• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

If Gods are Real, Where are They?

Really? The first crusade utterly wrecked the economy of the Byzantine empire, the buffer against Islam. They never really recovered. The crusader states were inherently unstable. But what's interesting is the Muslim reaction to the crusader states, ie none. Saladin conquered the crusader states while on the way to somewhere else. The crusader states didn't even act to unite the Muslims against them. They hardly gave a shit. Saladin acted on his own.

The Ottoman Caliphate was cosmopolitan. They had no interest in converting anybody to Islam. Until quite late they even forbade conversion.

The Islamic world only started getting upset about the Crusades in the modern anti-colonial rhetoric. Then they backdated the grand narrative of the Islamic conquest and the importance of Saladin.

What protected the west from the rule under the Caliphate was Vienna in 1520'ies. It was about military technology. Not religion

I think you're repeating a modern myth that was never true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAn_I64mloU

Regards
DL

Wow... what a loonie.

Perhaps you should google people before you post their videos?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Warner_(writer)

Sure, he's not as crazy as Spencer. It's a sliding scale. This guy is way out there.

He fails to understand the economic differences. Medieval Europe was a poor backwater. Money was equated with agrarian output. Due to Byzantine and Sassanid idiocy they pretty much gave away all the most fertile land to a bunch of Beduin camel herders. Within a century the Muslims sit on the biggest engine of war = the most money.

No, shit the crusaders attacked the Muslims less than the Muslims attacked them. How would they have afforded it? The Levant is not a particularly fertile region.

The Muslim conquest was about money and power. The crusades was primarily about religion (and getting rid of a surplus of poor knights on suicide missions). If you start wars to get money and power you will get more money and power, so you can start new wars. If you start wars for religious reasons you don't get money and power and you can't start more wars.

Bill Warner is a clown. He comes across as a Christian apologist. Christianity and Islam were born out of different situations. Christianity is a religion for slaves designed to make life under an oppressive emperor more bearable. Islam is a religion designed to knit together disparate Beduin tribes. This has had an influence on their history and sacred texts.

But in practice, they are very similar. What sets them apart is the contexts they found themselves in, rather than any deeper philosophical or theological difference. Historically Christianity has been about just as much politics as Islam.
 
Really? The first crusade utterly wrecked the economy of the Byzantine empire, the buffer against Islam. They never really recovered. The crusader states were inherently unstable. But what's interesting is the Muslim reaction to the crusader states, ie none. Saladin conquered the crusader states while on the way to somewhere else. The crusader states didn't even act to unite the Muslims against them. They hardly gave a shit. Saladin acted on his own.

The Ottoman Caliphate was cosmopolitan. They had no interest in converting anybody to Islam. Until quite late they even forbade conversion.

The Islamic world only started getting upset about the Crusades in the modern anti-colonial rhetoric. Then they backdated the grand narrative of the Islamic conquest and the importance of Saladin.

What protected the west from the rule under the Caliphate was Vienna in 1520'ies. It was about military technology. Not religion

I think you're repeating a modern myth that was never true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAn_I64mloU

Regards
DL

Wow... what a loonie.

Perhaps you should google people before you post their videos?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Warner_(writer)

Sure, he's not as crazy as Spencer. It's a sliding scale. This guy is way out there.

He fails to understand the economic differences. Medieval Europe was a poor backwater. Money was equated with agrarian output. Due to Byzantine and Sassanid idiocy they pretty much gave away all the most fertile land to a bunch of Beduin camel herders. Within a century the Muslims sit on the biggest engine of war = the most money.

No, shit the crusaders attacked the Muslims less than the Muslims attacked them. How would they have afforded it? The Levant is not a particularly fertile region.

The Muslim conquest was about money and power. The crusades was primarily about religion (and getting rid of a surplus of poor knights on suicide missions). If you start wars to get money and power you will get more money and power, so you can start new wars. If you start wars for religious reasons you don't get money and power and you can't start more wars.

