I, Racist

[Tom Sawyer]

Kahn was genetically engineered. He could appear to be any colour or racial type.

But that would imply that the people who were genetically engineering a master race of super soldiers to take over the planet had some kind of racial biases in favour of whites.

I just don't see that happening.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Not a bias, really.
But if you're going to deliver a tyrant to a population, you want the leader to look like the people they see on TV every day, so the mob is predisposed to follow them.

 

[KeepTalking]

Kahn was genetically engineered. He could appear to be any colour or racial type.

But that would imply that the people who were genetically engineering a master race of super soldiers to take over the planet had some kind of racial biases in favour of whites.

I just don't see that happening.

If I remember the backstory correctly, which was admittedly retconned after Cumberbatch was selected to portray Kahn, he altered his own appearance to avoid being recognized.

 

[Playball40]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-metta/i-racist_b_7770652.html

Even when we make shit up, we want it to be white.

And racism is the fact that we all accept that it is white. Benedict Cumberbatch playing Khan in Star Trek. Khan, who is from India. Is there anyone Whiter than Benedict fucking Cumberbatch? What? They needed a "less racial" cast because they already had the Black Uhura character?
That is racism. Once you let yourself see it, it's there all the time.

But here is the irony, here's the thing that all the angry Black people know, and no calmly debating White people want to admit: The entire discussion of race in America centers around the protection of White feelings. [bold: author]

Ask any Black person and they'll tell you the same thing. The reality of thousands of innocent people raped, shot, imprisoned, and systematically disenfranchised are less important than the suggestion that a single White person might be complicit in a racist system.

Discuss.

Khan is from India? I never knew that! cool.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Except, of course, that that is the exact opposite of the truth.

You didn’t benefit from racism. Nobody benefits. Some people are harmed more than others. Your life is worse than it otherwise would have been if nobody had ever been racist.
It still staggers me how easily people will toss this unexamined belief out - -that racism benefits certain groups in society. I do not benefit from people being racist.

It is economically and morally impossible for there to be a benefit.

Nope. I benefited from racism. I have taken jobs and been paid more for my work because I was white. I was aware of it and took full advantage. It bothered me a little, so we might attach a negative cost to offset my benefit, but when the accounting was done, I came out ahead.

The accounting of opportunity costs of a racism free society is and interesting concept, but claiming I was a victim of society because there was an aggregate mis-justice, just doesn't ring true.

Your faith in this doesn't make it true. In almost every proper study we find that race is merely a proxy for socioeconomic status. In the majority of studies we find that they do not consider whether race is a proxy for socioeconomic status.

- - - Updated - - -

If the standard of truth is how closely your experience matches mine, you will find little truth in this world.

But you don't seem to have any experience. You say you were paid more but what's the evidence of this beyond your belief you were taking advantage of being white?

 

[Bronzeage]

Nope. I benefited from racism. I have taken jobs and been paid more for my work because I was white. I was aware of it and took full advantage. It bothered me a little, so we might attach a negative cost to offset my benefit, but when the accounting was done, I came out ahead.

The accounting of opportunity costs of a racism free society is and interesting concept, but claiming I was a victim of society because there was an aggregate mis-justice, just doesn't ring true.

Your faith in this doesn't make it true. In almost every proper study we find that race is merely a proxy for socioeconomic status. In the majority of studies we find that they do not consider whether race is a proxy for socioeconomic status.

- - - Updated - - -

If the standard of truth is how closely your experience matches mine, you will find little truth in this world.

But you don't seem to have any experience. You say you were paid more but what's the evidence of this beyond your belief you were taking advantage of being white?

If you are going to discount personal experience and personal testimony, there is no discussion. I could just as easily dismiss all you say as your interpretation of what other people told you.

Of course, if you want to argue that I am an amazing person who has remarkable talents and the ability to rise above others due to my inherent abilities, I might find merit in your judgment.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

A few days ago, I had conversation with someone who made the general statement that they were not responsible for what people did in the past. I gave him this scenario:

Suppose I stole your mother's car and there was nothing she could do about it. I give the car to one of my children. One day, you see them drive by in your mother's car. Is it still a stolen car?

How many generations does it take for a stolen car to become an heirloom?

An unaddressed problem in this analogy is when the son of the lady you stole the car from then demands a car from me, even though I don't live in the same neighborhood as any of you, had my own car stolen, and just managed to get a new car, and he demands my car because you and I are the same height.

 

[Nexus]

if you want to argue that I am an amazing person who has remarkable talents and the ability to rise above others due to my inherent abilities, I might find merit in your judgment.

Businesses don't strive to pay employees more money than they have to. Your assertion that employers gave you bonus income because you're white is ludicrous. In the past you have mentioned being a manager at auto shops and owning businesses. Did you ever give white employees extra pay since they were white? If so why did you do that and not simply keep it for yourself as extra profit?

 

[Bronzeage]

if you want to argue that I am an amazing person who has remarkable talents and the ability to rise above others due to my inherent abilities, I might find merit in your judgment.

Businesses don't strive to pay employees more money than they have to. Your assertion that employers gave you bonus income because you're white is ludicrous. In the past you have mentioned being a manager at auto shops and owning businesses. Did you ever give white employees extra pay since they were white? If so why did you do that and not simply keep it for yourself as extra profit?

Is there no validity to perceived value? Is it ludicrous that someone could think a white man's production is worth more? Just because I am an enlightened person, not burdened by socially ingrained racism, it doesn't mean no one else is.

