I agree more with Bernie, but am supporting Hillary.

[RVonse]

When Martin Luther King first met with the city fathers and the bus company of Birmingham, it was his plan and the agreed strategy of the Montgomery Improvement Association, to ask for a more humane segregation of the buses. After being in the same room with these men, it became clear that that would never happen. The segregationists had no intention of moving at all in their position. Changing segregation to something nicer was not their intent. So King and the MIA changed tactics and took bus segregation on head on. It was the right thing to do. It was what the people he represented wanted. 381 days, many beatings, incidents of police harrassment against black and white citizens, crimes of arson, and whole lot of shoe leather later, bus segregation in Montgomery was no more.

Long is the struggle and hard the fight, but if you are willing to settle for shit, all you will ever get is shit.

I am not willing to settle, and believe it or not, you don't really want me too.

+2

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I know Hillary Clinton has such a terrible past I could NEVER VOTE FOR HER. Where do you get the idea that because a politician is "blue" that they are true "blue?" Our country really cannot take too much more of these neoliberal politicians robbing us. The Clintons are crooks...both of them. Get it? Crooks pure and simple. People who accept the status quo in today's America have such low moral standards there possibly is no helping them. I have voted Green in the last four elections and probably may do so again if Clinton gets the nod from the money sucking democrats. It should be a matter of party honor to put some distance between the party and the likes of these pure lying self enriching prigs. It will be a cold day in hell before any Clinton gets an X on the ballot from me. Ask me why...the crime bill and the Clinton's association with CCA. The welfare reform bill. These creeps (Clintons) profiteered on both Katrina and the Haiti earth quake. This woman is a war monger and a corporate whore. Current politicians are just too willing to sacrifice the public good for money. If Hillary gets it, I will vote again for Jill Stein. Laugh if you will but your bitch is no good and that pretty much makes what you do no better than what I may do.

That "bitch" will change the course of SCOTUS to something much less ridiculous than the path the Republicans put it on.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I know Hillary Clinton has such a terrible past I could NEVER VOTE FOR HER. Where do you get the idea that because a politician is "blue" that they are true "blue?" Our country really cannot take too much more of these neoliberal politicians robbing us. The Clintons are crooks...both of them. Get it? Crooks pure and simple. People who accept the status quo in today's America have such low moral standards there possibly is no helping them. I have voted Green in the last four elections and probably may do so again if Clinton gets the nod from the money sucking democrats. It should be a matter of party honor to put some distance between the party and the likes of these pure lying self enriching prigs. It will be a cold day in hell before any Clinton gets an X on the ballot from me. Ask me why...the crime bill and the Clinton's association with CCA. The welfare reform bill. These creeps (Clintons) profiteered on both Katrina and the Haiti earth quake. This woman is a war monger and a corporate whore. Current politicians are just too willing to sacrifice the public good for money. If Hillary gets it, I will vote again for Jill Stein. Laugh if you will but your bitch is no good and that pretty much makes what you do no better than what I may do.

That "bitch" will change the course of SCOTUS to something much less ridiculous than the path the Republicans put it on.

I have been dying to know,

How much is a not so republican supreme court justice worth? What is the price to pay that is simply too high?
Is a full fledged war in Syria a price worth paying?
Another Economic crash that puts the economies of world in catastrophic jeopardy?
A wealth gap within the US grown to such proportions that the breadlines of the 1930s look like Sunday Afternoon in the Park with George in comparison?
How long can you stall a truly right-wing court?
How long can the WH be denied the GOP?
What is the endgame here and what is the price to be paid?

 

[fromderinside]

I have been dying to know,

How much is a not so republican supreme court justice worth? What is the price to pay that is simply too high?
Is a full fledged war in Syria a price worth paying?
Another Economic crash that puts the economies of world in catastrophic jeopardy?
A wealth gap within the US grown to such proportions that the breadlines of the 1930s look like Sunday Afternoon in the Park with George in comparison?
How long can you stall a truly right-wing court?
How long can the WH be denied the GOP?
What is the endgame here and what is the price to be paid?

We all have our magic faeries. We can't have to go to war with Syria because to do so would require driving existing leftists into the rightist camp. I expect a Republican to force such a response (see Bush blackmail democrats October 2002). However the taste was so bitter democrats will ever be in rebellion should a democrat try to so coerce them.

