelins were old, standard military practice is to shoot the old stuff first. But you're making the mistake of thinking batteries are what's going to go--stuff like that generally uses molten salt batteries, very long shelf life. (We don't see them in the civilian world because they're designed to give a hefty amount of power for seconds or at the most minutes, as soon as the heating element burns out they're gone whether or not you actually used the power. Good for weapons, not so good for much of anything else.)

It uses ordinary battery for targeting, educate yourself before pretending to be knowledgeable.

 

[barbos]

Here's a little info on the state of Russia's economy.
Putin’s War Economy Reaches Limit According to the 2026 draft budget data
Military expenditures have topped out without raising taxes.

About IStories

Bullshit!! Russian economy is in tatters since Obama. Russia had run out of missiles in march 1022!

 

[barbos]

Drones flying over Danish and Polish militray installations

Which have nothing to do with Russia.

 

[steve_bank]

Drones flying over Danish and Polish militray installations

Which have nothing to do with Russia.

Of course Russian js on camera over Poland have nothing to do with Russia .....

Putin has painted himself into a corner. He has no way out that will sane face for him. Trump has gone from appearing easy on Putin to aggressive opposition. Saying Russian jets be shot down by NATO.

If ot comes to war Russia will loose. You will suffer.

 

[barbos]

Of course Russian js on camera over Poland have nothing to do with Russia .....

You just admitted Ukraine being part of Russia.

Putin has painted himself into a corner

Looks more like a center of a ring with the west in the corner to me.

 

[barbos]

Gilbert Doktorow, Criticism of Putin with which I fully agree:

 

[TV and credit cards]

And I wake up this morning to this aptly timed story about the Russian economy: MOSCOW, Oct 9 (Reuters)
Lots of juicy tidbits in this one. Even a Stalin reference. Yes, I said Stalin. But the one I like the best is that Russia is now being flooded with Chinese, Iranian, and Belarusian imports. That would be cool if China played no small part in the cracking of Russia's economy. China is going to wring this country out like an old mop.
It reads, Putin put a moratorium on bankruptcies. However the hell that works. Does the government have the means to bail them out? Maybe China can buy them. These are some of Russia's largest companies reporting dire straits. Some are moving to a four day work week. That would be best read as 4/5ths paycheck. Oh well. Three day weekends is an extra 24 hours of drinking. When Putin lowers the minimum cost of vodka, then we'll know, it's game over.

 

[barbos]

And I wake up this morning to this aptly timed story about the Russian economy: MOSCOW, Oct 9 (Reuters)
Lots of juicy tidbits in this one. Even a Stalin reference. Yes, I said Stalin. But the one I like the best is that Russia is now being flooded with Chinese, Iranian, and Belarusian imports. That would be cool if China played no small part in the cracking of Russia's economy. China is going to wring this country out like an old mop.
It reads, Putin put a moratorium on bankruptcies. However the hell that works. Does the government have the means to bail them out? Maybe China can buy them. These are some of Russia's largest companies reporting dire straits. Some are moving to a four day work week. That would be best read as 4/5ths paycheck. Oh well. Three day weekends is an extra 24 hours of drinking. When Putin lowers the minimum cost of vodka, then we'll know, it's game over.

Bullshit! complete and utter bullshit

 

[steve_bank]

Of course Russian js on camera over Poland have nothing to do with Russia .....

You just admitted Ukraine being part of Russia.

Putin has painted himself into a corner

Looks more like a center of a ring with the west in the corner to me.

Admitted Ukrainian is part of Russia? Ukraine was one of the Soviet client states. One of several that went independent when the Soviets collapsed. Collapsed because the economy could not support the population AND militarily spending, among other things.

I said it is irrational for Putin to violate NATO airspace. If war comes it will be you and your fellow Russians who will suffer.

The Russian economy is given over to war production.

We might feel the effects a little, but Russia has little to do with the global economy.

The EU and North America has plenty of food, goods, and services.

Putin threatened Norway with 'serious consequences' and would move troops to the border if it joined NATO. Empty saber rattling. Russia is a paper tiger.

Putin is delusional. Years of his empty rhetoric and threats are piling up. At te tsrt he said if NSTO supplies aid he will use nukes.

The question as I see it is if Putin will resort to nuclear weapons and take Russia down in flames with him, like Hitler did Germany.

Feel free to forward to Vlad.

Vlad, do you really want your people to suffer a needless war with NATO?

 

[barbos]

Admitted Ukrainian is part of Russia?

Yes. It's pretty much certainty that Ukraine launched these "russian" drones

Ukraine was one of the Soviet client states.

Nope, Eastern Europe states were Soviet client states.
Ukraine had been part of Russia before USSR.
You keep demonstrating your utter ignorance.

 

[barbos]

I said it is irrational for Putin to violate NATO airspace.

And since Putin is nothing but rational we can infer that NATO airspace was not violated and your lady-fuhrer is lying

 

[steve_bank]

Barbos

Your protestations are irrelevant.

Russia agreed to support Ukraine independence and violated the agreement.
Putin blundered in invading Ukraine. It has been years and Russians are dyeing.
NATO had become complacent, no threat to Russia. The invasion brought NATO to life.
The invasion forced neutral states to join NATO.
Russia ran out soldiers, had to use NK troops.

Russia is causing Ukraine to suffer, in turn Russians are suffering. Dead and crippled soldiers. Drone stacks on Russia. Gasoline shortages. An economy headed for trouble.

The western alliance is not suffering.

Posture all you like. Russia is in trouble.