I agree more with Bernie, but am supporting Hillary.

[Tristan Scott]

I agree with almost all of Bernie's positions-always have, but the reason I will stick with Clinton has more to do with Bernie's supporters than with Bernie.

Back in 2008 many of these same supporters, and first time voters came out and helped elect President Obama. Then they abandoned him, few of them showing up in the 2010 elections, allowing the Republicans to reclaim the house. This trend repeated in 2014 and the republicans took the senate as well.

The thing these people don't seem to understand is that a president really can't change much of anything without congress. If all you do is show up every four years to vote for president, your not going to make much of anything happen. If you want the country to go more towards socialism you are going to have to work your butt off at the local level to get a socialist leaning congressman elected in your district. Sanders' supporters seem to think that all they need to do is get him elected president and all the goodies he's promising will magically happen. They evidently weren't paying attention in civics class.

I'll stick with Hillary because I believe she has a better handle on how to get things done; she understands that change happens slowly in this country-thats the way our government is designed-I think she'll mange to get some things done that congress will agree on-seemingly modest things-things that will nonetheless be helpful to a lot of people like childcare assistance. More importantly, I believe she will continue to see to it that regulations are enforced, which in my opinion is one of the most important duties of a president-although I'm pretty sure Sanders would do the same.

But mainly, even if Clinton ends up with a republican congress, I think she will be able to make the best of it.

I will say that I'm happy with both of our candidates and when I look over and see the train wreck that the republican party has become-it makes me even more thankful.

 

[zorq]

I agree with almost all of Bernie's positions-always have, but the reason I will stick with Clinton has more to do with Bernie's supporters than with Bernie.

Maybe you weren't paying attention to what happened with Obama. Obama was and is a moderate.

He proposed the REPUBLICAN health care plan dreamed up by the super conservative Heritgate foundation and implemented and praised by REPUBLICAN govenor Mitt Romney.

Did Obama the moderate have ANY luck bridging the gap with Republicans? NO!The health care bill barely passed when the DEMOCRATS controlled congress.

Moderates CAN NOT make progress with republicans. Modern Republicans are incapable of compromise. No. Don't support the moderate in hopes of compromise . Support the candidate you think actually represents you.

Maybe an "extreme" socialist in the white house will make the pansy bedwetter conservatives in conress more willing to take the more moderate approach. It's worth a shot isn't it? We tried the moderate. It didn't work.

And if this doesn't work either then we will have lost nothing.

 

[Deepak]

And if this doesn't work either then we will have lost nothing.

Moreover I don't see how this affects the problem of low turnout in congressional elections. A Hillary presidency doesn't have any better chance against a R controlled congress.

 

[Tristan Scott]

I agree with almost all of Bernie's positions-always have, but the reason I will stick with Clinton has more to do with Bernie's supporters than with Bernie.

Maybe you weren't paying attention to what happened with Obama. Obama was and is a moderate.
He proposed the REPUBLICAN health care plan dreamed up by the super conservative Heritgate foundation and implemented and praised by REPUBLICAN govenor Mitt Romney.

Oh, I was paying attention, but a lot of people weren't. Obama's original proposal for the ACA was quite a bit different, and more radical than what we ended up with. Contrary to Speaker Pelosi's assurances of easy passage the representatives found their constituents were uneasy with the bill in the form presented by the administration and consequently the House came up with their own watered down version, which is close to what we have now. Then the Senate made a few changes which allowed some of the purple state senators to vote for the bill which broke the republican filibuster. Yeah, I was paying attention.

Of course Obama's a moderate, that was clear when he ran, just as it was clear when he was in the senate. I still believe he's the best republican president we've had since Bill Clinton, but thats the point, Clinton did a pretty good job, and I think Hillary Clinton will too. Get some more socialists together and put them in congress- the tea party did, and if those morons can do it we should be able to as well.

As far as Bernie is concerned, if he gets the nomination I will go out there and support him 100%, but right now I'm supporting Hillary.

 

[Tristan Scott]

And if this doesn't work either then we will have lost nothing.

Moreover I don't see how this affects the problem of low turnout in congressional elections. A Hillary presidency doesn't have any better chance against a R controlled congress.

