Hurricane Harvey and Climate Change

[Ford]

The hysteria tells me different.

Source?

 

[skepticalbip]

The hysteria tells me different.




Climate change is natural. It changed in the past and it will change in the future.

The current rate and direction of change is not natural (i.e. it's anthropogenic).

Why do you think that it should be getting colder and how fast should it change?

Evidence is that global temperature increased over five degrees Centigrade in less than a decade at the end of the Younger Dryas. Was that natural? If you know and can explain how this happened then there are a lot of climatologists that would be all ears.

 

[RavenSky]

The hysteria tells me different.

Source?

His own hysteria?

 

[TSwizzle]

The hysteria tells me different.




Climate change is natural. It changed in the past and it will change in the future.

The current rate and direction of change is not natural (i.e. it's anthropogenic).

No, not really.

 

[blastula]

The current rate and direction of change is not natural (i.e. it's anthropogenic).

Why do you think that it should be getting colder and how fast should it change?

Because I listen to what the science says, which says that earth would have cooled slightly over the last fifty years without humans.

Evidence is that global temperature increased over five degrees Centigrade in less than a decade at the end of the Younger Dryas. Was that natural? If you know and can explain how this happened then there are a lot of climatologists that would be all ears.

That it changed fast at one time without human involvement, doesn't mean it's changing fast now without human involvement.

Global warming skeptics operate on the strange premise that if something ever occurs naturally without humans, it can only ever occur natural without humans. It's like saying because forest fires have always occurred, humans can't be a cause of forest fires (and shouldn't bother trying to prevent them).

- - - Updated - - -

The current rate and direction of change is not natural (i.e. it's anthropogenic).

No, not really.

Because?

 

[skepticalbip]

Why do you think that it should be getting colder and how fast should it change?

Because I listen to what the science says, which says that earth would have cooled slightly over the last fifty years without humans.
.

Really? Do you have a link to those papers? I would love to see them. I have been following scientific papers by climate scientists since the 1980s when the media was panicking over "the coming ice age" and I have not seen the papers you referred to.

Is it possible that you are confusing some politician, journalist, or media personality for scientists?

 

[TSwizzle]

That it changed fast at one time without human involvement, doesn't mean it's changing fast now without human involvement.

One time ? The climate has had many changes over time. It's the nature of things.

Global warming skeptics operate on the strange premise that if something ever occurs naturally without humans, it can only ever occur natural without humans. It's like saying because forest fires have always occurred, humans can't be a cause of forest fires (and shouldn't bother trying to prevent them).

It's odd how the alarmists have turned things on its head. "On this occasion, the climate is changing because of humans !!"

 

[Elixir]

One time ? The climate has had many changes over time. It's the nature of things.

Not this fast:



And see this.

 

[rousseau]

It's unfortunate, but in a way I don't blame people.

People don't want to accept that the beautiful world we created in the last hundred years might have been a huge mistake. They don't want to accept that our stunning level of affluence, free-time, and worldly pleasures may become more and more at risk. They don't want to believe that 'God-like' human-kind may be stunningly fallible. Many just want to believe that they're in a nice little bubble, where the outside world can't touch them. They want to raise their kids in their yards, surrounded by picket-fences, and pretend that nothing is wrong.

To me it doesn't look much different from belief in religion. Climate change denial is akin to a psychological mechanism that lets people believe all is well, despite obvious, cruel, and harsh realities about the world around us. It shields people from the cognitive dissonance they'd experience if they accepted that human-kind is really not that great, smart, or meaningful.

Unfortunately, you can dodge your responsibilities, but you can't dodge the consequences of dodging your responsibilities, as we are now (not in the future) witnessing.

The earth's climate has never been stable. Why people think that the climate shouldn't change is baffling. That they think they can control the climate is the religion.

The climate will always change, but if you're about to get hit by a car you at least try to get out of the way, you don't just wait to get hit.

 

[blastula]

Because I listen to what the science says, which says that earth would have cooled slightly over the last fifty years without humans.
.

Really? Do you have a link to those papers? I would love to see them. I have been following scientific papers by climate scientists since the 1980s when the media was panicking over "the coming ice age" and I have not seen the papers you referred to.

Is it possible that you are confusing some politician, journalist, or media personality for scientists?

From the National Climate Assessment

In fact, if not for human activities, global climate would actually have cooled slightly over the past 50 years.

 

[blastula]

One time ? The climate has had many changes over time. It's the nature of things.

I didn't mean ONLY one time. That it has changed more than once doesn't affect the point that that is not good argument that humans aren't affecting it now.

Global warming skeptics operate on the strange premise that if something ever occurs naturally without humans, it can only ever occur natural without humans. It's like saying because forest fires have always occurred, humans can't be a cause of forest fires (and shouldn't bother trying to prevent them).

It's odd how the alarmists have turned things on its head. "On this occasion, the climate is changing because of humans !!"