Bill Warner is a clown. He comes across as a Christian apologist. Christianity and Islam were born out of different situations. Christianity is a religion for slaves designed to make life under an oppressive emperor more bearable. Islam is a religion designed to knit together disparate Beduin tribes. This has had an influence on their history and sacred texts.

But in practice, they are very similar. What sets them apart is the contexts they found themselves in, rather than any deeper philosophical or theological difference. Historically Christianity has been about just as much politics as Islam.

You killed the messenger yet left his work untouched.

Was any of his data wrong?

Show the error.

Regards
DL
 
Wow... what a loonie.

Perhaps you should google people before you post their videos?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Warner_(writer)

Sure, he's not as crazy as Spencer. It's a sliding scale. This guy is way out there.

He fails to understand the economic differences. Medieval Europe was a poor backwater. Money was equated with agrarian output. Due to Byzantine and Sassanid idiocy they pretty much gave away all the most fertile land to a bunch of Beduin camel herders. Within a century the Muslims sit on the biggest engine of war = the most money.

No, shit the crusaders attacked the Muslims less than the Muslims attacked them. How would they have afforded it? The Levant is not a particularly fertile region.

The Muslim conquest was about money and power. The crusades was primarily about religion (and getting rid of a surplus of poor knights on suicide missions). If you start wars to get money and power you will get more money and power, so you can start new wars. If you start wars for religious reasons you don't get money and power and you can't start more wars.

Bill Warner is a clown. He comes across as a Christian apologist. Christianity and Islam were born out of different situations. Christianity is a religion for slaves designed to make life under an oppressive emperor more bearable. Islam is a religion designed to knit together disparate Beduin tribes. This has had an influence on their history and sacred texts.

But in practice, they are very similar. What sets them apart is the contexts they found themselves in, rather than any deeper philosophical or theological difference. Historically Christianity has been about just as much politics as Islam.

You killed the messenger yet left his work untouched.

Was any of his data wrong?

Show the error.

Regards
DL

The data doesn't explain what he thinks it explains. He does the common right-wing fallacy of equating Islam with Islamism. Modern Islamism (Al Qaeda, ISIS etc) is a product born out of the ideas of Sayyid Qutb. A guy who wrote in the 1950'ies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb

His data doesn't prove that Muslims were any more aggressive than Christians.

All his data proves that wealth allows a ruler to extend their power further than they would otherwise. Which explains why USA has been embroiled in so many wars. Or why Great Britain ruled the greatest empire on Earth. Or why the Mongols were so effective.

But it's a platitude. It's so blatantly obvious to anyone that nobody should have to point it out. And you too should know better than to buy into this guys nonsense.
 
[ And you too should know better than to buy into this guys nonsense.

So again, kill the messenger anf leave the work untouched, basically.

Whatever Islam is, or any name you want to give to delusional people who follow Allah, they hold immoral tenets and are not a moral religion.

Regards
DL
 
[ And you too should know better than to buy into this guys nonsense.

So again, kill the messenger anf leave the work untouched, basically.

Lying messengers should be shot. Wrong information is worse than no information. This guy is nothing but a well of misinformation.

Whatever Islam is, or any name you want to give to delusional people who follow Allah, they hold immoral tenets and are not a moral religion.

Regards
DL

Sure. But it's also a product of it's time. Do you want to compare the immorality of the Quran to the immorality of the Bible? It's the same shit. But it's religion. Quote mining religious texts is a waste of time. No religious person follows their religion to the letter. Not even fundamentalists. They all find ways to interpret it in whatever way works best for them.

https://www.evilbible.com/

There used to be a www.evilquran.com

am I just an idiot? I can't find it. Does anybody have the current link?
 
Lying messengers should be shot. Wrong information is worse than no information. This guy is nothing but a well of misinformation.

Whatever Islam is, or any name you want to give to delusional people who follow Allah, they hold immoral tenets and are not a moral religion.

