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If Biden Falls, Who Will Rise?

You are correct that a president does not have the luxury of working on a single issue and must be responsible (at least in part ) for all of it.

Must? No, what a candidate must do is to say they will make X (whatever it is) all better no matter what the challenge. Also helps to point out that X (whatever it is) sucks.
Have we learned nothing from Trump?

What may matter is not who is president, but if the Democrats can take the Senate. Otherwise we will have obstructionism, and sabotage which the GOP adopted whole heartedly with Obama. Any president that has to face a party dedicated to rank obstructionism may accomplish little. The lesson does not lie with Trump but with Mitch McConnell. Even if he loses, if the GOP retains the Senate, we will just see another McConnell type obstructionist rise to take his place and continue the same obstructionism.
 
No, not considerably, just a little bit more. In fact when he was accused of having no experience his people said his presidential election was his experience.
Senator Obama did not have a lot of political experience. He was a college professor on Constitutional Law, however. In addition, he had shown a solid interest in public works. Additionally, there was a massive DC movement to support him. The biggest trouble with outsiders is they lack the reins to get anything done in DC or even worse, let other people have the reins (see Stephen Miller). Personally I think Obama could have used a little more Senate experience, but too much Senate experience means you have a voting record that will get taken terribly out of context. But Obama was definitely very intelligent, had the constitutional expertise, a drive for public service, and a DC machine that was quite happy to have him.
You think I don't know that? Still he was accused of lack of experience and his people said his presidential campaign was his experience.
Yang is a rich. If Yang wasn't rich, he wouldn't be running on a very weak platform.

That's your opinion.
 
You are correct that a president does not have the luxury of working on a single issue and must be responsible (at least in part ) for all of it.

Must? No, what a candidate must do is to say they will make X (whatever it is) all better no matter what the challenge. Also helps to point out that X (whatever it is) sucks.
Have we learned nothing from Trump?

What may matter is not who is president, but if the Democrats can take the Senate. Otherwise we will have obstructionism, and sabotage which the GOP adopted whole heartedly with Obama. Any president that has to face a party dedicated to rank obstructionism may accomplish little. The lesson does not lie with Trump but with Mitch McConnell. Even if he loses, if the GOP retains the Senate, we will just see another McConnell type obstructionist rise to take his place and continue the same obstructionism.

If the Dems take the Seante and Trump wins re-election, then we will have obstructionism.
 
Yang isn't completely without relevant experience. He worked Venture for America, which helped find jobs and build up the economy in downtrodden areas of the country. It wasnt an elected post but it was very similar to what policitians do or should be doing.

And had was noted above, Obama came in with very little experience and he did fine. I think you overestimate how important experience is for this job. All they have to do is get people to agree to work with them. A polarizing figure like Biden, Bernie, Warren, etc will have trouble with that. Yang may not. Conservatives may more easily support Yang, because UBI applies to everyone including those who would criticize it - there is less of a welfare state spin and more of a dividend spin.
 
Just wanted to add that while Yang is my first choice, I don't think he will win the nomination. Would be happy to be wrong about it, but I see his path as closely resembling Bernie's in 2015/2016. He will get his ideas mainstreamed but won't win the office.

So that will leave me supporting Warren or Bernie. I think one of those two will win, since once one drops out it's likely their support will go to the other, and that pushes them well above Biden.
 
Yang isn't completely without relevant experience. He worked Venture for America, which helped find jobs and build up the economy in downtrodden areas of the country. It wasnt an elected post but it was very similar to what policitians do or should be doing.

And had was noted above, Obama came in with very little experience and he did fine. I think you overestimate how important experience is for this job.
In other words, you really no basis for thinking an inexperienced politician will get anything done other than you agree with his goals.

BTW, Obama had boats load more political experience than Mr. Yang. He served in the Illinois legislature and he had as much if not more political organizing experience as Mr. Yang.
 
In other words, you really no basis for thinking an inexperienced politician will get anything done other than you agree with his goals.

The burden is yours to show tbat experience in politics will make for a better result. It often does the opposite. It means the politician is more likely to be corrupted.

Mitch McConnell has a ton of experience as a politician. Will you vote for him over Yang?
 
What may matter is not who is president, but if the Democrats can take the Senate. Otherwise we will have obstructionism, and sabotage which the GOP adopted whole heartedly with Obama. Any president that has to face a party dedicated to rank obstructionism may accomplish little. The lesson does not lie with Trump but with Mitch McConnell. Even if he loses, if the GOP retains the Senate, we will just see another McConnell type obstructionist rise to take his place and continue the same obstructionism.

If the Dems take the Seante and Trump wins re-election, then we will have obstructionism.


At this point, I do not think Trump will be re-elected. It is just a matter of how bad he will lose. The question is, can the Democrats win the senate? I suspect if the Democrats can sweep the elections all around, they will use all possible nuclear options, no more filibusters, and will start wreaking vengeance on the GOP big time.
A recent analysis shows Trump underwater in most states. If he won in the states he still is above 50%, he would only have 99 electoral votes. Give him all the close states and he is up to only 145 electoral votes. I don't see him turning this around.
 