On what head? Explain.

Why is not changing because of humans? And try to answer without repeating the fallacy that it's because it has changed before without humans. We're talking about why it's changing right now, not some other time.

 

[skepticalbip]

Really? Do you have a link to those papers? I would love to see them. I have been following scientific papers by climate scientists since the 1980s when the media was panicking over "the coming ice age" and I have not seen the papers you referred to.

Is it possible that you are confusing some politician, journalist, or media personality for scientists?

From the National Climate Assessment

In fact, if not for human activities, global climate would actually have cooled slightly over the past 50 years.

I appreciate the link but that isn't a research paper. This isn't science, it is opinion of whoever wrote the "summary" without even giving the name or credentials of who did write it that I have found. I am trying to find the actual research that this is supposed to be based on to see if the "summary" has any actual scientific basis. However the "certainty" expressed looks more like a Gorism than science.

 

[TSwizzle]

Why is not changing because of humans? And try to answer without repeating the fallacy that it's because it has changed before without humans. We're talking about why it's changing right now, not some other time.

Climate has always fluctuated, that's not a fallacy, it's a fact. Alarmists are obsessed with this one point in time about a small fluctuation that has occurred any number of times in the past and will occur again in the future. Bonkers.

 

[TSwizzle]

The earth's climate has never been stable. Why people think that the climate shouldn't change is baffling. That they think they can control the climate is the religion.

The climate will always change, but if you're about to get hit by a car you at least try to get out of the way, you don't just wait to get hit.

Do you honestly believe that humans can control the climate to any significant effect ?

 

[rousseau]

I suspect the historical view on scientific progress is going to change drastically in a century or two, when people finally figure out what the hell just happened.

"The Industrial Revolution enabled developed nations to consume resources and pollute the environment at a rate that quickly led to environmental catastrophe. We've since invented our way out of those problems and it was nice to have a bit of a fresh start.

"Also, we noticed that while a few humans are very clever, groups of humans are really fucking stupid."

Let's hope.

At this stage of the game I'm not entirely sure anyone has a clear picture of what the future holds.

Humans themselves will live through it, but what the world will look like in 2300, 2400? 3000? Your guess is as good as mine.

 

[bigfield]

The climate will always change, but if you're about to get hit by a car you at least try to get out of the way, you don't just wait to get hit.

Do you honestly believe that humans can control the climate to any significant effect ?

When all else fails.

 

[repoman]

The climate will always change, but if you're about to get hit by a car you at least try to get out of the way, you don't just wait to get hit.

Do you honestly believe that humans can control the climate to any significant effect ?

So, Triple-negrepper, the main control knob of the climate has moved from 275 ppm to 405 ppm in a geological blink of an eye and it is headed much higher. All of that is due to human activity.

We are also sitting on a powder keg with the Tundra about to thaw and emit very large amounts of stored CO2 from the bacterial decomposition of that stored organic matter. Further down the road will be the realease of methane hydrates of the bottom of the ocean as it warms.

I don't fully understand why you don't get this. Maybe it is because given your political alignment you are listening to people who also spout these tired lies about climate change being bullshit.Have you watched Stevej Crowder "debunk" it? Be honest. Left and right political stances for human society should have ZERO overlap with the scientific FACT of human caused global warming. You have been hoodwinked. Man up do some research and admit it.

 

[Elixir]

We are also sitting on a powder keg with the Tundra about to thaw and emit very large amounts of stored CO2 from the bacterial decomposition of that stored organic matter. Further down the road will be the realease of methane hydrates of the bottom of the ocean as it warms.

The potential of the release of methane hydrates (clathrates) to trigger displacement tsunamis is conscientiously ignored by the media, but could be a death blow to coastal communities. Of course the climate denyers will maintain their "c'est la vie" attitudes, even after any calamity - after all, there is evidence that 100'+ tsunamis have struck in the past... so no big deal.

 

[rousseau]

The climate will always change, but if you're about to get hit by a car you at least try to get out of the way, you don't just wait to get hit.

Do you honestly believe that humans can control the climate to any significant effect ?

Maybe, maybe not. But is there any harm in trying to mitigate the impact? What if we do nothing and we could have changed it's course?

Life by it's very definition is uncertain and subject to probability, our job is to do our best to react to environmental changes. Climate change would be an environmental change that it makes sense to react to.

 

[repoman]

Do you honestly believe that humans can control the climate to any significant effect ?

Maybe, maybe not. But is there any harm in trying to mitigate the impact? What if we do nothing and we could have changed it's course?

Life by it's very definition is uncertain and subject to probability, our job is to do our best to react to environmental changes. Climate change would be an environmental change that it makes sense to react to.

Your response is a win for the people that TSwizzle is acting as an ignorant mouthpiece for. You are conceding that climate change is maybe not happening. A modicum of research will show you that it is happening.