If the economy is so great, why don't more people feel better off?

[laughing dog]

Net present value is the sum of future returns discounted for inflation. When inflation is low the earnings don't get discounted as much as when they are high. Thus you expect stock prices to rise in times of low inflation and drop in times of high inflation.

Net present value is the sum of future cash flows discounted for the opportunity cost of funds. That opportunity cost includes more than the rate of inflation - the risk free real rste of return and a risk premium..

 

[DBT]

I'm simply pointing out what happened.

You said it, but you haven't shown that that is what happened. I was asking for evidence.

Look around!

The stock market has gone up a lot.

The ultra-wealthy almost always have most of their wealth in the stock market. On average their wealth will move with the market.

Ignoring this shows it's just political garbage, not a serious argument.

Stocks can go down in a rising market. People don't sink their money into a dog of a stock. A successful business is built on more than just an image or name.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Look around!

The stock market has gone up a lot.

The ultra-wealthy almost always have most of their wealth in the stock market. On average their wealth will move with the market.

Ignoring this shows it's just political garbage, not a serious argument.

Stocks can go down in a rising market. People don't sink their money into a dog of a stock. A successful business is built on more than just an image or name.

Generally, rising stocks are a good indication of the economy. When the economy is going well, people are spending, they are happy, confident. This means that sales are going up, profits are increasing, stocks are going up. When going into a downturn, people stop buying, slow these down, save more and etc which hurts sales. These are general trends.

 

[lpetrich]

Generally, rising stocks are a good indication of the economy. When the economy is going well, people are spending, they are happy, confident. This means that sales are going up, profits are increasing, stocks are going up. When going into a downturn, people stop buying, slow these down, save more and etc which hurts sales. These are general trends.

I think that it would be better to look at such indicators directly, rather than presume that stock prices are all one will ever need as a proxy for them.

That's because of financial bubbles, and also because stock is not much more than adult trading cards, like baseball cards or Pokemon cards.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Look around!

The stock market has gone up a lot.

The ultra-wealthy almost always have most of their wealth in the stock market. On average their wealth will move with the market.

Ignoring this shows it's just political garbage, not a serious argument.

Stocks can go down in a rising market. People don't sink their money into a dog of a stock. A successful business is built on more than just an image or name.

Individual stocks may go down but we are talking about a wide variety of stocks. It's pretty much impossible for a whole bunch of major stocks to go down when the market is going up.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Look around!

The stock market has gone up a lot.

The ultra-wealthy almost always have most of their wealth in the stock market. On average their wealth will move with the market.

Ignoring this shows it's just political garbage, not a serious argument.

Stocks can go down in a rising market. People don't sink their money into a dog of a stock. A successful business is built on more than just an image or name.

Generally, rising stocks are a good indication of the economy. When the economy is going well, people are spending, they are happy, confident. This means that sales are going up, profits are increasing, stocks are going up. When going into a downturn, people stop buying, slow these down, save more and etc which hurts sales. These are general trends.

True, but stocks also react to interest/inflation rates.

 

[DBT]

The economy doesn't do so well if people have a tight budget. The retail sector suffers, cafes, restaurants, flow on effect, etc.

 

[Elixir]

Generally, rising stocks are a good indication of the economy. When the economy is going well, people are spending, they are happy, confident. This means that sales are going up, profits are increasing, stocks are going up. When going into a downturn, people stop buying, slow these down, save more and etc which hurts sales. These are general trends.

That is (apparently) true but incomplete. Certainly stocks rise when consumers are confident. Problem is, consumers are not very good at assessing whether they have good reason to be confident. But markets go up in conditions of false confidence just as much as when confidence is well founded. That's why short term players are generally fixated on consumer confidence numbers.
Right now, Trump and his cabal are playing what appears to me to be an excellent confidence game. He has The Stoopids responding to every single nuance, every false statement, every blame-laying explanation for things that go wrong. He has twisted the fed's arm to lower interest rates to make himself look good, has raided the treasury to dump trillions of taxpayer dollars into corporations and individuals who own the bulk of all large company stocks. He can tell The Stoopids that "China is solved!" and the markets will respond VERY predictably, despite the fact that Cheato has destroyed the China market for many American goods, and the likelihood that he has actually solved anything approaches zero. He tells the idiots that they're rich, and they are confident. It's a house of cards, and there will be nowhere to go when (if) The Stoopids realize that their Orange Judas has sold them out.

 

[ZiprHead]

Boeing's fired CEO got his $62 million payout confirmed the same day 2,800 people in the 737 Max supply chain were laid off

 

[southernhybrid]

Sorry, but imo, a big part of the reason why the stock market has continued to rise is due to two things. The Republicans gave corporations a huge tax break, and a lot of the largest corporations used that extra money for stock buy backs.

Wages only went up 2.9 percent, after being stagnant for many years. That's really not going to help those who work in retail, as nursing aides, or any other type of low skilled labor.

