I have now met a real life creationist.

[bilby]

Murder is (still) a crime deserving punishment.
Nothing outdated there.

And owning a slave? Or beating someone so severely that he dies after three days?

Not crimes at all, according to the un-edited 'truth'.

You know, the one that you just tried to edit, in order to rescue your un-rescuable position?

 

[bilby]

I guess ancient slave owners probably thought of their slaves in much the the same way as an abortion-on-demand activist thinks of an unborn baby.

That's quite possible.

But we both agree that it's reprehensible to think of a person that way. Unlike your book of un-edited 'truth', which clearly considers it perfectly acceptable.

Or are you saying that you don't think a slave qualifies as a person, and that it's therefore fine to own slaves?

Tu Quoque is a logical fallacy.

 

[Lion IRC]

Yeah right.
The bible "clearly" supports the slave trade.

"Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper's possession." Exodus 21:16

 

[Keith&Co.]

I guess ancient slave owners probably thought of their slaves in much the the same way as an abortion-on-demand activist thinks of an unborn baby.

That's quite possible.

Oh, that's hardly likely. To the OT authors, life didn't begin until first breath. So while a preborn had all the building blocks of being a people, it was no more alive than a rock, a fish, a tree, a mud pie, a butterfly, the bones of last week's sacrificial lamb, or a lump of coal. Slaves where alive, as were all things with nostrils. Completely different category altogether.

 

[Ford]

And yet we are supposed to be able to learn all about how to live from a four hundred year old edition, of a 1,700 year old book, that purports to tell of events six thousand years ago?

A book that is supposedly a repository of an unchanging and eternal truth and moral guidance, and which includes instructions on how much you are allowed to beat your slaves?

Not to mention that book was thrown together by a committee that tossed entire "gospels" because it didn't fit the narrative, and whenever a new version of the "faith" came around they edited it to suit their own purposes, thus leading to a bevy of "official versions" of that unchanging truth which don't match each other let alone reality.

 

[bilby]

Yeah right.
The bible "clearly" supports the slave trade.

"Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper's possession." Exodus 21:16

So it's OK to own slaves, as long as they were born to slavery.

That's some fine upstanding morals right there.

But don't worry, someone will probably be along in a minute who will pursue your distraction about abortion, and you will be able to quietly squirm out of addressing the fact that the Bible very clearly doesn't hold slavery to be immoral, as long as it's done by the rules - the rules that don't need editing, because they are 'the truth'.

 

[Lion IRC]

Middle-class, Western, secular atheist hypocrites lecturing me about biblical slavery while they reap the rewards of wage slavery. Where was your smartphone made?

Atheists can't own slaves because...why?

Because natural selection requires a "fair go" ?
Because the human species is more 'special' than the others you enslave?

Because the love of money is the root of all evil?
Because slavery is theft and that's a sin?

 

[Ford]

Middle-class, Western, secular atheist hypocrites lecturing me about biblical slavery while they reap the rewards of wage slavery. Where was your smartphone made?

Where was your smartphone made?

 

[Learner]

Analogy to the bible : If I had beans on toast this morning then had a boiled egg the following morning and wrote it in my journal this would be the truth regardless or what breakfast I change about throughout the week. There is "no mistakes " for the need to "update" in the journal - it would all still be true.

 

[Lion IRC]

Where was your smartphone made?

I don't own a smartphone.

 

[Ford]

Analogy to the bible : If I had beans on toast this morning then had a boiled egg the following morning and wrote it in my journal this would be the truth regardless or what breakfast I change about throughout the week. There is "no error" for the need to "update" in the journal - it would all still be true.

And 300 years from now if someone said you had an omelet this morning and an English breakfast the following morning who would be able to check your "truth?"

Your bible is a collection of stories passed down over centuries, not an accurate accounting of events.

- - - Updated - - -

Where was your smartphone made?

I don't own a smartphone.

Okay, then who made the computer you're using to respond?

 

[Lion IRC]

Wage slaves

 

[Ford]

Wage slaves

Odd. I thought it was Jesus. I mean, if we don't need all that pesky science and the Bible is the source of all truth, we should just be able to pray to Jesus and he'll give us computers.

 

[Learner]

And 300 years from now if someone said you had an omelet this morning and an English breakfast the following morning who would be able to check your "truth?"

I suppose If I wanted people to believe what I had for breakfast I'd have guests join me for breakfast as witnesses and video it on youtube for the future references.

 

[Lion IRC]

Wage slaves

Odd. I thought it was Jesus. I mean, if we don't need all that pesky science and the Bible is the source of all truth, we should just be able to pray to Jesus and he'll give us computers.

Jesus didn't build Noahs Ark either.

 

[Ford]

Odd. I thought it was Jesus. I mean, if we don't need all that pesky science and the Bible is the source of all truth, we should just be able to pray to Jesus and he'll give us computers.

Jesus didn't build Noahs Ark either.

Neither did Noah.

 

[blastula]

And 300 years from now if someone said you had an omelet this morning and an English breakfast the following morning who would be able to check your "truth?"

I suppose If I wanted people to believe what I had for breakfast I'd have guests join me for breakfast as witnesses and video it on youtube for the future references.

How much more would you do to prove you rose from the dead?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Analogy to the bible : If I had beans on toast this morning then had a boiled egg the following morning and wrote it in my journal this would be the truth regardless or what breakfast I change about throughout the week. There is "no mistakes " for the need to "update" in the journal - it would all still be true.

So, it's still true that you have to let your Hebrew slave go free after a certain time, but you can keep his wife and kids?
But if he wants to stay with his family, it's okay to pound an awl through his ear and keep him forever?
This, God's law for keeping slaves, is still 'true' and needs no update?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Middle-class, Western, secular atheist hypocrites lecturing me about biblical slavery while they reap the rewards of wage slavery. Where was your smartphone made?

Where was your smartphone made?

Where's the 'hypocrisy,' though?
The atheists who've read the bible are the ones who think slavery is a bad thing. Lion's the one who's been promoting the book, which endorses and codifies slavery, as a good thing, and NOW wants to whine about a different sort of slavery.

Have any atheists promoted their smartphones as a sign that science or a secular society or capitalism is perfect and needs no update?
If not, that's kind of a strawman as well as a tu quoque, isn't it?

 

[Keith&Co.]

How much more would you do to prove you rose from the dead?

OBVIOUSLY, I'd trust to word-of-mouth, spread by people I already predicted would pretend not to know me, but LATER would tell everyone all about my miracles and experiences, and many, many years later, maybe even generations later, trust someone else would write it all down. Somewhere else, far away from the events.
For posterity.