Il Douchebag to militarize the border

[southernhybrid]

Very few? Hardly! And there is an entire convoy of illegals crossing Mexico from Honduras as we speak.


Unfortunately. Protecting the border and deporting illegals (rather than supporting them like most Dems are doing, first and foremost Gov. Moonbeam) is one of the few good ideas he has.

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The real question is, will the Federalis have badges?

No, I am not wrong and what you've said here is not only exaggerated, but it sounds paranoid.

I am very pissed that we don't have more immigrants coming in because the vast majority of them are hard working people who are willing to take the shit jobs that very few Americans will take. Who do you think does most of the most laborious farm work, most of the meat packing work and a large percentage of taking care of frail older adults who need help in their homes. I'd make every one that can be vetted to come into the country and help us fill these jobs, pay taxes and add to SS and Medicare. Trump isn't just trying to keep out undocumented workers, he wants to keep out most immigrants.

And, the people who are fleeing Honduras, are asking for refugee status. They are fleeing violence and horrible conditions. Would you not want to find a better place to live if you were living in such conditions? Why do you hate these people so much? I've worked with immigrants from Haiti, and Guatemala, as well as nurses from Asian countries. Everyone of them earned my respect. Everyone of them were assets to our country. Everyone came in as a refugee.

And, it's fine to say that all immigrants should come here legally, if that was an option for all. But, many aren't even given a chance to prove themselves. There was a time when refugees were welcomed. Many of my ancestors came to the US during the early 1900s. Very few people were turned away back then. It was very easy to come in legally back then. It's very difficult to come in legally today and our disjointed president is making it even more difficult. I can only hope that people will start to take their voting right more seriously and stop listening to the propaganda that is spouted by some of our so called news organizations.

 

[Derec]

No, I am not wrong and what you've said here is not only exaggerated, but it sounds paranoid.

On the contrary, it is you who is too complacent.

I am very pissed that we don't have more immigrants coming in because the vast majority of them are hard working people who are willing to take the shit jobs that very few Americans will take.

First of all, all immigration should be legal. If there is need, it should be done via visas, not swimming across Rio Grande.
Second, this attitude depresses wages for Americans. When you have many people coming from shithole countries who do not mind living in very cramped conditions, then they will accept low wages and thus will depress wages for Americans. US has many Americans on welfare. Why don't they do these jobs?

Who do you think does most of the most laborious farm work, most of the meat packing work and a large percentage of taking care of frail older adults who need help in their homes. I'd make every one that can be vetted to come into the country and help us fill these jobs, pay taxes and add to SS and Medicare. Trump isn't just trying to keep out undocumented workers, he wants to keep out most immigrants.

He wants to end the practice of easily moving an entire extended family once one of them immigrates into the US. He wants to make the immigration system more merit based like Canada has. That would make the immigration system more receptive to workforce needs, not less.

And, the people who are fleeing Honduras, are asking for refugee status. They are fleeing violence and horrible conditions. Would you not want to find a better place to live if you were living in such conditions?

There is no war in Honduras. Thus, they are not refugees. And as we have seen from the "undocumented minor" mass migration of 2014-15, many of these people supposedly fleeing gang violence were themselves gang members.
Do you want European conditions where millions keep flooding in based on spurious claims of being "refugees"?

Why do you hate these people so much? I've worked with immigrants from Haiti, and Guatemala, as well as nurses from Asian countries. Everyone of them earned my respect. Everyone of them were assets to our country. Everyone came in as a refugee.

I do not hate these people. But I think mass migration is a bad idea. We are seeing it play out in Europe, which is getting increasingly islamicized.
Immigrants should come legally and should be willing to learn English.

And, it's fine to say that all immigrants should come here legally, if that was an option for all. But, many aren't even given a chance to prove themselves.

Well it would be completely impractical to allow everyone who wants to come in to immigrate here. There must be limits for practical reasons. There are 7 billion people in the world after all.

There was a time when refugees were welcomed. Many of my ancestors came to the US during the early 1900s. Very few people were turned away back then.

Well population of the US in 1900 was only 76 million. It is 327 million now. And it was much more difficult and expensive to travel long distances back then, so fewer people did it. So obviously few people would be turned back under those conditions. But that would be completely unpractical today.