And, please don't say that these peoples should go back to school and learn a trade or get a degree. Not everyone is capable or has the time to do that. I did go back to school to become a nurse when I couldn't even get any job with my 3 years as an English major, but I was married, and lived an extremely frugal life, long before cell phones, the internet and cable television were invented. Not everyone has the extreme motivation that I had during that period of time. Not everyone is smart enough to earn a nursing degree or become a computer programmer, or a mechanic, electrician etc. Nobody should have to work for wages that are so low that they have to depend on help from the government along with food banks, etc. End of rant.

The economy is doing well for the wealthy and those who have college degrees in areas where the pay is generous. For the rest, it's not so good at all. Poor people don't own stocks, so the stock market is a poor indicator of the over all economy. For older adults, the low interest rates are not helpful, since most older adults can't afford or don't feel comfortable risking their savings in the stock market.

Most older adults aren't benefitting from this economy. Medicare Part B premium has just risen again for the third year in a row. Drug copays are erratic, and Social Security raises have been pittance because inflation has been low. Low inflation is good up to a point, but it can be harmful if it's consistently less than 2 percent. The current economy is over rated imo.

 

[lpetrich]

Dow soars past 29,000 for first time, brushing off weak jobs report

The new milestone for the 30-member index came after a disappointing monthly government labor report, with just 145,000 jobs gained for the month of December, sluggish gains in annual wage growth, and downward revisions for November and October job totals.

NBC News on Twitter: "BREAKING: Dow soars past 29,000 for first time; crossed the 28,000 mark just 37 days ago. https://t.co/aR8yjVdxmG" / Twitter
2020 Jan 10

With response
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "The Dow soars, wages don’t.
Inequality in a nutshell. https://t.co/hD1g1y4uBk" / Twitter

Someone responded with an inline image file that I transcribed as "Trying to show the poor that they're better off by pointing out how well the stock market is doing is like my boss telling me I don't need a raise and showing me his brand new Mercedes as evidence."

 

[RVonse]

And, please don't say that these peoples should go back to school and learn a trade or get a degree. Not everyone is capable or has the time to do that. I did go back to school to become a nurse when I couldn't even get any job with my 3 years as an English major, but I was married, and lived an extremely frugal life, long before cell phones, the internet and cable television were invented. Not everyone has the extreme motivation that I had during that period of time. Not everyone is smart enough to earn a nursing degree or become a computer programmer, or a mechanic, electrician etc. Nobody should have to work for wages that are so low that they have to depend on help from the government along with food banks, etc. End of rant.

The US is supposed to be a capitalistic economy. In that context, the only way for wages of low skilled jobs to rise is for either the supply of labor to decrease or the number of those type of jobs to increase.

Say what you will about Trump. But he is actually addressing your rant by limiting the supply of low skilled labor entering the United States. Its just that simple and it is why unemployment for low skilled labor is now the best since the 1960's right now. Wages have not yet come up yet but having low unemployment is the start for demanding and getting higher wages. Keep out the illegal immigration and those wages WILL eventually rise.

The paradox is that the democrats who pretend to be for the working poor have actually not represented their interests like Trump has. It is the secret they have over the ill informed to keep them voting democrat.

Most older adults aren't benefitting from this economy.

Most older adults today are part of the baby boomer generation. And they are the ones who now own all the housing property that has inflated massively thanks to the actions of the fed. If a baby boomer owns a now paid off home in San Fransisco, Los Angeles, Seattle, he (she) is extremely wealthy now. They have benefited from the system far more than other younger generations who are saddled with college debt.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And, please don't say that these peoples should go back to school and learn a trade or get a degree. Not everyone is capable or has the time to do that. I did go back to school to become a nurse when I couldn't even get any job with my 3 years as an English major, but I was married, and lived an extremely frugal life, long before cell phones, the internet and cable television were invented. Not everyone has the extreme motivation that I had during that period of time. Not everyone is smart enough to earn a nursing degree or become a computer programmer, or a mechanic, electrician etc. Nobody should have to work for wages that are so low that they have to depend on help from the government along with food banks, etc. End of rant.

The US is supposed to be a capitalistic economy. In that context, the only way for wages of low skilled jobs to rise is for either the supply of labor to decrease or the number of those type of jobs to increase.

Say what you will about Trump. But he is actually addressing your rant by limiting the supply of low skilled labor entering the United States. Its just that simple and it is why unemployment for low skilled labor is now the best since the 1960's right now.

Talk about skimming the facts, this rate was also close to it in the late 90s, and mid aughts. While technically lower than that, it isn't by much, and based on the data, illegal immigration holdups wasn't what led to those lows in the 90s and mid aughts. In fact, unemployment rate for uneducated workers isn't much lower now than when Trump took office. Which again, points to the absolute bullshit that Trump has turned anything around. These trends existed well before he took office.