Just wanted to add that while Yang is my first choice, I don't think he will win the nomination. Would be happy to be wrong about it, but I see his path as closely resembling Bernie's in 2015/2016. He will get his ideas mainstreamed but won't win the office.

So that will leave me supporting Warren or Bernie. I think one of those two will win, since once one drops out it's likely their support will go to the other, and that pushes them well above Biden.

Yang is Ross Perot for millenials.
 
In other words, you really no basis for thinking an inexperienced politician will get anything done other than you agree with his goals.

The burden is yours to show tbat experience in politics will make for a better result. It often does the opposite. It means the politician is more likely to be corrupted.

Mitch McConnell has a ton of experience as a politician. Will you vote for him over Yang?

Trump. That’s proof that experience matters.

Also your ignorance is showing. Again.

There is no Yang v McConnell contest.

Unless ld lives in KY, he cannot vote for McConnell.
 
In other words, you really no basis for thinking an inexperienced politician will get anything done other than you agree with his goals.

The burden is yours to show tbat experience in politics will make for a better result.
You are the one with a positive claim. I asked for your basis, and all you've given none.
It often does the opposite. It means the politician is more likely to be corrupted.
Another unsubstantiated claim of fact.
Mitch McConnell has a ton of experience as a politician. Will you vote for him over Yang?
Mr. McConnell is not vying for the same nomination as Mr. Yang, so your question is truly pointless and provides yet another example of how little you understand about the USA.
 
Just wanted to add that while Yang is my first choice, I don't think he will win the nomination. Would be happy to be wrong about it, but I see his path as closely resembling Bernie's in 2015/2016. He will get his ideas mainstreamed but won't win the office.

So that will leave me supporting Warren or Bernie. I think one of those two will win, since once one drops out it's likely their support will go to the other, and that pushes them well above Biden.

Yang is Ross Perot for millenials.

I thought that was Bernie?
 
In other words, you really no basis for thinking an inexperienced politician will get anything done other than you agree with his goals.

The burden is yours to show tbat experience in politics will make for a better result. It often does the opposite. It means the politician is more likely to be corrupted.

Mitch McConnell has a ton of experience as a politician. Will you vote for him over Yang?

Trump. That’s proof that experience matters.

Also your ignorance is showing. Again.

There is no Yang v McConnell contest.

Unless ld lives in KY, he cannot vote for McConnell.

Mitch McConnell has a ton of experience as a politician. Will you vote for him over Yang?
Mr. McConnell is not vying for the same nomination as Mr. Yang, so your question is truly pointless and provides yet another example of how little you understand about the USA.

Hypothetical at Merriam Webster

Definition of hypothetical

: involving or being based on a suggested idea or theory : being or involving a hypothesis : conjectural
 
In other words, you really no basis for thinking an inexperienced politician will get anything done other than you agree with his goals.

The burden is yours to show tbat experience in politics will make for a better result. It often does the opposite. It means the politician is more likely to be corrupted.

Mitch McConnell has a ton of experience as a politician. Will you vote for him over Yang?

Trump. That’s proof that experience matters.

By your logic, Trumps 4 years in office means he will be a significantly better president than his first term or than any of the other candidates who have no experience being President.

Trump is proof of nothing other than that Trump is a mentally and emotionally stunted sociopath, which has nothing to do with his lack of experience, and no amount of experience would have made him a better president and would likely have made him worse b/c he'd have more knowledge on how to manipulate things for his own advantage.

There is no Yang v McConnell contest.

Unless ld lives in KY, he cannot vote for McConnell.

Whether ld actually could vote for McConnell over Yang is of zero logical relevance to the discussion. Whether he would do so, if given that choice, speaks to how important experience in office actually is compared to more long term stable traits that are relevant to making sound ethical decisions in the context of having dozens of highly educated and knowledgeable advisors to gather input from.
A person with no experience in a particular role but with general intellect, a good moral compass, and humility to seek informed council is likely to be a far better president than someone with a lifetime in public office but not as strong on those other qualities.

In fact, given that the opportunity for power tends to attract people who are low in ethics and humility, experience in public office often reflects a lifelong seeking of power that is likely a negative predictor of the qualities of a good president. Trump would merely be an exception to that general rule, and an easily explainable one. He was handed economic power and has spent his life immorally abusing that, and while he had all the ego maniacal desire for the ultimate power, he was too lazy to do anything but let his wealth produce more wealth. He fell into the Presidency b/c the GOP, Fox News, Breibart, etc. had spent decades creating the ideal ideological atmosphere, so that all Trump had to do was channel his worst most racist, misogynist self and he became a cult leader.
 
The burden is yours to show tbat experience in politics will make for a better result. It often does the opposite. It means the politician is more likely to be corrupted.

That's almost exactly what Bonespurs said. He said he would be incorruptible because he was already rich. Didn't work out that way, did it?
 
Trump. That’s proof that experience matters.

By your logic, Trumps 4 years in office means he will be a significantly better president than his first term or than any of the other candidates who have no experience being President.