Yes, thats why I prefer Clinton, I believe she'll fare better with a republican congress, and I also think if she runs against Trump we will get the senate back and keep it for at least another six years.

And I believe she will pick Castro as a running mate, who I believe is one of the most dynamic young politicians in the country.

 

[J842P]

Yes, thats why I prefer Clinton, I believe she'll fare better with a republican congress, and I also think if she runs against Trump we will get the senate back and keep it for at least another six years.

Why do you think the latter, compared to Sanders?

 

[Tristan Scott]

Yes, thats why I prefer Clinton, I believe she'll fare better with a republican congress, and I also think if she runs against Trump we will get the senate back and keep it for at least another six years.

Why do you think the latter, compared to Sanders?

Oh, I think we will get the senate back anyway. Like I said my problem is not so much with Bernie but with his supporters. And Im generalizing here, I realize that. Many of his supporters Ive talked to are good democrats who will continue to support him, and who will support Clinton if she get the nomination. The problem I have is with the voters who only show up for the presidential election, who never take part in the party and then complain because they don't like the rules, etc. 538 did a piece on these voters a few weeks back based on polling, they called them millennial voters, and the polling numbers show the same thing, they only vote every four years, I think they equated it to only going to watch the blockbusters. I saw it at our county convention, lots of complaints about how things were run, but when I'd suggest that they volunteer to help out or to get involved in making the rules....crickets.

 

[Rhea]

And if this doesn't work either then we will have lost nothing.

Moreover I don't see how this affects the problem of low turnout in congressional elections. A Hillary presidency doesn't have any better chance against a R controlled congress.

However a Hillary nomination is expected to have a significant impact on whether the congress is republican. She is out raising money - lots of it - to support those down-tick candidates. So I think that's something significant she brings to the party and the nomination.


For the record, also initially a Bernie supporter and someone who will back him 100% if he wins the nomination, as I'll back Hillary if she wins.

 

[RavenSky]

Moreover I don't see how this affects the problem of low turnout in congressional elections. A Hillary presidency doesn't have any better chance against a R controlled congress.

However a Hillary nomination is expected to have a significant impact on whether the congress is republican. She is out raising money - lots of it - to support those down-tick candidates. So I think that's something significant she brings to the party and the nomination.


For the record, also initially a Bernie supporter and someone who will back him 100% if he wins the nomination, as I'll back Hillary if she wins.

^^^^ That

And I think the key point of Tristan's OP is this:

The thing these people don't seem to understand is that a president really can't change much of anything without congress. If all you do is show up every four years to vote for president, your not going to make much of anything happen. If you want the country to go more towards socialism you are going to have to work your butt off at the local level to get a socialist leaning congressman elected in your district. Sanders' supporters seem to think that all they need to do is get him elected president and all the goodies he's promising will magically happen. They evidently weren't paying attention in civics class.

And speaking of some of Bernie supporters (remember, I am one) - there was a self-proclaimed Bernie supporter going off on Facebook about why she won't support Hillary and I swear she was as rabid as any tea-partier ever dreamed of being. I could virtually see the spittle flying from her mouth as she went off on a multi-post rant about - of all things - health care. She claimed she still doesn't have any health care - as if the Affordable Care Act never happened and Hillary is personally responsible for its alter-world disappearance.

It was weird, and I just backed away slowly...

 

[Terrell]

I'm going blue, no matter who. The same applies to the down ticket races. I would have liked to have seen Harry Reid be willing to strip the Republicans of all ability to block legislation, other than a majority vote on the floor, in 2009 when they made it clear they were unwilling to cooperate with President Obama.

Left leaning voters, do need to get off their collective asses and vote in every election; only voting for president isn't enough. If the Democrats aren't liberal enough for you, work within the party to get it where you want it to be. It's not going to happen overnight, but you're going to have to do with the Democrats what the Religious Right did with the Republicans if you want the policies you want enacted.

 

[barbos]

I don't like Hillary, she is not genuine and a bit corrupted. But I keep thinking what if this is by design?
I mean she has to be careful with WallStreet scum, but once she is elected then she will be as she claims to be.
Her campaign seems awfully calculated.

