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How should west respond to Russian invasion of Ukraine?

 
 
 
barbos said:
DrZoidberg said:
Its a question of dedication. Russias entire combined economy is tiny, inefficient and underdeveloped. It has the capacity of output on par with Italy. If the west wanted to crush Russa, they could do so easily. Right now, the west is supporting Ukraine to a level where it won't hurt us economically. We don't have war time economies right now. Russia does. Russia is sacrificing future prosperity to win this. The west isn't. Even if Russia wins this war will be highly economically destructive for Russia for generations to come. Why is Putin doing this? Obviously, because he doesn't care about Russian prosperity. He only seems to care about staying in power
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Do you ever get tired of posting this BS?
Russia is the largest economy in Europe now. Yes, bigger than Germany.
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Based on land mass, yes. But what other economic measure puts Russia atop for economy?
barbos said:
DrZoidberg said:
If the west wanted to crush Russa, they could do so easily
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But you already tried exactly that and you failed, utterly failed.
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Yes, we all know Dr. Zoidberg's single-handed and laughable attempt to crush Russia failed. But NATO hasn't even tried.
barbos said:
Your whole plan for Ukraine war was about that. And it failed.
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I thought Ukraine was about killing the Nazis. Odd, how it goes from self-defense against NATO to killing Nazis, back to self-defense against NATO.
 
barbos said:
Loren Pechtel said:
DrZoidberg said:

Nukes. That's the reason. Russia has lots of fully operational long range ballistic nukes that can strike any target in Europe at any time.
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Fully operational?

We have seen half their conventional missiles fail. Everyone knows the nukes won't fly, it's a good place to loot from. I would be very surprised if even half their birds work. I certainly wouldn't be on zero birds working but neither would I be shocked at such an outcome.
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So you are willing to test this theory of yours?
You are all insane here in this thread. All of you.
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Well, it has been your crazy side that has been threatening the world with nukes. Quote me a western politician threatening Putler with nukes?!!
 
Next month the US, UK, and Canada will present proposals to the G7 to finally utilize the $300 billion in frozen Russian assets. The annual meeting is in June so hopefully by then Putin can bid a final farewell to his stash.
Ukraine can use Russia's money to fuck up Russia.
 
TV and credit cards said:
Next month the US, UK, and Canada will present proposals to the G7 to finally utilize the $300 billion in frozen Russian assets. The annual meeting is in June so hopefully by then Putin can bid a final farewell to his stash.
Ukraine can use Russia's money to fuck up Russia.
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Is it just me, or is this a meeting that should have been held last month, not next month?
Barring that, how about tomorrow?

They needn't even decide on the whole amount, just funnel $20-30B immediately if not before.
How about that?
Tom
 
barbos said:
DrZoidberg said:
Its a question of dedication. Russias entire combined economy is tiny, inefficient and underdeveloped. It has the capacity of output on par with Italy. If the west wanted to crush Russa, they could do so easily. Right now, the west is supporting Ukraine to a level where it won't hurt us economically. We don't have war time economies right now. Russia does. Russia is sacrificing future prosperity to win this. The west isn't. Even if Russia wins this war will be highly economically destructive for Russia for generations to come. Why is Putin doing this? Obviously, because he doesn't care about Russian prosperity. He only seems to care about staying in power
Click to expand...
Do you ever get tired of posting this BS?
Russia is the largest economy in Europe now. Yes, bigger than Germany.
Click to expand...

Lol


barbos said:
DrZoidberg said:
If the west wanted to crush Russa, they could do so easily
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But you already tried exactly that and you failed, utterly failed.
Your whole plan for Ukraine war was about that. And it failed.
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"You"!?! What did I do? I'm lying writing in a pool with a piña colada in my other hand. I'm not fighting in this war.

No, the west is fighting this war with minimal effort. Its a proxy war. The west is giving Ukraine, just enough not to collapse. Hoping that the Ukraine will use their help for leverage to win in an attrition war. The west doesn't want to fight this war for Ukraine. USA has done that before. It has a bad track record. Ukraine is also not a small country. They have the necessary manpower.

The west hasn't begun to break a sweat here. But its a complicated situation. Ukraine is not a modern western democracy. Its a corrupt mess. We do NOT want to end up helping some Ukrainian oligarch to take over Ukraine
 
DrZoidberg said:
The west hasn't begun to break a sweat here.
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True. Nor will we.
If Democrats win the presidency and control of the House, Russia will be up shit creek, will probably lose Ukraine including Crimea, and Putler will likely be put out of his misery by his successors. But it won’t be US boots on the ground.
If Trump wins, of course Ukraine will be gifted to Putler for saving his ass. Because without Pootey’s troll farms and people like babs, Trump would never have gained control of the GOP. But Trump will take the US out of NATO, and without the US, NATO will be more of a paper tiger.
 