Regards
DL

Sure. But it's also a product of it's time. Do you want to compare the immorality of the Quran to the immorality of the Bible? It's the same shit. But it's religion. Quote mining religious texts is a waste of time. No religious person follows their religion to the letter. Not even fundamentalists. They all find ways to interpret it in whatever way works best for them.

https://www.evilbible.com/

There used to be a www.evilquran.com

am I just an idiot? I can't find it. Does anybody have the current link?

What works best for the mainstream religions seems to be to honor a genocidal god and their homophobic and misogynous religions.

I need know nothing else to recognize their evil ways.

Regards
DL
 
MY religion is better than YOUR relgion.

The root cause of a lot of conflict throughout history.

It is all about an inflated sense of self importance.
 
Lying messengers should be shot. Wrong information is worse than no information. This guy is nothing but a well of misinformation.

Whatever Islam is, or any name you want to give to delusional people who follow Allah, they hold immoral tenets and are not a moral religion.

Regards
DL

Sure. But it's also a product of it's time. Do you want to compare the immorality of the Quran to the immorality of the Bible? It's the same shit. But it's religion. Quote mining religious texts is a waste of time. No religious person follows their religion to the letter. Not even fundamentalists. They all find ways to interpret it in whatever way works best for them.

https://www.evilbible.com/

There used to be a www.evilquran.com

am I just an idiot? I can't find it. Does anybody have the current link?

What works best for the mainstream religions seems to be to honor a genocidal god and their homophobic and misogynous religions.

I need know nothing else to recognize their evil ways.

Regards
DL

Are you talking about Islam or Christianity now? They're pretty much identical on just the things you mentioned
 
MY religion is better than YOUR relgion.

The root cause of a lot of conflict throughout history.

It is all about an inflated sense of self importance.

If you are not better at anything, you would have that opinion, yes.

When I say better, I can argue for it ata the moral level.

When the mainstream crowed say it, you might have noted how they run from arguing their moral tenets.

We do not use inquisitions. The not better do.

Pick some of their moral tenets that I see as immoral and I will prove the excellence of Gnostic Christianity over the genocidal god loving side.

Otherwise, stop wasting my time.

Regards
DL
 
What works best for the mainstream religions seems to be to honor a genocidal god and their homophobic and misogynous religions.

I need know nothing else to recognize their evil ways.

Regards
DL

Are you talking about Islam or Christianity now? They're pretty much identical on just the things you mentioned

Yes. They are the mainstream.

I would include the Jews, but today they are small and mostly atheist, IMO, and they never used inquisitions or Jihads to grow their religion.

Regards
DL
 
The Hebrews were as warlike and agessive as the oters in the rgion. It wqs a tough neighborhood and they last out to stronger powers.

There is an OT dicate to eradicate a particular group.

A Christian characteristic is Jewish apologetics. One I knew credted ancient Jews with inveting everything.

The Israei Zionisrsts today exenlified bt Netantahu belive they have a biblical god given right to what was Isreal 2000 yeras ago and the right to exckude others.

Palestinians are being subjected to a slow motion ethnic cleansing, Isreali conservatives want Jeruslame purged. Land is siezed, Israelis build and colonize.

American Christians tend to look the other way and give them a pass.
The Palestinian Jews declared a stte and excluded non Jews, Arabs inside at the declaration were allowed to stay.

It is difficult to get Israeli citizenship if you are not Jewish.

If you want an example of a racist state, that wold be Israel. Being Jewish is usually based on the maternal blood line, racial purity. Conservative Jews are mysoginistic. There are anti gay neighborhoods in Israel. It is not all Israelis, but some.

From my experience Jews are like most people with a broad spectrum.
 
What works best for the mainstream religions seems to be to honor a genocidal god and their homophobic and misogynous religions.

I need know nothing else to recognize their evil ways.

Regards
DL

Are you talking about Islam or Christianity now? They're pretty much identical on just the things you mentioned

Yes. They are the mainstream.

I would include the Jews, but today they are small and mostly atheist, IMO, and they never used inquisitions or Jihads to grow their religion.