I was there and I understood how the system functioned. This does not mean I perpetuated it, when I achieved some small measure of power.

I think I have some idea how a black person feels when someone tells them they did not suffer because of discrimination.

 

[Nexus]

Is there no validity to perceived value? Is it ludicrous that someone could think a white man's production is worth more? Just because I am an enlightened person, not burdened by socially ingrained racism, it doesn't mean no one else is.

No there is no validity to perceived value when it come to business in aggregate. Of course there will be individuals that make poor decisions in business, many go bankrupt after all. But if there were this black worker discount like you say then the best business plan would be make hiring them priority number one. You could poach the best black workers from the racist companies by offering them more than the racists that don't value them correctly.

Your labor costs would be lower than companies that foolishly pay the white man premium and you could out compete them on price or use the surplus profit for more marketing.

 

[Jokodo]

Is there no validity to perceived value? Is it ludicrous that someone could think a white man's production is worth more? Just because I am an enlightened person, not burdened by socially ingrained racism, it doesn't mean no one else is.

No there is no validity to perceived value when it come to business in aggregate. Of course there will be individuals that make poor decisions in business, many go bankrupt after all. But if there were this black worker discount like you say then the best business plan would be make hiring them priority number one. You could poach the best black workers from the racist companies by offering them more than the racists that don't value them correctly.

Your labor costs would be lower than companies that foolishly pay the white man premium and you could out compete them on price or use the surplus profit for more marketing.

To all free-market-faithers: If your religion tells you there can't be any discrimination and there is discrimination, it's your religion that's wrong, not reality.

 

[Metaphor]

No there is no validity to perceived value when it come to business in aggregate. Of course there will be individuals that make poor decisions in business, many go bankrupt after all. But if there were this black worker discount like you say then the best business plan would be make hiring them priority number one. You could poach the best black workers from the racist companies by offering them more than the racists that don't value them correctly.

Your labor costs would be lower than companies that foolishly pay the white man premium and you could out compete them on price or use the surplus profit for more marketing.

To all free-market-faithers: If your religion tells you there can't be any discrimination and there is discrimination, it's your religion that's wrong, not reality.

There can be discrimination, and there was, and there is. But it makes everyone worse off in the aggregate.

 

[laughing dog]

The GDP in the US would have been higher but for the racism of the past. Therefore, GDP is lower than it otherwise would have been because of racism. Do you think it benefits you to live in a country with a lower GDP than a higher GDP? I guarantee you, it does not.

Your guarantee is worthless because it makes an unwarranted assumptions about the distribution of the resulting GDP. It is entirely within the realm of reason that there are individuals whose incomes are higher now because of racism than if there had never been. Those individuals might very well be better off.

 

[Bronzeage]

Is there no validity to perceived value? Is it ludicrous that someone could think a white man's production is worth more? Just because I am an enlightened person, not burdened by socially ingrained racism, it doesn't mean no one else is.

No there is no validity to perceived value when it come to business in aggregate. Of course there will be individuals that make poor decisions in business, many go bankrupt after all. But if there were this black worker discount like you say then the best business plan would be make hiring them priority number one. You could poach the best black workers from the racist companies by offering them more than the racists that don't value them correctly.

Your labor costs would be lower than companies that foolishly pay the white man premium and you could out compete them on price or use the surplus profit for more marketing.

You are spending a lot of time trying to demonstrate that racial discrimination is bad for business, therefore it can't exist.

No one is arguing that it is good for business, but if it didn't exist, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[laughing dog]

No one is arguing that it is good for business, but if it didn't exist, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Well, if it hadn't been good for business, then why did businesses discriminate?

 

[Jokodo]

No one is arguing that it is good for business, but if it didn't exist, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Well, if it hadn't been good for business, then why did businesses discriminate?

Because they're run by people, not by objective algorithms?

 

[Bronzeage]

No one is arguing that it is good for business, but if it didn't exist, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Well, if it hadn't been good for business, then why did businesses discriminate?

I'll wait while you collect data to demonstrate that businessmen are smart.

 

[laughing dog]

Well, if it hadn't been good for business, then why did businesses discriminate?

Because they're run by people, not by objective algorithms?

There is no such thing as an objective algorithm.

If a business is located in a community of racists, it may make business sense to cater to those racists, even if it is morally wrong.

 

[laughing dog]

Well, if it hadn't been good for business, then why did businesses discriminate?

I'll wait while you collect data to demonstrate that businessmen are smart.

One does not need to be smart to be a good business man, so I fail to see your point. Unless you are somehow implying that business people are incapable of recognizing what actions and choices improve their well being, in which case, your point is ridiculous.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Nice little read circulating on the Facebooks:

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-po...erica-avoids-taking-responsibility-its-racism

The two most effective beliefs that prevent us (whites) from seeing racism as a system are:

that racists are bad people and
that racism is conscious dislike;

if we are well-intended and do not consciously dislike people of color, we cannot be racist. This is why it is so common for white people to cite their friends and family members as evidence of their lack of racism. However, when you understand racism as a system of structured relations into which we are all socialized, you understand that intentions are irrelevant. And when you understand how socialization works, you understand that much of racial bias is unconscious. Negative messages about people of color circulate all around us. While having friends of color is better than not having them, it doesn’t change the overall system or prevent racism from surfacing in our relationships. The societal default is white superiority and we are fed a steady diet of it 24/7. To not actively seek to interrupt racism is to internalize and accept it.