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If god is true, why are christians so terrible at debating?

But christians doesnt mean that: they (mostly) simply mean that we make our own decisions. That we constains some sort of intelligence that can calculate what to do. That we dont simply play up a prewritten script.

Sure. But that then stops their answer from being relevant to the question 'If God wants me to do such-and-such, why doesn't he make his desire clear to me?'

I have the free will to choose to rob a bank, but the law makes it very clear that this is not permitted, and what the consequences of doing it will be.

I have the free will to choose not to worship God, but God has made the most half arsed attempt imaginable to advise me of his opinion on that choice. The dude's meant to be all knowing and all powerful; He knows what would convince me of the rules, and he has the ability to do whatever that is - and if after all that, I choose to misbehave, then that's on me. He also knows that anyone with half a brain is not going to be impressed with the 500 year old heavily edited writings based on two thousand year old oral traditions from people who thought it was vital to know how hard they were allowed to beat their slaves, but had no thought of writing down rules on washing your hands after tending the sick, wiping your backside, or before eating.

He seems also to have been inexcusably lax in letting people in the Americas, the Far East and Australasia know the rules - why only tell a bunch of guys in the Middle East, and not let everyone in the world in on the rules?

Informed decisions need information, and that information is not provided to the vast majority of the world's population. So for us, free will includes freedom from punishment for breaking rules that were never made clear.
I dont see the problem with that. I mean, it isnt like christians ever said that their god was nice, smart, knew everything or something like that...

Well their own descriptions of how he will treat people in the afterlife make Joe Stalin look positively benign.

It's a good thing he's fictional.
 
Thats what Stalin thought at first but judgement-day will be a surprise (i.e. for the wicked).

Threats and the promise of justice. Even if we don't get justice, never fear, the Christian God is here! ... or there. Or somewhere no one can detect with any senses. But dammit, you better believe (i.e. not be "wicked") or you'll be hanging with Uncle Joe in the Devil's BBQ pit for like fucking-ever.

Me and Stalin. Equally wicked.

Doesn't seem just. But it does make me feel nice and witchy. So I got that goin' for me.
 
Thats what Stalin thought at first but judgement-day will be a surprise (i.e. for the wicked).

What kind of surprise? Is Jesus going to jump out of a cake wearing a G-string or something?

Why would a cake be wearing a G-string?

I'm guessing it wasn't baked in Colorado.
 
Threats and the promise of justice. Even if we don't get justice, never fear, the Christian God is here! ... or there. Or somewhere no one can detect with any senses. But dammit, you better believe (i.e. not be "wicked") or you'll be hanging with Uncle Joe in the Devil's BBQ pit for like fucking-ever.



Me and Stalin. Equally wicked.

Doesn't seem just. But it does make me feel nice and witchy. So I got that goin' for me.

Oh dear ,poor sod, why put yourself in with the likes of Stalin? I don't think you go around killing people just to prop up your position or harm people for the fum of it - do you? Sinning (as we all do, and also who Jesus came for ) and being evil (wicked) are not quite the same in terms of where your heart and mind lays , in a manner of speaking.
 
Stalin aint the half of it. It's also your grandma -- who fixed you oatmeal -- if she questioned the divinity of Jeebus. Roasting in hell forever with Comrade Joe. After making your oatmeal.
 
Oh dear ,poor sod, why put yourself in with the likes of Stalin? I don't think you go around killing people just to prop up your position or harm people for the fum of it - do you? Sinning (as we all do, and also who Jesus came for ) and being evil (wicked) are not quite the same in terms of where your heart and mind lays , in a manner of speaking.
But they are the same when it comes to the Christain afterlife.

If i kill a million people,
OR
i tell my father to fuck off, just one time,
I go to the same place, for the same punishment.

For eternity.

So, really, you, and whoever wrote your fantasy sourcebook, lump us all with Stalin....
 
Oh dear ,poor sod, why put yourself in with the likes of Stalin? I don't think you go around killing people just to prop up your position or harm people for the fum of it - do you? Sinning (as we all do, and also who Jesus came for ) and being evil (wicked) are not quite the same in terms of where your heart and mind lays , in a manner of speaking.
But they are the same when it comes to the Christain afterlife.

If i kill a million people,
OR
i tell my father to fuck off, just one time,
I go to the same place, for the same punishment.

For eternity.

So, really, you, and whoever wrote your fantasy sourcebook, lump us all with Stalin....


I don't think you could kill anywhere near a million people before you get caught. Don't tell your Dad to Fuck off or he might not come to visit when your in the joint.
 
Oh dear ,poor sod, why put yourself in with the likes of Stalin? I don't think you go around killing people just to prop up your position or harm people for the fum of it - do you? Sinning (as we all do, and also who Jesus came for ) and being evil (wicked) are not quite the same in terms of where your heart and mind lays , in a manner of speaking.
But they are the same when it comes to the Christain afterlife.

If i kill a million people,
OR
i tell my father to fuck off, just one time,
I go to the same place, for the same punishment.

For eternity.

So, really, you, and whoever wrote your fantasy sourcebook, lump us all with Stalin....


I don't think you could kill anywhere near a million people before you get caught.

Don't take that shit from him, Keith. Man up and prove him wrong.
 
I don't think you could kill anywhere near a million people before you get caught.

Don't take that shit from him, Keith. Man up and prove him wrong.

Yes! DO IT! Then, prove yourself wrong by repenting on your deathbed and going straight to heaven.
That'll show 'em!
I no longer have access to the materials, but we did design a plan that needed no more than five conspirators. TWELVE Million dead in Moscow, alone.

Lucky for everyone, while we were interested in defeating the mechanics that prevent it, none of us were actually inclined to carry it out.
































.....and, you know, it would be wrong.
 
Yes! DO IT! Then, prove yourself wrong by repenting on your deathbed and going straight to heaven.
That'll show 'em!
I no longer have access to the materials, but we did design a plan that needed no more than five conspirators. TWELVE Million dead in Moscow, alone.

Lucky for everyone, while we were interested in defeating the mechanics that prevent it, none of us were actually inclined to carry it out.
































.....and, you know, it would be wrong.

Muffley: General Turgidson! When you instituted the human reliability tests, you assured me there was no possibility of such a thing ever occurring!
Turgidson: Well, I, uh, don't think it's quite fair to condemn a whole program because of a single slip-up, sir.
Muffley: General Turgidson, I find this very difficult to understand. I was under the impression that I was the only one in authority to order the use of nuclear weapons.
Turgidson: That's right sir. You are the only person authorized to do so. And although I hate to judge before all the facts are in, it's beginning to look like General Ripper exceeded his authority.
 
That whole "free will" nonsense never stopped the god from deciding that some consequences are instant and some are delayed or avoided.

Like, a loving god would make the "consequences" for choosing to rape be that same as the "consequences" for refusing food. Right?
The consequences for making the free will choice to murder could be the same consequences as making the free will choice to breathe water.

For some reason, the god wanted it to be immediately deadly to be so vile and awful as to try to breathe under water. So he created consequences that resulted in immediate judgment.
 
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