Regards
DL

Inquisitions were never used to grow their religion. The inquisition was introduced to stop bogey men. Their enemies were fantasies. They operated in a world with a, near 100% adherence to Christianity.

Jihad just means doing a good deed for the Islamic community. The most common form of Jihad was helping out at your local mosque, or helping out building new one. Not even all Islamic wars were Jihad. Jihads were pretty specific activities.
 
The Hebrews were as warlike and agessive as the oters in the rgion. It wqs a tough neighborhood and they last out to stronger powers.

There is an OT dicate to eradicate a particular group.

A Christian characteristic is Jewish apologetics. One I knew credted ancient Jews with inveting everything.

The Israei Zionisrsts today exenlified bt Netantahu belive they have a biblical god given right to what was Isreal 2000 yeras ago and the right to exckude others.

Palestinians are being subjected to a slow motion ethnic cleansing, Isreali conservatives want Jeruslame purged. Land is siezed, Israelis build and colonize.

American Christians tend to look the other way and give them a pass.
The Palestinian Jews declared a stte and excluded non Jews, Arabs inside at the declaration were allowed to stay.

It is difficult to get Israeli citizenship if you are not Jewish.

If you want an example of a racist state, that wold be Israel. Being Jewish is usually based on the maternal blood line, racial purity. Conservative Jews are mysoginistic. There are anti gay neighborhoods in Israel. It is not all Israelis, but some.

From my experience Jews are like most people with a broad spectrum.

FYI, This is all antisemitic propaganda. It's almost entirely lies.

Don't buy into bullshit from any extremist
 
The Hebrews were as warlike and agessive as the oters in the rgion. It wqs a tough neighborhood and they last out to stronger powers.

There is an OT dicate to eradicate a particular group.

A Christian characteristic is Jewish apologetics. One I knew credted ancient Jews with inveting everything.

The Israei Zionisrsts today exenlified bt Netantahu belive they have a biblical god given right to what was Isreal 2000 yeras ago and the right to exckude others.

Palestinians are being subjected to a slow motion ethnic cleansing, Isreali conservatives want Jeruslame purged. Land is siezed, Israelis build and colonize.

American Christians tend to look the other way and give them a pass.
The Palestinian Jews declared a stte and excluded non Jews, Arabs inside at the declaration were allowed to stay.

It is difficult to get Israeli citizenship if you are not Jewish.

If you want an example of a racist state, that wold be Israel. Being Jewish is usually based on the maternal blood line, racial purity. Conservative Jews are mysoginistic. There are anti gay neighborhoods in Israel. It is not all Israelis, but some.

From my experience Jews are like most people with a broad spectrum.

FYI, This is all antisemitic propaganda. It's almost entirely lies.

Don't buy into bullshit from any extremist

Calling out Isreal for its actions is nit anti semetiic. I liste d to an Israeli woman on BBC who wrote a book n the conservative Jewish propaganda.

It was obvious for a long time with Netanyahu who finaly sad on caera Israel has a god given right to tale land from Palestinians. The ultra conservative Israelis mirror American Christian conservatives.

An Israeli professor wrote a book on how the Jewish narrative of an unbroken line back to Moses is false. It was a best seller in Israel.

There is opposition in Israel, we only hear the conservative side /propaganda.

As to ancient Hebrews, I had a thread on the 613 rules, one was an order to eradicate a rival group.

Jews are no different than anyone else.

We can go back to the Israeli invasion of Egypt in concert with Europeans. At that time there was no cause for Israel.

There are positives and negatives for Israel like any nation. Netanyahu was an Israeli Trump, now gone.

The founding of Israel as a safe haven for Jews post war is certainly understandable, but they still have to be accountable for actions.
 
Where are some gods? Maybe they died. Yes, they said they were eternal. But saying so doesn't mean it is so. Hitler said the Wehrmacht was invincible. We know how that turned out. Maybe Leslie Fish was right when she had Ishmael say that gods need worship for food. Maybe when some gods stopped being worshiped they starved to death.