It was very easy to come in legally back then. It's very difficult to come in legally today and our disjointed president is making it even more difficult. I can only hope that people will start to take their voting right more seriously and stop listening to the propaganda that is spouted by some of our so called news organizations.

Well the US and the World were very different back then. So obviously the immigration policies were different. We need fewer immigrants now than in 1900 but at the same time more people want to come and have the means to do so.

 

[Derec]

Honduras is one of the most, if not the most dangerous country in the world. There may not be a declared war but there certainly is a war going on there. Doesn't really matter if there is a declaration or not if you are dead.

Sure the crime rate is high,but that is no war and thus they are not refugees.
And do we really want to be importing the high crime rate by importing all these Hondurans? Just look how well that worked out with Salvadorans and MS13.

 

[Derec]

How do you fit all those racist pictures on your desktop or is it an app?

How is that a racist picture? It's an iconic scene from The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, you philistine.

 

[Derec]

The military is absolutely intended to defend the nation against invaders, but the people walking into the country are for all intents and purposes invited. There's a huge financial incentive for them to cross the border, and when they arrive there are American companies who are more than happy to give them jobs.

We absolutely need tougher penalties for hiring illegals.

They're not invaders. They're employees. Crossing the border is their commute to work.

You cannot have a viable country with the attitude that international borders are no more significant than driving down I-75 to work.

 

[Derec]

The number of Mexicans entering America is less than the number of Mexicans leaving. It's been this way for a few years now.

What's the net migration rate per year? And how long will it take for all 12-20 million illegals to all vamanos from here?

There are no armies of "illegals" crossing the border. They are flooding back into Mexico because the economic elites you worship have driven the economy so far into the toilet that they don't want to come here as much anymore.

When have I "worshiped" economic elites? They are part of the problem for employing illegals and resisting meaningful means to stop illegals from finding work. Establishment Republicans are part of the problem here.

Anyway, if you don't watch FOX News, where do you get your conservative propaganda from?

It's not propaganda. There really was a convoy or caravan or whatever you want to call it, of illegals from Honduras. Apparently it has been broken up now.

You always use the same talking points at the same time as all the other conservatives, so you obviously gave up thinking for yourself a long time ago and are obviously consuming some kind of conservative media in common with most of the other right wingnuts, so which is it?

I can think for myself. More than you do for sure. You are reliably following the Left of American politics. I, on the other hand, prefer to make up my own mind. On some issue I agree more with Democrats. On others, more with Republicans. On yet others I think both sides are full of shit. For example, both parties are wrong on their demonization of consensual sex work. On immigration, between sanctuary cities/states and pardoning criminals (including at least one violent felon) so they won't get deported, I side more with Republicans, although they too are problematic due to their allegiance to big business like Tyson chicken (they employ many illegals in their chicken plants) and milquetoast pussywhipped idiots like aforementioned JEB.

Did you give up on FOX News because they were "too liberal" for you? Did you go for the harder stuff at Stormfront, Daily Stormer, or Breitbart? Alex Jones?

When in possession of no arguments, start with insults.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Poor Derec. An immigrant upset about other people trying to immigrate to the nation he immigrated to. Granted, those people don't come from the 'shit hole' country that he did.

 

[Derec]

Poor Derec. An immigrant upset about other people trying to immigrate to the nation he immigrated to. Granted, those people don't come from the 'shit hole' country that he did.

You'd have a point if I was against all immigration. But I am not.
I am against illegal, unrestricted, uncontrolled migration that the Left champions by for example flouting immigration laws by giving sanctuary to illegals.

 

[Angry Floof]

Poor Derec. An immigrant upset about other people trying to immigrate to the nation he immigrated to. Granted, those people don't come from the 'shit hole' country that he did.

You'd have a point if I was against all immigration. But I am not.
I am against illegal, unrestricted, uncontrolled migration that the Left champions by for example flouting immigration laws by giving sanctuary to illegals.

No one is for completely unrestricted, uncontrolled open borders except maybe a few fringe people. Maybe.

Is there any issue or topic you can't twist into something completely unrecognizable as the actual issue?

And just to note yet again, inhumane ideologies will never succeed at solving human problems.