 

[SLD]

I don't like Hillary, she is not genuine and a bit corrupted. But I keep thinking what if this is by design?
I mean she has to be careful with WallStreet scum, but once she is elected then she will be as she claims to be.
Her campaign seems awfully calculated.

Jeez. Listen to what you are saying. You don't like here? Who gives a fuck? This isn't some bullshit high school popularity contest. The question is whether she is better than the likely Republican nominee, Donald Trump.

Not genuine? What the fuck does that even mean? What exactly is false about her? Is there some statement that she's made that's false? If so we can discuss it. But politifact has her scored higher than Bernie Sanders on her statements.

Corrupted? How so exactly? More vague bullshit. Is it that she took money from Wall Street firms? I'm sure it's the first time in the history of presidential candidates.

Her campaign seems awfully calculated? Again, what fuck does that supposed to mean? She's running for President, what kind of campaign do you expect anyone to run? You want them not to think about what they say? Shit! That's the worst characteristic a President can have! Wars have been started for less.

Look you have only two choices: Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. You may not like the choices, but there are no other alternatives. Bernie will not win the nomination. It's over. The Repbulicans are falling in behind Trump. They won't dare deny him the nomination even if the convention is technically contested. No third party candidate is going to win a single electoral vote. You can bitch and moan all you want. You can say you'll never vote for that bitch, or that asshole, Trump, but in the end you have to choose. Even if that choice is third party or a non-vote you are hurting the preferred candidate. A vote that doesn't go for Clinton might as well be a vote for Trump, and vice versa.

Vote for Clinton. Trust me. She's 600x better than Trump, whatever her faults are.

SLD

 

[barbos]

I don't like Hillary, she is not genuine and a bit corrupted. But I keep thinking what if this is by design?
I mean she has to be careful with WallStreet scum, but once she is elected then she will be as she claims to be.
Her campaign seems awfully calculated.

Jeez. Listen to what you are saying. You don't like here? Who gives a fuck? This isn't some bullshit high school popularity contest. The question is whether she is better than the likely Republican nominee, Donald Trump.

Not genuine? What the fuck does that even mean? What exactly is false about her? Is there some statement that she's made that's false? If so we can discuss it. But politifact has her scored higher than Bernie Sanders on her statements.

Corrupted? How so exactly? More vague bullshit. Is it that she took money from Wall Street firms? I'm sure it's the first time in the history of presidential candidates.

Her campaign seems awfully calculated? Again, what fuck does that supposed to mean? She's running for President, what kind of campaign do you expect anyone to run? You want them not to think about what they say? Shit! That's the worst characteristic a President can have! Wars have been started for less.

Look you have only two choices: Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. You may not like the choices, but there are no other alternatives. Bernie will not win the nomination. It's over. The Repbulicans are falling in behind Trump. They won't dare deny him the nomination even if the convention is technically contested. No third party candidate is going to win a single electoral vote. You can bitch and moan all you want. You can say you'll never vote for that bitch, or that asshole, Trump, but in the end you have to choose. Even if that choice is third party or a non-vote you are hurting the preferred candidate. A vote that doesn't go for Clinton might as well be a vote for Trump, and vice versa.

Vote for Clinton. Trust me. She's 600x better than Trump, whatever her faults are.

SLD

Jeez, I mostly gave her compliments and you posted this.
By the way, OP compares Clinton with Bernie Sanders, not Trump.
And I can't vote since I am not a citizen.

 

[fromderinside]

Jeez, I mostly gave her compliments and you posted this.
By the way, OP compares Clinton with Bernie Sanders, not Trump.
And I can't vote since I am not a citizen.

I wonder what it would be like with all the nations around Russia having nucks. I mean India, Pakistan, Iran, Turkey, Iraq, Egypt, China, South Korea, Japan, Philippines, Georgia, Ukraine, Poland, Eastern EU nations, and the regulars Britain, France, Germany,. Canada, and the US. I wonder how far stuff like Putin's claims on territory because Russian ethnics live there would be tolerated by these mostly Muslim peoples. How about if we add Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania to that mix. Does Russia really want to face a bunch of Trumps?

I don't care how you do it go to Mississippi and vote for Hillary.