Eldarion Lathria
 
The Hebrews were as warlike and agessive as the oters in the rgion. It wqs a tough neighborhood and they last out to stronger powers.

There is an OT dicate to eradicate a particular group.

A Christian characteristic is Jewish apologetics. One I knew credted ancient Jews with inveting everything.

The Israei Zionisrsts today exenlified bt Netantahu belive they have a biblical god given right to what was Isreal 2000 yeras ago and the right to exckude others.

Palestinians are being subjected to a slow motion ethnic cleansing, Isreali conservatives want Jeruslame purged. Land is siezed, Israelis build and colonize.

American Christians tend to look the other way and give them a pass.
The Palestinian Jews declared a stte and excluded non Jews, Arabs inside at the declaration were allowed to stay.

It is difficult to get Israeli citizenship if you are not Jewish.

If you want an example of a racist state, that wold be Israel. Being Jewish is usually based on the maternal blood line, racial purity. Conservative Jews are mysoginistic. There are anti gay neighborhoods in Israel. It is not all Israelis, but some.

From my experience Jews are like most people with a broad spectrum.

FYI, This is all antisemitic propaganda. It's almost entirely lies.

Don't buy into bullshit from any extremist

Calling out Isreal for its actions is nit anti semetiic. I liste d to an Israeli woman on BBC who wrote a book n the conservative Jewish propaganda.

It was obvious for a long time with Netanyahu who finaly sad on caera Israel has a god given right to tale land from Palestinians. The ultra conservative Israelis mirror American Christian conservatives.

An Israeli professor wrote a book on how the Jewish narrative of an unbroken line back to Moses is false. It was a best seller in Israel.

There is opposition in Israel, we only hear the conservative side /propaganda.

As to ancient Hebrews, I had a thread on the 613 rules, one was an order to eradicate a rival group.

Jews are no different than anyone else.

We can go back to the Israeli invasion of Egypt in concert with Europeans. At that time there was no cause for Israel.

There are positives and negatives for Israel like any nation. Netanyahu was an Israeli Trump, now gone.

The founding of Israel as a safe haven for Jews post war is certainly understandable, but they still have to be accountable for actions.

Israel had no cause to invade Egypt?! No cause other than massing their forces on Israel's border to invade, signaling that they would invade, and cutting off the Straits of Tiran. Are you of the opinion that Egypt had no intention of invading Israel? It was just a misunderstanding on their part?
 
The Hebrews were as warlike and agessive as the oters in the rgion. It wqs a tough neighborhood and they last out to stronger powers.

There is an OT dicate to eradicate a particular group.

A Christian characteristic is Jewish apologetics. One I knew credted ancient Jews with inveting everything.

The Israei Zionisrsts today exenlified bt Netantahu belive they have a biblical god given right to what was Isreal 2000 yeras ago and the right to exckude others.

Palestinians are being subjected to a slow motion ethnic cleansing, Isreali conservatives want Jeruslame purged. Land is siezed, Israelis build and colonize.

American Christians tend to look the other way and give them a pass.
The Palestinian Jews declared a stte and excluded non Jews, Arabs inside at the declaration were allowed to stay.

It is difficult to get Israeli citizenship if you are not Jewish.

If you want an example of a racist state, that wold be Israel. Being Jewish is usually based on the maternal blood line, racial purity. Conservative Jews are mysoginistic. There are anti gay neighborhoods in Israel. It is not all Israelis, but some.

From my experience Jews are like most people with a broad spectrum.

FYI, This is all antisemitic propaganda. It's almost entirely lies.

Don't buy into bullshit from any extremist

Calling out Isreal for its actions is nit anti semetiic. I liste d to an Israeli woman on BBC who wrote a book n the conservative Jewish propaganda.

It was obvious for a long time with Netanyahu who finaly sad on caera Israel has a god given right to tale land from Palestinians. The ultra conservative Israelis mirror American Christian conservatives.