Trump is proof of nothing other than that Trump is a mentally and emotionally stunted sociopath, which has nothing to do with his lack of experience, and no amount of experience would have made him a better president and would likely have made him worse b/c he'd have more knowledge on how to manipulate things for his own advantage.

Trump, in 4 years or 40 years, will still have zero experience performing the duties of POTUS. ZERO.

There is no Yang v McConnell contest.

Unless ld lives in KY, he cannot vote for McConnell.

Whether ld actually could vote for McConnell over Yang is of zero logical relevance to the discussion. Whether he would do so, if given that choice, speaks to how important experience in office actually is compared to more long term stable traits that are relevant to making sound ethical decisions in the context of having dozens of highly educated and knowledgeable advisors to gather input from.

McConnell, as despicable as I find him to be, is extremely effective. Mr. Yang is highly unlikely to be as effective a legislator as McConnell, unless McConnell were to start to show serious signs of aging--which, truth be told, could happen at any time.

A person might be the best person in the entire world--and utterly not suited to the job. Real life example of an exemplary human being whose presidency is considered a failure: Jimmy Carter. Personally, I liked and admired Carter as POTUS and much more so since then but it's a pretty small club of people who think that he was good as POTUS. His biggest source of failure, imo, is that he was actually not an insider and had no real interest in being an insider. That is a death knell in DC. Reagan, who replaced him, liked to tout himself as an outsider but he certainly was not. In fact, he traded quite expertly on establishing and forming relationships throughout DC. I despise Reagan and did at the time, but he was more effective, even if what he was effective at was not nearly so admirable as Carter.

A person with no experience in a particular role but with general intellect, a good moral compass, and humility to seek informed council is likely to be a far better president than someone with a lifetime in public office but not as strong on those other qualities.

I really do wish that were true. See my Carter/Reagan comparison above. Note: Personally, I much, much, much prefer an individual with a good intellect, a good moral compass, and humility (plus a super large side of desire to be of public service) to someone who is skilled as a politician. Obama did a decent job as POTUS, despite the challenges of having a Republican majority determined that he would accomplish nothing. I think he is probably a very good man, with a well developed intellect, a strong moral compass, a desire to serve the public and his nation and plenty of humility with a lot of courage on top of that. Maybe Yang would be like Obama. Personally, I'd rather see him in another position and then evaluate Yang. I don't think this is his time. With this Congress, we need a tough and skilled leader and politician. Admirable Yang may be, but he's neither of those at this point.

In fact, given that the opportunity for power tends to attract people who are low in ethics and humility, experience in public office often reflects a lifelong seeking of power that is likely a negative predictor of the qualities of a good president. Trump would merely be an exception to that general rule, and an easily explainable one. He was handed economic power and has spent his life immorally abusing that, and while he had all the ego maniacal desire for the ultimate power, he was too lazy to do anything but let his wealth produce more wealth. He fell into the Presidency b/c the GOP, Fox News, Breibart, etc. had spent decades creating the ideal ideological atmosphere, so that all Trump had to do was channel his worst most racist, misogynist self and he became a cult leader.

Yes, Trump is a useful tool/useful fool. To me, he is a prime example of the rule that bad people are drawn to power and politics. Obama would be an exception to that rule, not Trump.
 
Yang isn't completely without relevant experience. He worked Venture for America, which helped find jobs and build up the economy in downtrodden areas of the country. It wasnt an elected post but it was very similar to what policitians do or should be doing.

And had was noted above, Obama came in with very little experience and he did fine. I think you overestimate how important experience is for this job. All they have to do is get people to agree to work with them. A polarizing figure like Biden, Bernie, Warren, etc will have trouble with that.
Polarizing? Joe Biden? No one can be taken seriously after making a statement like that.
Yang may not. Conservatives may more easily support Yang, because UBI applies to everyone including those who would criticize it - there is less of a welfare state spin and more of a dividend spin.
Yeah... I'm sure they'll buy the spin of a guy who wants to give money to "lazy" colored people.
 
The burden is yours to show tbat experience in politics will make for a better result. It often does the opposite. It means the politician is more likely to be corrupted.

That's almost exactly what Bonespurs said. He said he would be incorruptible because he was already rich. Didn't work out that way, did it?

I said that... guilty. I was naive. To my own defense, I have long since retracted and currently acknowledge his total and complete corruption of power to personal greed.
 
Trump. That’s proof that experience matters.

Also your ignorance is showing. Again.

There is no Yang v McConnell contest.

Unless ld lives in KY, he cannot vote for McConnell.

Mitch McConnell has a ton of experience as a politician. Will you vote for him over Yang?
Mr. McConnell is not vying for the same nomination as Mr. Yang, so your question is truly pointless and provides yet another example of how little you understand about the USA.

Hypothetical at Merriam Webster

Definition of hypothetical

: involving or being based on a suggested idea or theory : being or involving a hypothesis : conjectural

I’ll play: given the premise that you and JP seem to advocate,

1. explain Trump.
2. Why support Sanders who has been in office for so long and is therefore so corrupt and beholden to others?
 
My take on experience? I care about where a politician stands on the issues, and experience merely tells me if they actually mean what they say. Usually they either say one thing and do another, or are consistently against what I support.
 
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