 

[ZiprHead]

The migrant caravan denounced by Trump will end in Mexico City, but some people vow to go on alone

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The migrant caravan denounced by Trump will end in Mexico City, but some people vow to go on alone

And Mexico isn't a place of safety? Asylum seekers are supposed to stop in the first safe countryy they enter.

 

[laughing dog]

First of all, there is no war in Honduras, so they are not "refugees".

Wrong. Educate yourself here  Refugee. In 1951, the UN defined a refugee as any person who
owing to well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it." So, war is not a necessary condition for someone to be viewed as a refugee by most of humanity.

They are illegal immigrants.

In order for these Hondurans to be classified as illegal immigrants, they would have to be breaking Mexican law. Do you have any evidence that this caravan/group of Hondurans heading to Mexico City to claim asylum are illegal immigrants in Mexico?

 

[Derec]

Wrong. Educate yourself here  Refugee.

Still does not apply to our caravaners.

In 1951, the UN defined a refugee as any person who

UN has some weird definitions (like defining Palestinian refugees, and only Palestinian refugees, as patrilineal descendants of 1948 refugees in perpetuity) but let's play.

owing to well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality,

So you think Catholic Latinos of Honduran nationality are being persecuted in Honduras for being Catholic, Latino and Honduran?

membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it."

So, just wanting to leave the country due to high crime rate does not apply. Thought so.

In order for these Hondurans to be classified as illegal immigrants, they would have to be breaking Mexican law. Do you have any evidence that this caravan/group of Hondurans heading to Mexico City to claim asylum are illegal immigrants in Mexico?

I meant in the US. Mexicans are giving them transit visas to proceed North to the Land of generous government benefits (I swear, every time I am behind a Latina in a grocery store she pays with WIC vouchers!) and sanctuary cities. They just gave the caravaners transit visas for them to invade US.

“I see it as something really sad, because I don’t understand how a child this age can make things difficult for him,” said Hernandez, a 27-year-old who is two months pregnant.
She would like to get into the U.S., where she has a cousin in Houston. Crime in Honduras was so bad that she decided to embark on the difficult a journey across several international borders with two young asthmatic sons, the younger of whom is now sick and on antibiotics.

So she wants a) to make an anchor baby just because she would give birth on US soil and b) to unload healthcare for her other two kids onto US taxpayers.

Mayra Zepeda, 38, of Honduras, said that once she gets documents to cross Mexico, she and her husband will continue their journey toward the border city of Tijuana. She said they hope to find better paying jobs there and aren’t planning to try to cross into the U.S.

Yeah, sure, people are just clamoring to move to Tijuana and never cross from there to San Diego.

The couple left Honduras in December after incumbent President Juan Orlando Hernandez was declared the winner of a contested election. The factory where she made T-shirts for export closed due to the weeks of instability that followed the election, she said.

A closed T-shirt factory does not qualify somebody as "refugee" or "asylum seeker" either. More like economic migrant.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The migrant caravan denounced by Trump will end in Mexico City, but some people vow to go on alone

And Mexico isn't a place of safety? Asylum seekers are supposed to stop in the first safe countryy they enter.

I'm sure plenty of parts of Mexico could be considered safe, assuming you aren't a US soccer fan after the US beats Mexico in Mexico City (doesn't happen often), but aren't lots of places in Mexico not safe at all... drug trade and all?

 

[Underseer]

The migrant caravan denounced by Trump will end in Mexico City, but some people vow to go on alone

And Mexico isn't a place of safety? Asylum seekers are supposed to stop in the first safe countryy they enter.

As of a few years ago, the number of Mexicans leaving America for Mexico exceeded the number of Mexicans leaving Mexico for America. It was in the news. We talked about it on this forum, although I don't recall if you personally participated in that thread.

So as per your own argument, America is a less safe place than Mexico.

Given what's going on with police brutality and mass shootings and a president who makes excuses for Nazis, you may have a point.

 

[laughing dog]

Still does not apply to our caravaners....blah blah blah....

Do you have some actual disinterested evidence as to the caravaners' reasons, because all I saw in your response was assumptions.

I meant in the US.

SiInce they are not in the US, your comment was and is a textbook example of irrelevant.