An Israeli professor wrote a book on how the Jewish narrative of an unbroken line back to Moses is false. It was a best seller in Israel.

There is opposition in Israel, we only hear the conservative side /propaganda.

As to ancient Hebrews, I had a thread on the 613 rules, one was an order to eradicate a rival group.

Jews are no different than anyone else.

We can go back to the Israeli invasion of Egypt in concert with Europeans. At that time there was no cause for Israel.

There are positives and negatives for Israel like any nation. Netanyahu was an Israeli Trump, now gone.

The founding of Israel as a safe haven for Jews post war is certainly understandable, but they still have to be accountable for actions.

Your description of events is absurdly simplistic. Netanyahu as a conservative has to juggle the whims and wishes of the religious whackjobs in his country. All Trump needed to do was to not be a Democrat. As long as he did that he'd have the support of the Evangelicals, no matter how many pussies he grabbed. Netanyahu didn't have that luxury. I too think Netanyahu is a terrible person. I am a liberal. But, come on. You're full on antisemtic propaganda on this guy. The western left has a strong antisemetic streak in it. Don't be those guys. You can criticize Israel for all their faults, (there's plenty of them) without resorting to the crazy accusations for fantasy crimes.

The Israeli constitution is a fully modern liberal democratic constitution that respects and protects basic human rights. While it's easy for Jews to get citizenship in Israel. It's not that hard for Palestinians with family connections to Israel to get citizenship either. It's like becoming a citizen in any western country.
 
Calling out Isreal for its actions is nit anti semetiic. I liste d to an Israeli woman on BBC who wrote a book n the conservative Jewish propaganda.

It was obvious for a long time with Netanyahu who finaly sad on caera Israel has a god given right to tale land from Palestinians. The ultra conservative Israelis mirror American Christian conservatives.

An Israeli professor wrote a book on how the Jewish narrative of an unbroken line back to Moses is false. It was a best seller in Israel.

There is opposition in Israel, we only hear the conservative side /propaganda.

As to ancient Hebrews, I had a thread on the 613 rules, one was an order to eradicate a rival group.

Jews are no different than anyone else.

We can go back to the Israeli invasion of Egypt in concert with Europeans. At that time there was no cause for Israel.

There are positives and negatives for Israel like any nation. Netanyahu was an Israeli Trump, now gone.

The founding of Israel as a safe haven for Jews post war is certainly understandable, but they still have to be accountable for actions.

Your description of events is absurdly simplistic. Netanyahu as a conservative has to juggle the whims and wishes of the religious whackjobs in his country. All Trump needed to do was to not be a Democrat. As long as he did that he'd have the support of the Evangelicals, no matter how many pussies he grabbed. Netanyahu didn't have that luxury. I too think Netanyahu is a terrible person. I am a liberal. But, come on. You're full on antisemtic propaganda on this guy. The western left has a strong antisemetic streak in it. Don't be those guys. You can criticize Israel for all their faults, (there's plenty of them) without resorting to the crazy accusations for fantasy crimes.

The Israeli constitution is a fully modern liberal democratic constitution that respects and protects basic human rights. While it's easy for Jews to get citizenship in Israel. It's not that hard for Palestinians with family connections to Israel to get citizenship either. It's like becoming a citizen in any western country.

This is a political discussion. There has been many threads on the political forum. on Israel. The UN has published reports on the displacement of Palestinians from their homes. When asked by a reporter on cemera about Israel seizing a Palestinian farm for settlement Netanyahu relied what's the big deal, it is just a small pieces of land.

I have looked at Is

An Israeli foeman wrote a book about the storytelling of Netanyahu and his false narratives, she was labeled a trator by the right. Decades back an Israeli professor wrote a book on how Israel was founded on a myth, it was a bestseller i Israel.

I knew a Jewish man who emmigrated to Israel, he went threw an exhaustive process looking into his Jewish credentials and references.

Isreal generally has westerns liberties and values, and like the west there is collusion and power trading between religion and government. Netanyahu came to power making concessions to the Jewish conservatives.