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Elixir said:
But Trump will take the US out of NATO, and without the US, NATO will be more of a paper tiger.
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That's not even a guarantee anymore. Europe is so sick of Putin's bullshit they are forming defense coalitions independent of the US. Like the Nordic Joint Air Defence or UK/Norwegian Naval Agreements. Don't get me wrong, having the US is still obviously preferable but in the long run if Trump still wanted to please his pimp I could see Saab, BAE, Dassault and FN pick up the slack and Northrop, General Dynamics and Raytheon taking massive profit cuts after Europe tells them to go fuck themselves.
 
Patooka said:
Elixir said:
But Trump will take the US out of NATO, and without the US, NATO will be more of a paper tiger.
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That's not even a guarantee anymore. Europe is so sick of Putin's bullshit they are forming defense coalitions independent of the US. Like the Nordic Joint Air Defence or UK/Norwegian Naval Agreements. Don't get me wrong, having the US is still obviously preferable but in the long run if Trump still wanted to please his pimp I could see Saab, BAE, Dassault and FN pick up the slack and Northrop, General Dynamics and Raytheon taking massive profit cuts after Europe tells them to go fuck themselves.
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Nice job you did there, Pooty.
 
So, almost 2 years on, how's that whole 'swift victory in Ukraine" thing going?

Whoopsie Daisy

During Russia’s New Year’s show The Little Blue Light 12 months ago, one of its hosts, Dmitry Guberniev assured the viewers that victory in Ukraine was near. He said, “Life is like a biathlon or ski racing. If you’re having a hard time, then the finish line is near.” During the same program, comedian Yevgeny Petrosyan claimed that the West had tried to destroy Russia but instead was forced to freeze and suffer without Russian gas supplies. He boasted: “Like it or not, Russia is enlarging!”

The mood was markedly different during this year’s festivities. Instead of laughing at the West, Petrosyan wished fellow Russians to have “barns and cellars that are fully stocked and regularly replenished with patience and optimism.”
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Elixir said:
DrZoidberg said:
The west hasn't begun to break a sweat here.
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True. Nor will we.
If Democrats win the presidency and control of the House, Russia will be up shit creek, will probably lose Ukraine including Crimea, and Putler will likely be put out of his misery by his successors. But it won’t be US boots on the ground.
If Trump wins, of course Ukraine will be gifted to Putler for saving his ass. Because without Pootey’s troll farms and people like babs, Trump would never have gained control of the GOP. But Trump will take the US out of NATO, and without the US, NATO will be more of a paper tiger.
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To be honest, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Europeans have become fat and lazy, because we're assuming USA will bail us out all the time. Europe's generous healthcare systems are only possible because we spend so little on defence. It warps Europeans understanding of how much it costs to have an effective army. It makes us dependent on USA and makes us passive.

I'm not saying Trump is good for the world. But I agree with Trump that Europeans should pay more for NATO. Its only fair. That's just how I see it, as a European.
 
DrZoidberg said:
But I agree with Trump that Europeans should pay more for NATO.
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Trump certainly said that. It's debatable that he actually believes it. If Europe actually did pay more that would mean those MIC factories in Alabama, Virginia etc would close down. Same to be said about those training bases like Fort Johnson (or at the very least be scaled back). The unemployment in MAGAstan would skyrocket.
 
Patooka said:
barbos said:
Do you ever get tired of posting this BS?
Russia is the largest economy in Europe now. Yes, bigger than Germany.
Click to expand...
Now who's talking bullshit?

View attachment 45107

Unsupported

www.google.com www.google.com

Yeah, the ruble's doing great :rolleyes:. It's worth every penny.
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When this thread started I began researching ways to short the Russian economy in general. Regrettably, I got as far as I got in my math course with Unknown Soldier before things tanked & trading halted.
 
Patooka said:
DrZoidberg said:
But I agree with Trump that Europeans should pay more for NATO.
Click to expand...
Trump certainly said that. It's debatable that he actually believes it. If Europe actually did pay more that would mean those MIC factories in Alabama, Virginia etc would close down. Same to be said about those training bases like Fort Johnson (or at the very least be scaled back). The unemployment in MAGAstan would skyrocket.
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There's also the little detail that the current elites of USA are based around America as the world police. If that changes, it will necessarily shift those power dynamics. Just because something is good for USA as a whole, doesn’t mean the small group of families who have power currently will endorse it.
 
DrZoidberg said:
Europe's generous healthcare systems are only possible because we spend so little on defence.
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Sure. But the flip side is that the USA's massive and bloated military is only possible because they spend so little on healthcare, or indeed, on anything else the people might actually need.
 
bilby said:
DrZoidberg said:
Europe's generous healthcare systems are only possible because we spend so little on defence.
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Sure. But the flip side is that the USA's massive and bloated military is only possible because they spend so little on healthcare, or indeed, on anything else the people might actually need.
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Yes, absolutely. There's a reason American life expectancy is shorter than the European average. Its a very obvious explanation
 
bilby said:
DrZoidberg said:
Europe's generous healthcare systems are only possible because we spend so little on defence.
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Sure. But the flip side is that the USA's massive and bloated military is only possible because they spend so little on healthcare, or indeed, on anything else the people might actually need.
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I think if you look it up the US per capita spending on health care is about twice that of most European countries. We just waste a ton of money on for profit health care, rediculous paperwork and lawyers.
 
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