As for a march to a RW court, that ship has sailed. Just as Obamacare is here to stay so are women's, treansgender's, etc, rights as Justice Roberts showed last year. Just as the Pope sees a four billion year evolution so will evangelicals when they come to grips with defending 5000 years beginnings with the laughter reigning down on them.

Why are democrats suggesting stuff so threadbare as what you present. Have you caught a case of RW fear flu?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That "bitch" will change the course of SCOTUS to something much less ridiculous than the path the Republicans put it on.

I have been dying to know,

How much is a not so republican supreme court justice worth? What is the price to pay that is simply too high?

Hey sweety. You know those laws being passed to keep blacks from voting in the South again after the Republican justices said the Voting Rights Act is void now, racism is dead?

You remember that?

That is the price, an actual price, not some hypotheticals. The actual price.

 

[RavenSky]

That "bitch" will change the course of SCOTUS to something much less ridiculous than the path the Republicans put it on.

I have been dying to know,

How much is a not so republican supreme court justice worth? What is the price to pay that is simply too high?
Is a full fledged war in Syria a price worth paying?
Another Economic crash that puts the economies of world in catastrophic jeopardy?
A wealth gap within the US grown to such proportions that the breadlines of the 1930s look like Sunday Afternoon in the Park with George in comparison?
How long can you stall a truly right-wing court?
How long can the WH be denied the GOP?
What is the endgame here and what is the price to be paid?

So it will be better to have any of the Republican candidates in the White House instead?

That is the choice - Hillary vs one of the 3 Republicans

If Bernie wins the Dem nomination - great, wonderful, excellent. But it doesn't look like he will, so our choice in November is Hillary vs Donald, Ted, or John

 

[fromderinside]

I have been dying to know,

How much is a not so republican supreme court justice worth? What is the price to pay that is simply too high?
Is a full fledged war in Syria a price worth paying?
Another Economic crash that puts the economies of world in catastrophic jeopardy?
A wealth gap within the US grown to such proportions that the breadlines of the 1930s look like Sunday Afternoon in the Park with George in comparison?
How long can you stall a truly right-wing court?
How long can the WH be denied the GOP?
What is the endgame here and what is the price to be paid?

So it will be better to have any of the Republican candidates in the White House instead?

That is the choice - Hillary vs one of the 3 Republicans

If Bernie wins the Dem nomination - great, wonderful, excellent. But it doesn't look like he will, so our choice in November is Hillary vs Donald, Ted, or John

Its not a problem unless you don't really want to make a choice. So all you have to do is say Bernie or nobody then go back to college and feel smug. Stupid, but, smug.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

The economic policies of Trump or Cruz will bury us in vast deficits.
Either would assure you horrific supreme court justices.
More attacks on ACA and planned parenthood.
Climate change denial and foot dragging.
Anti-intellectualism of vast proportions.
Religious fanaticism and breaches of the Wall of Separation.
Anti-science ideology.
More massive tax cuts for the rich and accelerating disparities in income.
A take over of the GOP by crazies and final death of Republican moderatism.
A take over of America by the GOP crazies and a resolve to push forward crazy policies that the moderates like Boehner
managed to help sideline. Set the controls for the heart of the sun. The will claim a mandate and will sweep aside all opposition by any means necessary
Continuing brinkmanship and obstructionism, but now lead from the Whitehouse, no vetoes here.
Torture, carpet bombing and other insanity? No telling what the fools would really do. Little lost fools in a dangerous world.

Is this what you want? If so, if Hillary wins, stay home, vote third party, write in Bernie. If you are not now registered to vote in November, you need to take care of that right now.

 

[Rhea]

Long is the struggle and hard the fight, but if you are willing to settle for shit, all you will ever get is shit.

I am not willing to settle, and believe it or not, you don't really want me too.

If my understanding is correct and you are saying that if Bernie does not win the nomination you are proposing to not vote for the democratic nominee:

Respectfully, can you tell me what thing happens when you vote for someone other than Clinton?
Further assuming that another 10 million voters also do so,
What si the end goal? What's the dream goal and what's the expected realistic goal?
I don't think I understand what the #NeverHillary end game is, and I would like to understand it. What are you hoping will happen from your vote?

