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I can easily prove that God does not exist, but...

I heard that Jesus converted to atheism on his deathbed because he was angry with God for forsaking him.

Made for kind of an awkward conversation a few days later.
 
Tom Sawyer said:
I heard that Jesus converted to atheism on his deathbed because he was angry with God for forsaking him.

Made for kind of an awkward conversation a few days later.
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It took him three days to think about but eventually decided there wasn't any loving father in heaven or he wouldn't be going through this shit.
 
Bomb#20 said:
Are you proposing that having a parent excludes someone from qualifying as a god?
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I was pointing out that, since there are several gods existing at the same time, then these would make them lesser gods. The bible acknowledges lesser gods of worship. No probs with that.

Well, when humans create something amazing it's rarely a solo operation. Most creation takes teamwork -- Edison's greatest invention was not the lightbulb but the industrial research laboratory. If you're defining "god" as the creator of organic life, then that would appear to mean that if many beings cooperated in the creation process, they all simultaneously became gods when the first organic cell went live. How big a contribution does each cooperating being have to have made to get to become a god? Just the scientists? The engineers too? The technicians? The janitorial staff?
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The most important thing I would agree with is very much : "By a large collective" gaining new knowledge , inventive influences and new discoveries. The knowledge of the bible also by a large collective from all walks of life. IOW we are all looking from different angles , newer interpretions...what one doesn't see another discovers , which is not unique to any one particular theist denomination.

Qualification for god could be at various levels . Similar to type 2 or 3 god , advanced civilizations becoming gods to less advanced groups. Dawkins accepts this could be plausible (as long as its not biblical).


From my point of view, you are just the same. You worship YHWH for the same reason Phoenicians worshiped Baal, and Greeks worshiped Zeus's various brothers and sisters and children, and Hindus worship their enormous pantheon -- because somebody told you to. You surely know those other people who worshiped all types use the same method as you to decide which is the right object of worship, yet you somehow imagine that method works right for you even though it doesn't work right for them. Regardless of whether the object of your worship is unique or is one of many, you're letting somebody else decide what's right and wrong for you, abdicating your responsibility to make your own independent judgment. Worship is morally equivalent to handing your car keys to a driver you have no grounds for thinking isn't drunk.
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It would work for "everyone" who would follow the teachings ,just to mention the obvious: feed the poor , take care of the sick and elderly , love your neihbour as yourself etc.. It doesn't work IF (in simplistic terms , to post at this moment) such a life seems too boring!


The bible acknowledges Baal and all the other gods. It acknowledges all types of worshippers.

"Worship is morally equivalent to handing your car keys to a driver you have no grounds for thinking isn't drunk."

People put trust in people that end up with their lives messed up. The bible has beneficial teachings which is gospel ,even if you were to take it from the philosophical pov . Baal ritually requires the opposite in regards of its human victims at the alter.

But there you have it, a choice of gods as you highlight.

(Come across few investigations suggesting that Jupitor and Zeus were names for Baal depending on language or something like it. I'll wait for the conclusion by the "collective" ...it all links somewhere!)



But "Intelligent design" isn't an alternative theory; it's just begging the question. An intelligent being capable of creating life is itself a complex functional process -- it has goals, and understanding, and the ability to analyze causal processes and sort them out into those that will accomplish its goals and those that will not. "Intelligent Design" is a proposal that says "The reason reality contains complex functional processes is that reality started out containing a complex functional process, which is what caused complex functional processes to exist." That's circular. It relies on its claimed output already existing as an input. That is not an explanation at all.
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It is an alternative theory , there IS evidence of intelligent entities by an "existing "example that (on a smaller scale) create things in the lab although not life itself. (Dawkins may have thought this too)

The same data i.e. the laws of physics - we all observe really has NO explanation "how" it got there or "why" its here (from non-creation) therefore; should NOT have a theory AT ALL .. unless you are also begging the question!

Sure, I understand that -- compromising on one point doesn't mean you compromise on another. What of it? He allegedly created Adam and for some reason expected Adam to know to obey Him even though he didn't tell Adam obedience was required. Then the Jews worshiped a golden calf; then God in effect said "Fine, if you can't remember to do what you're supposed to by yourselves I'll write down the rules for you". And He blasted some rules onto a couple rocks and had Charlton HestonMoses deliver them. That's a compromise. Your word, not mine. The Jews caused God to compromise on the matter of having a formal written law.
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But I would then agree with your above, seeing compromise in that sense, having to write the laws because of their behaviour, but there IS no compromise when NOT following the rules. The Jews throughout, have had a very hard history , as the bible describes them when they were living by the traditions of men and not e.g. the laws of Moses (* EDIT: or rather, the Laws of God) and would be cursed for sometime with this hardship (till they get right with God again) as the scripture goes.
 