 

[Playball40]

There are no armies of "illegals" crossing the border.

What's more, the immigrants crossing the border are not armies or an invasion. They're being paid to come here.

The military is absolutely intended to defend the nation against invaders, but the people walking into the country are for all intents and purposes invited. There's a huge financial incentive for them to cross the border, and when they arrive there are American companies who are more than happy to give them jobs.


They're not invaders. They're employees. Crossing the border is their commute to work.

Actually the majority of border crossers right now are women and children seeking asylum due to the violence in Honduras and neighboring countries. Many are choosing to stay in Mexico too.

 

[ZiprHead]

Still does not apply to our caravaners.

UN has some weird definitions (like defining Palestinian refugees, and only Palestinian refugees, as patrilineal descendants of 1948 refugees in perpetuity) but let's play.

owing to well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality,

So you think Catholic Latinos of Honduran nationality are being persecuted in Honduras for being Catholic, Latino and Honduran?

membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it."

So, just wanting to leave the country due to high crime rate does not apply. Thought so.

In order for these Hondurans to be classified as illegal immigrants, they would have to be breaking Mexican law. Do you have any evidence that this caravan/group of Hondurans heading to Mexico City to claim asylum are illegal immigrants in Mexico?

I meant in the US. Mexicans are giving them transit visas to proceed North to the Land of generous government benefits (I swear, every time I am behind a Latina in a grocery store she pays with WIC vouchers!) and sanctuary cities. They just gave the caravaners transit visas for them to invade US.

“I see it as something really sad, because I don’t understand how a child this age can make things difficult for him,” said Hernandez, a 27-year-old who is two months pregnant.
She would like to get into the U.S., where she has a cousin in Houston. Crime in Honduras was so bad that she decided to embark on the difficult a journey across several international borders with two young asthmatic sons, the younger of whom is now sick and on antibiotics.

So she wants a) to make an anchor baby just because she would give birth on US soil and b) to unload healthcare for her other two kids onto US taxpayers.

Mayra Zepeda, 38, of Honduras, said that once she gets documents to cross Mexico, she and her husband will continue their journey toward the border city of Tijuana. She said they hope to find better paying jobs there and aren’t planning to try to cross into the U.S.

Yeah, sure, people are just clamoring to move to Tijuana and never cross from there to San Diego.

The couple left Honduras in December after incumbent President Juan Orlando Hernandez was declared the winner of a contested election. The factory where she made T-shirts for export closed due to the weeks of instability that followed the election, she said.

A closed T-shirt factory does not qualify somebody as "refugee" or "asylum seeker" either. More like economic migrant.

From Merriam-Webster: Definition of refugee: one that flees; especially : a person who flees to a foreign country or power to escape danger or persecution

And to counter your cherry-picking:

After fleeing San Pedro Sula, Honduras, because of gang threats, Katerina Dominguez Enamorado, 22, had been in Tapachula, a southern Mexico town

One of them, Maria Elena Colindres Ortega, 43, had been a congresswoman in Honduras until January. She said she joined in the hope of eventually applying for political asylum in the United States. More than 20 people were killed in post-election protests, and Honduras has long been a dangerous place for activists.

“I couldn’t wait for them to kill me,” Colindres Ortega said.

Misael Bonilla, 31, carried his three children’s birth certificates and a printed photograph of his slain brother-in-law that he hoped would be enough to allow his family to apply for asylum in the United States. The family has moved three times to evade the Barrio 18 street gang, which he said had fired gunshots at his house, left death threats on his phone and sent his stepson threats on Facebook.

 

[Underseer]

https://www.politicususa.com/2018/0...sis-to-distract-china-trade-war-disaster.html

According to this Trump is raising a big stink about the border and stirring up the racism of right wing voters in order to distract everyone from what a disaster his "trade war" with China has turned out to be.

 

[starwater]

https://www.politicususa.com/2018/0...sis-to-distract-china-trade-war-disaster.html

According to this Trump is raising a big stink about the border and stirring up the racism of right wing voters in order to distract everyone from what a disaster his "trade war" with China has turned out to be.

And the Mueller investigation and Stormy Daniels kerfluffle, and, and, and.....