My goal, in being willing to vote for Clinton, is to firmly repudiate the Republicans. I don't want them to lose, I want them SMASHED and DEMORALIZED. And then I will continue to work on the progressive wing.

For the record, I believe that to move the government t the left where it belongs (in, I believe, better alignment with the majority of americans,) we need to make these third party candidates from local on up. Build with a 20 year plan and a shitpotful of coordinated grassroots local elections.

Putting my money where my mouth is, I have felt this way for decades and stood up to personally run for local office, which I did, and won, 8 years ago then re-ran and won again 4 years ago and personally battled publicly EVERY DAY as a progressive mayor against the majority local Tea Party for realistic leftward movement for our nation.

I believe that voting in a way that does nothing to STOP THE GOP sabotages my own progressive goals.

Just sayin'.

 

[arkirk]

I know Hillary Clinton has such a terrible past I could NEVER VOTE FOR HER. Where do you get the idea that because a politician is "blue" that they are true "blue?" Our country really cannot take too much more of these neoliberal politicians robbing us. The Clintons are crooks...both of them. Get it? Crooks pure and simple. People who accept the status quo in today's America have such low moral standards there possibly is no helping them. I have voted Green in the last four elections and probably may do so again if Clinton gets the nod from the money sucking democrats. It should be a matter of party honor to put some distance between the party and the likes of these pure lying self enriching prigs. It will be a cold day in hell before any Clinton gets an X on the ballot from me. Ask me why...the crime bill and the Clinton's association with CCA. The welfare reform bill. These creeps (Clintons) profiteered on both Katrina and the Haiti earth quake. This woman is a war monger and a corporate whore. Current politicians are just too willing to sacrifice the public good for money. If Hillary gets it, I will vote again for Jill Stein. Laugh if you will but your bitch is no good and that pretty much makes what you do no better than what I may do.

You see lies like this published all the time from conservative groups like Carl Rove's American Crossroads. We saw this kind of crap surface all during Clinton's presidency. The haters will sink as low as it takes to get attention. I think Secretary Clinton will do just fine without your vote.

I thank you for your assessment of the truth. You don't really seem to care about yourself, so knock yourself out. The Clintons are opportunists and their main reason for being where they are is self enrichment. They are kleptocrats. What I was just saying is that you don't trust a professional liar with your future. If she gets elected we will be hearing the same disappointed crap from her supporters as we heard from Obama worshippers. I am in no way connected with the likes of Carl Rove. You seem to be of the opinion that a crook is preferable to someone that insults you. Both the Republican and the Democrat that is apt to be the nominee are turning out to be without any scruples. I am sure Clinton will do just fine if you vote for her...but maybe not YOU.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

You see lies like this published all the time from conservative groups like Carl Rove's American Crossroads. We saw this kind of crap surface all during Clinton's presidency. The haters will sink as low as it takes to get attention. I think Secretary Clinton will do just fine without your vote.

I thank you for your assessment of the truth. You don't really seem to care about yourself, so knock yourself out. The Clintons are opportunists and their main reason for being where they are is self enrichment. They are kleptocrats. What I was just saying is that you don't trust a professional liar with your future. If she gets elected we will be hearing the same disappointed crap from her supporters as we heard from Obama worshippers. I am in no way connected with the likes of Carl Rove. You seem to be of the opinion that a crook is preferable to someone that insults you. Both the Republican and the Democrat that is apt to be the nominee are turning out to be without any scruples. I am sure Clinton will do just fine if you vote for her...but maybe not YOU.

No matter how bad you think Clinton is, Trump and Cruz are worse. Again, you have a choice, half a loaf or a warm juicy cowflop for president. Trump would be a true disaster. Cruz even worse. If people like you stay home, the seanate may well remain GOP.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I have been dying to know,

How much is a not so republican supreme court justice worth? What is the price to pay that is simply too high?

Hey sweety. You know those laws being passed to keep blacks from voting in the South again after the Republican justices said the Voting Rights Act is void now, racism is dead?

You remember that?

That is the price, an actual price, not some hypotheticals. The actual price.

So you don't have an answer.

BTW, telling me that white men do shitty things to non white people doesn't scare me nor does it shut me up. That's not a tactic to me, that is my life.