Israel has a demographic problem It was founded by and for Jews. In order to maintain that they can not have one state solution. They loose a political majority. Israel wants to stay Jewish. Israel can not open o larhe scale non Jewish immigration like the west, Israel woud no long be Jewsih.
This is mainstream political analysis, no conspiracy theory.

In the 90s the Israeli govt acknowledged Arabs in Israeli we ted analogous to our Jim Crow, discriminations in housing, financial, and goby services.

Israel led the west on gay rights and marriage. Positives and negatives.

On the plus side Israel created a modern state in the middle of a sea of shit and chaos, no small thing.

I knew a Jewish woman in the 70s who married a Catholic man. I met her parents, they were ok with it. Some in her extended family shunned her, treating her lke a non person. Jews have their own set of bias and prejudice.

Jews are the same as anyone. Israel has its positives and negatives as do we in the USA.

Note that under the Brits there Jews labeled terrorists, like Menachim Begin. There were terror bombings by Jews.

I look at both the Palestinians side and the Israeli side. Both have valid grievances and questionable actions.

If I met a Jew I neither look down or give any special recognition, I look at who the person is. Gay, straight, black, white, or Jew all the same people to me.


I suggest taking a balanced view taking into account all sides and issues, it is not one sided as the Jewish propaganda plays it to America conservatives.

Those are my views that developed over time. If you consider that prejudiced or right wing rhetoric that is your prerogative.
r
I would say you views are simplistic and apologetic.

We can take it up on politics.
 
Calling out Isreal for its actions is nit anti semetiic. I liste d to an Israeli woman on BBC who wrote a book n the conservative Jewish propaganda.

It was obvious for a long time with Netanyahu who finaly sad on caera Israel has a god given right to tale land from Palestinians. The ultra conservative Israelis mirror American Christian conservatives.

An Israeli professor wrote a book on how the Jewish narrative of an unbroken line back to Moses is false. It was a best seller in Israel.

There is opposition in Israel, we only hear the conservative side /propaganda.

As to ancient Hebrews, I had a thread on the 613 rules, one was an order to eradicate a rival group.

Jews are no different than anyone else.

We can go back to the Israeli invasion of Egypt in concert with Europeans. At that time there was no cause for Israel.

There are positives and negatives for Israel like any nation. Netanyahu was an Israeli Trump, now gone.

The founding of Israel as a safe haven for Jews post war is certainly understandable, but they still have to be accountable for actions.

Your description of events is absurdly simplistic. Netanyahu as a conservative has to juggle the whims and wishes of the religious whackjobs in his country. All Trump needed to do was to not be a Democrat. As long as he did that he'd have the support of the Evangelicals, no matter how many pussies he grabbed. Netanyahu didn't have that luxury. I too think Netanyahu is a terrible person. I am a liberal. But, come on. You're full on antisemtic propaganda on this guy. The western left has a strong antisemetic streak in it. Don't be those guys. You can criticize Israel for all their faults, (there's plenty of them) without resorting to the crazy accusations for fantasy crimes.

The Israeli constitution is a fully modern liberal democratic constitution that respects and protects basic human rights. While it's easy for Jews to get citizenship in Israel. It's not that hard for Palestinians with family connections to Israel to get citizenship either. It's like becoming a citizen in any western country.

This is a political discussion. There has been many threads on the political forum. on Israel. The UN has published reports on the displacement of Palestinians from their homes. When asked by a reporter on cemera about Israel seizing a Palestinian farm for settlement Netanyahu relied what's the big deal, it is just a small pieces of land.

I have looked at Is

An Israeli foeman wrote a book about the storytelling of Netanyahu and his false narratives, she was labeled a trator by the right. Decades back an Israeli professor wrote a book on how Israel was founded on a myth, it was a bestseller i Israel.

I knew a Jewish man who emmigrated to Israel, he went threw an exhaustive process looking into his Jewish credentials and references.

Isreal generally has westerns liberties and values, and like the west there is collusion and power trading between religion and government. Netanyahu came to power making concessions to the Jewish conservatives.