The paradox is that the democrats who pretend to be for the working poor have actually not represented their interests like Trump has. It is the secret they have over the ill informed to keep them voting democrat.

*spit-take*

 

[RVonse]

Talk about skimming the facts, this rate was also close to it in the late 90s, and mid aughts. While technically lower than that, it isn't by much, and based on the data, illegal immigration holdups wasn't what led to those lows in the 90s and mid aughts.

Regardless of the anyone's spin or reporting, you simply can not deny the laws of economics. Less supply of unskilled labor imported has to = higher wages and lower unemployment for existing labor. And that is exactly why most republican business owners have always historically wanted illegals and Hb1 visa's in order to drive down labor to the lowest level.

The democrats don't care so much about driving down the cost of labor but their goal ends up to be exactly the same. Because they want the same illegals to expand their voter base. But either way, both dems and republicans are dead against high wages for low skilled labor. Only Trump and he alone is on the side of low skilled labor rates for existing workers.

To say otherwise is disingenuous. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKuEBt4DQzg

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Talk about skimming the facts, this rate was also close to it in the late 90s, and mid aughts. While technically lower than that, it isn't by much, and based on the data, illegal immigration holdups wasn't what led to those lows in the 90s and mid aughts.

Regardless of the anyone's spin or reporting, you simply can not deny the laws of economics. Less supply of unskilled labor imported has to = higher wages and lower unemployment for existing labor. And that is exactly why most republican business owners have always historically wanted illegals and Hb1 visa's in order to drive down labor to the lowest level.

The democrats don't care so much about driving down the cost of labor but their goal ends up to be exactly the same. Because they want the same illegals to expand their voter base. But either way, both dems and republicans are dead against high wages for low skilled labor. Only Trump and he alone is on the side of low skilled labor rates for existing workers.

To say otherwise is disingenuous. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKuEBt4DQzg

You get called out on your spin and then make with the cloak of false equivalence. Seriously, you made a meaningless bravo to Trump, just like Trump loves to insinuate he turned around the economy any time he can. He has ridden this economic wave that existed before him and you have loved to laud praise on him. It really is annoying how some people want so desperately to praise that asshole for an economy that is actually performing spite of his actions.

 

[RVonse]

Talk about skimming the facts, this rate was also close to it in the late 90s, and mid aughts. While technically lower than that, it isn't by much, and based on the data, illegal immigration holdups wasn't what led to those lows in the 90s and mid aughts.

Regardless of the anyone's spin or reporting, you simply can not deny the laws of economics. Less supply of unskilled labor imported has to = higher wages and lower unemployment for existing labor. And that is exactly why most republican business owners have always historically wanted illegals and Hb1 visa's in order to drive down labor to the lowest level.

The democrats don't care so much about driving down the cost of labor but their goal ends up to be exactly the same. Because they want the same illegals to expand their voter base. But either way, both dems and republicans are dead against high wages for low skilled labor. Only Trump and he alone is on the side of low skilled labor rates for existing workers.

To say otherwise is disingenuous. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKuEBt4DQzg

You get called out on your spin and then make with the cloak of false equivalence. Seriously, you made a meaningless bravo to Trump, just like Trump loves to insinuate he turned around the economy any time he can. He has ridden this economic wave that existed before him and you have loved to laud praise on him. It really is annoying how some people want so desperately to praise that asshole for an economy that is actually performing spite of his actions.

You think that about Jim Cramer too?

 

[laughing dog]

You get called out on your spin and then make with the cloak of false equivalence. Seriously, you made a meaningless bravo to Trump, just like Trump loves to insinuate he turned around the economy any time he can. He has ridden this economic wave that existed before him and you have loved to laud praise on him. It really is annoying how some people want so desperately to praise that asshole for an economy that is actually performing spite of his actions.

You think that about Jim Cramer too?

Why would anyone think Mr. Cramer has done anything to actually improve our economy?

 

[Patooka]

You think that about Jim Cramer too?

Are you talking about the idiot with the absurd money show who got eviscerated by some obscure comedian from New York during the financial crisis? Why would anyone use him as an authority on anything?

 

[RVonse]

You think that about Jim Cramer too?

Are you talking about the idiot with the absurd money show who got eviscerated by some obscure comedian from New York during the financial crisis? Why would anyone use him as an authority on anything?

Because unlike most everyone on this board, Cramer is not a political hack with some kind of liberal ax to grind. I see him as someone who only cares about being right about stocks and money.

 

[laughing dog]

You think that about Jim Cramer too?

Are you talking about the idiot with the absurd money show who got eviscerated by some obscure comedian from New York during the financial crisis? Why would anyone use him as an authority on anything?

Because unlike most everyone on this board, Cramer is not a political hack with some kind of liberal ax to grind. I see him as someone who only cares about being right about stocks and money.

Too bad he is often very wrong about stocks and money.