 

[arkirk]

That "bitch" will change the course of SCOTUS to something much less ridiculous than the path the Republicans put it on.

I have been dying to know,

How much is a not so republican supreme court justice worth? What is the price to pay that is simply too high?
Is a full fledged war in Syria a price worth paying?
Another Economic crash that puts the economies of world in catastrophic jeopardy?
A wealth gap within the US grown to such proportions that the breadlines of the 1930s look like Sunday Afternoon in the Park with George in comparison?
How long can you stall a truly right-wing court?
How long can the WH be denied the GOP?
What is the endgame here and what is the price to be paid?

Clinton is a neoliberal who is used to good old boy politics. I don't think as long as the game is so heavily rigged it matters much who goes to the white house. Bernie did represent an honest attempt to make the changes we need in government. I have not given up on him and the movement that spawned his campaign. Clinton's and the republicans' endgame is unending expansion of the private wealth of herself and her friends on Wall Street. She as much as says so. It is sad but it is a fact you cannot anymore make good government happen with a Hillary Clinton presidency than you can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. We have already had the black disappointment and now we are headed possibly toward an even greater eye opener with Clinton. Clinton's negatives run deep in the progressive wing of the Democratic party and with progressives in general. She is an agent of no change. She gets things done because she thinks "done" is the way things are now, plus perhaps she is a little richer and more powerful. The Democrats should have settled on Bernie and Warren, not a warmonger and personal wealth accumulator.
I have not failed to vote in every election for a very long time. It is people who knuckle under to crooked compromise on important social issues who make virtually everybody's vote futile...even it they receive lots of votes. Rigged is rigged. Trump has one thing right.

 

[arkirk]

I thank you for your assessment of the truth. You don't really seem to care about yourself, so knock yourself out. The Clintons are opportunists and their main reason for being where they are is self enrichment. They are kleptocrats. What I was just saying is that you don't trust a professional liar with your future. If she gets elected we will be hearing the same disappointed crap from her supporters as we heard from Obama worshippers. I am in no way connected with the likes of Carl Rove. You seem to be of the opinion that a crook is preferable to someone that insults you. Both the Republican and the Democrat that is apt to be the nominee are turning out to be without any scruples. I am sure Clinton will do just fine if you vote for her...but maybe not YOU.

No matter how bad you think Clinton is, Trump and Cruz are worse. Again, you have a choice, half a loaf or a warm juicy cowflop for president. Trump would be a true disaster. Cruz even worse. If people like you stay home, the seanate may well remain GOP.

I am not staying home when it comes time to vote. I always vote for the candidate that has the best policies. Hillary Clinton is not half a loaf. She is a self serving political machine. She is easily as big a pile of cow flop as Trump or Cruz...and she actually has a track record which makes it clear how she would behave. I will not vote for a war monger...how about you? Bernie is still there. So is Jill Stein. You want to play roulette with just what part of the thing you want you will get...vote for Hillary or the Donald or perhaps the very bottom of the barrel....Cruz. Neo-liberals are all COW FLOP. That in my estimation includes Obama who seems totally absorbed in making war.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Long is the struggle and hard the fight, but if you are willing to settle for shit, all you will ever get is shit.

I am not willing to settle, and believe it or not, you don't really want me too.

If my understanding is correct and you are saying that if Bernie does not win the nomination you are proposing to not vote for the democratic nominee:

Respectfully, can you tell me what thing happens when you vote for someone other than Clinton?
Further assuming that another 10 million voters also do so,
What si the end goal? What's the dream goal and what's the expected realistic goal?
I don't think I understand what the #NeverHillary end game is, and I would like to understand it. What are you hoping will happen from your vote?

My goal, in being willing to vote for Clinton, is to firmly repudiate the Republicans. I don't want them to lose, I want them SMASHED and DEMORALIZED. And then I will continue to work on the progressive wing.

For the record, I believe that to move the government t the left where it belongs (in, I believe, better alignment with the majority of americans,) we need to make these third party candidates from local on up. Build with a 20 year plan and a shitpotful of coordinated grassroots local elections.

Putting my money where my mouth is, I have felt this way for decades and stood up to personally run for local office, which I did, and won, 8 years ago then re-ran and won again 4 years ago and personally battled publicly EVERY DAY as a progressive mayor against the majority local Tea Party for realistic leftward movement for our nation.