 

[barbos]

Jeez, I mostly gave her compliments and you posted this.
By the way, OP compares Clinton with Bernie Sanders, not Trump.
And I can't vote since I am not a citizen.

I wonder what it would be like with all the nations around Russia having nucks. I mean India, Pakistan, Iran, Turkey, Iraq, Egypt, China, South Korea, Japan, Philippines, Georgia, Ukraine, Poland, Eastern EU nations, and the regulars Britain, France, Germany,. Canada, and the US. I wonder how far stuff like Putin's claims on territory because Russian ethnics live there would be tolerated by these mostly Muslim peoples. How about if we add Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania to that mix. Does Russia really want to face a bunch of Trumps?

I don't care how you do it go to Mississippi and vote for Hillary.

Why everything have to be about Putin?

 

[fromderinside]

I wonder what it would be like with all the nations around Russia having nucks. I mean India, Pakistan, Iran, Turkey, Iraq, Egypt, China, South Korea, Japan, Philippines, Georgia, Ukraine, Poland, Eastern EU nations, and the regulars Britain, France, Germany,. Canada, and the US. I wonder how far stuff like Putin's claims on territory because Russian ethnics live there would be tolerated by these mostly Muslim peoples. How about if we add Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania to that mix. Does Russia really want to face a bunch of Trumps?

I don't care how you do it go to Mississippi and vote for Hillary.

Why everything have to be about Putin?

'cause he's a calculating power hungry asshole who likes to ride bare chested.

 

[barbos]

Why everything have to be about Putin?

'cause he's a calculating power hungry asshole who likes to ride bare chested.

Still don't see why

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Moreover I don't see how this affects the problem of low turnout in congressional elections. A Hillary presidency doesn't have any better chance against a R controlled congress.

Yes, thats why I prefer Clinton, I believe she'll fare better with a republican congress, and I also think if she runs against Trump we will get the senate back and keep it for at least another six years.

And I believe she will pick Castro as a running mate, who I believe is one of the most dynamic young politicians in the country.

Meanwhilein multi-universe MP97 where Hillary Clinton won in '08, we lament on this web board that we should have known the Republicans would be so catastrophically obstructive, should have elected the new guy.

 

[Tristan Scott]

Yes, thats why I prefer Clinton, I believe she'll fare better with a republican congress, and I also think if she runs against Trump we will get the senate back and keep it for at least another six years.

And I believe she will pick Castro as a running mate, who I believe is one of the most dynamic young politicians in the country.

Meanwhilein multi-universe MP97 where Hillary Clinton won in '08, we lament on this web board that we should have known the Republicans would be so catastrophically obstructive, should have elected the new guy.

In that reality had the new guy been a star bellied Sneech he would have fared no better?

 

[RVonse]

Back in 2008 many of these same supporters, and first time voters came out and helped elect President Obama. Then they abandoned him, few of them showing up in the 2010 elections, allowing the Republicans to reclaim the house. This trend repeated in 2014 and the republicans took the senate as well.

The thing these people don't seem to understand is that a president really can't change much of anything without congress. If all you do is show up every four years to vote for president, your not going to make much of anything happen. If you want the country to go more towards socialism you are going to have to work your butt off at the local level to get a socialist leaning congressman elected in your district. Sanders' supporters seem to think that all they need to do is get him elected president and all the goodies he's promising will magically happen. They evidently weren't paying attention in civics class.

I don't agree with this at all.

1. In the first place, Obama violated his campaign promise of change. He immediately installed the same banksters, Tim Gieghner et all in his cabinet. NO BANKSTERS WENT TO JAIL.

2. In the 2nd place, Obama or Bernie for that matter can and should rein in the plutocracy that is spoiling the US right now. The president does not need congress for this. Evidently YOU were not paying attention in civics class when Theodore Roosevelt busted up trusts and monopolies. HE DID NOT NEED CONGRESS. And Bernie will not need congress to bust up the banks that are too big to fail.

3. Hillary is pro NAFTA, TPP, and anti middle class just like Obama is. And that is precisely why Trump would do better for our failing middle than her. Had I known that Obama was so anti middle class I would not have voted for him and sat out the last election. But if you are in the top 1% then I agree you should vote for Hillary because that is why the Koch brothers are now supporting her.