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angelo said:
Many theists love to spread false rumors about deathbed conversions of well know atheists. One I recall not long after Chris Hitchens demise was about his converting to xtianity on his deathbed which was a complete fabrication of course.
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Many theists disagree even with each other but the Gospel remains the same.
;)
 
atrib said:
How do people figure out what the real-deal god is? Does this god come with a HAZMAT sticker on it proclaiming "This is the Real-Deal God: May react violently to normal human behavior: Handle with extreme care". If it doesn't come with a sticker like this, how would one go about distinguishing the real-deal god from a universe potentially filled with intelligent beings which have the technology to create life and possibly even new universes? What makes your god worthy of worship but not other naturally occurring beings with powers that appear godlike to us?
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It is a personal a choice thing (from many) and the mention of real-deal was admitedly a biased but a strongly believed pov .
 
Learner said:
I was pointing out that, since there are several gods existing at the same time, then these would make them lesser gods. The bible acknowledges lesser gods of worship. No probs with that.



[ent]hellip[/ent]
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So the Bible is lying when it says that there is only one god?

If so, how do we tell when the Bible is lying and when it's telling (or at least attempting to tell) the truth? What metric can we use to distinguish between the different kinds of Bible passages?
 
Oh my...I never thought of that.

Ponder on it later

(ahh visitors in and out this house, no time to sit down)
 
The bible says there are many gods that people worship.
Money (mammon) Power/War (mars) Sex/Lust (aphrodite)
 
Lion IRC said:
The bible says there are many gods that people worship.
Money (mammon) Power/War (mars) Sex/Lust (aphrodite)
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I see. So you are saying that Jesus/Jehova is like that too - just a metaphor for something ugly in humans?

If so, it's the first intelligent bit of logical deduction I have seen you make. Which makes me strongly suspect that that's not what you are saying, after all.

Let me guess - you have some special pleading that you fondly imagine gets you out of this logical trap you have built for yourself.
 
bilby said:
Lion IRC said:
The bible says there are many gods that people worship.
Money (mammon) Power/War (mars) Sex/Lust (aphrodite)
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I see. So you are saying that Jesus/Jehova is like that too - just a metaphor for something ugly in humans?
.
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Not necessarily ugly but certainly an apt metaphor for human ignorance.

Money (mammon) Power/War (mars) Sex/Lust (aphrodite) Ignorance (Jehova)

e.g. "I don't understand how humans began therefore goddidit".
 
skepticalbip said:
bilby said:
Lion IRC said:
The bible says there are many gods that people worship.
Money (mammon) Power/War (mars) Sex/Lust (aphrodite)
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I see. So you are saying that Jesus/Jehova is like that too - just a metaphor for something ugly in humans?
.
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Not necessarily ugly but certainly an apt metaphor for human ignorance.

Money (mammon) Power/War (mars) Sex/Lust (aphrodite) Ignorance (Jehova)

e.g. "I don't understand how humans began therefore goddidit".
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Indeed. Although from my perspective, ignorance in a world full of information and knowledge is perhaps the ugliest of all these traits.
 
Lion IRC said:
The bible says there are many gods that people worship.
Money (mammon) Power/War (mars) Sex/Lust (aphrodite)
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I haven't read the Bible (except for Ecclesiastes which was fun) but the Money-God and the Sex-God sound wonderful. Does the Bible name them? And how do I start worshipping them?
 
Grendel said:
Lion IRC said:
The bible says there are many gods that people worship.
Money (mammon) Power/War (mars) Sex/Lust (aphrodite)
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I haven't read the Bible (except for Ecclesiastes which was fun) but the Money-God and the Sex-God sound wonderful. Does the Bible name them? And how do I start worshipping them?
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You can start by sending me your bank details and an email address so as to enable me to send you some porn......er....sorry. The names of the sex gods/goddesses.
 
Its all about these days, should be quite easy to find, if one doesn't accidently stumble across without trying (children do, unfortunately quite easily).
 
Underseer said:
So the Bible is lying when it says that there is only one god?

If so, how do we tell when the Bible is lying and when it's telling (or at least attempting to tell) the truth? What metric can we use to distinguish between the different kinds of Bible passages?
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What Lion says :

Lion IRC said:
The bible says there are many gods that people worship.
Money (mammon) Power/War (mars) Sex/Lust (aphrodite)
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mammon, mars and aphrodite ,good example .
 
The Bible says that Aphrodite is real? Must be towards the back somewhere because I haven't seen that one before.
 
skepticalbip said:
Tom Sawyer said:
The Bible says that Aphrodite is real? Must be towards the back somewhere because I haven't seen that one before.
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That is in the adult version of the Bible. Those Bibles are stored the back room of the book store, the little dark room behind the curtain.
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But I thought we were commanded to pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
 
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