I believe that voting in a way that does nothing to STOP THE GOP sabotages my own progressive goals.

Just sayin'.

I am not telling anyone to vote, or not to vote. I don't want anyone telling me to vote or not to vote.

I do not recall one post I have made where i said vote for Sanders or else.

What a citizen does in that voting booth is that citizen's business and no one elses. It is in a way a secular confessional where only you and your peace can enter in. And you should be able to do so without fault or favor.

If a person believes in the rightness of one candidate and chooses to vote for another, I will say this, that person has a problem. if a person is voting for a candidate out of fear of what still another candidate may do, that person has a problem. If a person wishes to convince others to vote for a candidate, but can only do so by evoking gloom and doom scenarios of what happens if that vote isn't cast, that is a big damn problem.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Hey sweety. You know those laws being passed to keep blacks from voting in the South again after the Republican justices said the Voting Rights Act is void now, racism is dead?

You remember that?

That is the price, an actual price, not some hypotheticals. The actual price.

So you don't have an answer.

You really need to re-read what I wrote. The appointments by GWB and his father and Reagan helped kill the Voters Right Act. That was the cost of voting for Nader. Forget 9/11, Iraq Rebuilding, and Katrina response. States are passing laws to keep minorities from voting now because George W. Bush was able to put two rather conservative justices on the bench. Buildings can now find religion and withhold rights against their employees for the exact same reason.

And if a Republican is elected in '16, you better find a good butcher if you live in the South and have an unwanted pregnancy.

You can try and be cute that fighting the good fight is the honorable path, but this is a terribly long journey and fighting to be honorable may seem to be great, but if you have given up almost everything else on the path to self-righteousness, you've lost everything else... but at least you can pretend to yourself that you didn't sell out your values.

Personally, I don't want women in Texas to endanger their lives because a 5-4 majority Supreme Court ruled that restrictions on abortion that lead to no opportunities of abortion in a state doesn't count as an intentional obstruction. I also think blacks and hispanics have the right to not have their votes discounted before even getting to the polls either. (And please keep in mind, Roe v Wade isn't the final target, its Griswold v Connecticut.)

 

[arkirk]

Long is the struggle and hard the fight, but if you are willing to settle for shit, all you will ever get is shit.

I am not willing to settle, and believe it or not, you don't really want me too.

If my understanding is correct and you are saying that if Bernie does not win the nomination you are proposing to not vote for the democratic nominee:

Respectfully, can you tell me what thing happens when you vote for someone other than Clinton?
Further assuming that another 10 million voters also do so,
What si the end goal? What's the dream goal and what's the expected realistic goal?
I don't think I understand what the #NeverHillary end game is, and I would like to understand it. What are you hoping will happen from your vote?

My goal, in being willing to vote for Clinton, is to firmly repudiate the Republicans. I don't want them to lose, I want them SMASHED and DEMORALIZED. And then I will continue to work on the progressive wing.

For the record, I believe that to move the government t the left where it belongs (in, I believe, better alignment with the majority of americans,) we need to make these third party candidates from local on up. Build with a 20 year plan and a shitpotful of coordinated grassroots local elections.

Putting my money where my mouth is, I have felt this way for decades and stood up to personally run for local office, which I did, and won, 8 years ago then re-ran and won again 4 years ago and personally battled publicly EVERY DAY as a progressive mayor against the majority local Tea Party for realistic leftward movement for our nation.

I believe that voting in a way that does nothing to STOP THE GOP sabotages my own progressive goals.

Just sayin'.

As long as the process is RIGGED, you and Hillary are not going to SMASH ANY REPUBLICANS, no matter how great HER victory. She and Obama love old republicans. Rich people are not smashable by corrupt politicians.
View attachment 6563

 

[Tristan Scott]

You see lies like this published all the time from conservative groups like Carl Rove's American Crossroads. We saw this kind of crap surface all during Clinton's presidency. The haters will sink as low as it takes to get attention. I think Secretary Clinton will do just fine without your vote.

I thank you for your assessment of the truth.

You're welcome.