Israel has a demographic problem It was founded by and for Jews. In order to maintain that they can not have one state solution. They loose a political majority. Israel wants to stay Jewish. Israel can not open o larhe scale non Jewish immigration like the west, Israel woud no long be Jewsih.
This is mainstream political analysis, no conspiracy theory.

In the 90s the Israeli govt acknowledged Arabs in Israeli we ted analogous to our Jim Crow, discriminations in housing, financial, and goby services.

Israel led the west on gay rights and marriage. Positives and negatives.

On the plus side Israel created a modern state in the middle of a sea of shit and chaos, no small thing.

I knew a Jewish woman in the 70s who married a Catholic man. I met her parents, they were ok with it. Some in her extended family shunned her, treating her lke a non person. Jews have their own set of bias and prejudice.

Jews are the same as anyone. Israel has its positives and negatives as do we in the USA.

Note that under the Brits there Jews labeled terrorists, like Menachim Begin. There were terror bombings by Jews.

I look at both the Palestinians side and the Israeli side. Both have valid grievances and questionable actions.

If I met a Jew I neither look down or give any special recognition, I look at who the person is. Gay, straight, black, white, or Jew all the same people to me.


I suggest taking a balanced view taking into account all sides and issues, it is not one sided as the Jewish propaganda plays it to America conservatives.

Those are my views that developed over time. If you consider that prejudiced or right wing rhetoric that is your prerogative.
r
I would say you views are simplistic and apologetic.

We can take it up on politics.

Yes, we definitely need another thread in Politics about Israel!
 
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This is a political discussion. There has been many threads on the political forum. on Israel. The UN has published reports on the displacement of Palestinians from their homes. When asked by a reporter on cemera about Israel seizing a Palestinian farm for settlement Netanyahu relied what's the big deal, it is just a small pieces of land.

I have looked at Is

An Israeli foeman wrote a book about the storytelling of Netanyahu and his false narratives, she was labeled a trator by the right. Decades back an Israeli professor wrote a book on how Israel was founded on a myth, it was a bestseller i Israel.

I knew a Jewish man who emmigrated to Israel, he went threw an exhaustive process looking into his Jewish credentials and references.

Isreal generally has westerns liberties and values, and like the west there is collusion and power trading between religion and government. Netanyahu came to power making concessions to the Jewish conservatives.

Israel has a demographic problem It was founded by and for Jews. In order to maintain that they can not have one state solution. They loose a political majority. Israel wants to stay Jewish. Israel can not open o larhe scale non Jewish immigration like the west, Israel woud no long be Jewsih.
This is mainstream political analysis, no conspiracy theory.

In the 90s the Israeli govt acknowledged Arabs in Israeli we ted analogous to our Jim Crow, discriminations in housing, financial, and goby services.

Israel led the west on gay rights and marriage. Positives and negatives.

On the plus side Israel created a modern state in the middle of a sea of shit and chaos, no small thing.

I knew a Jewish woman in the 70s who married a Catholic man. I met her parents, they were ok with it. Some in her extended family shunned her, treating her lke a non person. Jews have their own set of bias and prejudice.

Jews are the same as anyone. Israel has its positives and negatives as do we in the USA.

Note that under the Brits there Jews labeled terrorists, like Menachim Begin. There were terror bombings by Jews.

I look at both the Palestinians side and the Israeli side. Both have valid grievances and questionable actions.

If I met a Jew I neither look down or give any special recognition, I look at who the person is. Gay, straight, black, white, or Jew all the same people to me.


I suggest taking a balanced view taking into account all sides and issues, it is not one sided as the Jewish propaganda plays it to America conservatives.

Those are my views that developed over time. If you consider that prejudiced or right wing rhetoric that is your prerogative.
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I would say you views are simplistic and apologetic.

We can take it up on politics.

Yes, we definitely need another thread on Politics about Israel!

It always ends up in the same place, nowhere.
 
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