 

[Tristan Scott]

I have been dying to know,

How much is a not so republican supreme court justice worth? What is the price to pay that is simply too high?
Is a full fledged war in Syria a price worth paying?
Another Economic crash that puts the economies of world in catastrophic jeopardy?
A wealth gap within the US grown to such proportions that the breadlines of the 1930s look like Sunday Afternoon in the Park with George in comparison?
How long can you stall a truly right-wing court?
How long can the WH be denied the GOP?
What is the endgame here and what is the price to be paid?

Clinton is a neoliberal who is used to good old boy politics. I don't think as long as the game is so heavily rigged it matters much who goes to the white house. Bernie did represent an honest attempt to make the changes we need in government. I have not given up on him and the movement that spawned his campaign. Clinton's and the republicans' endgame is unending expansion of the private wealth of herself and her friends on Wall Street. She as much as says so. It is sad but it is a fact you cannot anymore make good government happen with a Hillary Clinton presidency than you can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. We have already had the black disappointment and now we are headed possibly toward an even greater eye opener with Clinton. Clinton's negatives run deep in the progressive wing of the Democratic party and with progressives in general. She is an agent of no change. She gets things done because she thinks "done" is the way things are now, plus perhaps she is a little richer and more powerful. The Democrats should have settled on Bernie and Warren, not a warmonger and personal wealth accumulator.
I have not failed to vote in every election for a very long time. It is people who knuckle under to crooked compromise on important social issues who make virtually everybody's vote futile...even it they receive lots of votes. Rigged is rigged. Trump has one thing right.

Everybody is right, arkirk, just ask them.

 

[Rhea]

If my understanding is correct and you are saying that if Bernie does not win the nomination you are proposing to not vote for the democratic nominee:

Respectfully, can you tell me what thing happens when you vote for someone other than Clinton?
Further assuming that another 10 million voters also do so,
What si the end goal? What's the dream goal and what's the expected realistic goal?
I don't think I understand what the #NeverHillary end game is, and I would like to understand it. What are you hoping will happen from your vote?

My goal, in being willing to vote for Clinton, is to firmly repudiate the Republicans. I don't want them to lose, I want them SMASHED and DEMORALIZED. And then I will continue to work on the progressive wing.

For the record, I believe that to move the government t the left where it belongs (in, I believe, better alignment with the majority of americans,) we need to make these third party candidates from local on up. Build with a 20 year plan and a shitpotful of coordinated grassroots local elections.

Putting my money where my mouth is, I have felt this way for decades and stood up to personally run for local office, which I did, and won, 8 years ago then re-ran and won again 4 years ago and personally battled publicly EVERY DAY as a progressive mayor against the majority local Tea Party for realistic leftward movement for our nation.

I believe that voting in a way that does nothing to STOP THE GOP sabotages my own progressive goals.

Just sayin'.

I am not telling anyone to vote, or not to vote. I don't want anyone telling me to vote or not to vote.

I do not recall one post I have made where i said vote for Sanders or else.

What a citizen does in that voting booth is that citizen's business and no one elses. It is in a way a secular confessional where only you and your peace can enter in. And you should be able to do so without fault or favor.

If a person believes in the rightness of one candidate and chooses to vote for another, I will say this, that person has a problem. if a person is voting for a candidate out of fear of what still another candidate may do, that person has a problem. If a person wishes to convince others to vote for a candidate, but can only do so by evoking gloom and doom scenarios of what happens if that vote isn't cast, that is a big damn problem.

Sorry. I was unclear. I did not think you were telling anyone how to vote. I thought you were saying what _you_ were going to do, but I wasn't sure I heard that, so I wanted to check. And then, if it _was_ what you were sAYING, that if Bernie does not win you planned on voting in a way that does not seek to stop the GOP, and assuming you felt there were others, such as akirk, who were going to make the same decision,

If you confirm that those things were indeed what you were saying,
THEN
what end result are you looking for from your action.

My vote may or may not serve to demoralize the GOP, but that is what I HOPE will happen if lots and lots of people do the same as me and vote Dem.
And I wondered what your answer was to that question: "what do you hope to accomplish with your vote for someone besides the Dem"?
I'm asking with genuine curiosity and respect because I don't know the answer to this and I hoped you would tell me. What is your goal in your vote at the general election?

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I'm trying to understand what you're already convinced of.