Ilhan Omar is dumber than a bag of hammers!

[Derec]

It's about this tweet:


She obviously doesn't have the foggiest about what "fossil fuels" are or what copper and nickel are used for. Both of these metals are not fossil fuels, but Copper is a great conductor and thus indispensable for using more electricity and getting away from fossil fuels. In particular, there is more than three times as much copper in an electric car as there is in an ICE car - not just for extra wiring but also for windings (and for induction motors like Tesla uses, also the rotor squirrel cage) of the motor.


Nickel is also not a fossil fuel. Rather, it is used in some Li-ion battery cathodes, particularly in NCA (LiNiCoAlO₂) used by Tesla.


So, Ilhan Omar is very wrong about linking this mine to fossil fuels. The reality is exactly opposite - we need the materials mined in this mine to get away from fossil fuels. No amount of bloviating about the "Green New Deal" and similar nonsense will magic electric cars etc. out of thin air!

By the way, this is the article she linked to.
Minnesota court rejects major permits for PolyMet mine
The faux "environmentalists" trying to block mining are as bone-headed as Ilhan Omar!

 

[Jarhyn]

It's about this tweet:
View attachment 25698

She obviously doesn't have the foggiest about what "fossil fuels" are or what copper and nickel are used for. Both of these metals are not fossil fuels, but Copper is a great conductor and thus indispensable for using more electricity and getting away from fossil fuels. In particular, there is more than three times as much copper in an electric car as there is in an ICE car - not just for extra wiring but also for windings (and for induction motors like Tesla uses, also the rotor squirrel cage) of the motor.
View attachment 25699

Nickel is also not a fossil fuel. Rather, it is used in some Li-ion battery cathodes, particularly in NCA (LiNiCoAlO₂) used by Tesla.
View attachment 25700

So, Ilhan Omar is very wrong about linking this mine to fossil fuels. The reality is exactly opposite - we need the materials mined in this mine to get away from fossil fuels. No amount of bloviating about the "Green New Deal" and similar nonsense will magic electric cars etc. out of thin air!

By the way, this is the article she linked to.
Minnesota court rejects major permits for PolyMet mine
The faux "environmentalists" trying to block mining are as bone-headed as Ilhan Omar!

Or, we could look at the vast quantities of both copper and nickel that we already have and don't use (pennies). We don't need another copper/nickel mine, especially in Minnesota. Now if it was a rare-earth mine opening, I would oppose the opposition. But it isn't. So I won't.

 

[zorq]

Most pennies these days are 97.5% zinc and only 2.5% copper. Just an fyi.

 

[Jarhyn]

Most pennies these days are 97.5% zinc and only 2.5% copper. Just an fyi.

I see. At any rate, Minnesota, and humans in general, don't need another copper mine. It is not the limiting agent in the pursuit of sustainable or advanced technologies. Might as well propose another oil well, it fracking site.

We SHOULD be concentrating on using what we have more wisely. Oh, I know, we can pull up all that copper that telecoms put in the ground instead of fiber! That would be a good start.

Heaven knows it has a better work/product ratio ripping pure metal out of the ground over processing ore.

Might as well propose opening a diamond mine, get some more intrinsically worthless rocks out of the ground in exchange for destroying the environment!

No, I'm gonna be proud of MY representative who is keeping MY state free of destructive and wholely unnecessary environmental damage.

Come to me again when it's a rare-earth mine and maybe we can talk then.

 

[Toni]

The faux "environmentalists" trying to block mining are as bone-headed as Ilhan Omar!

Thanks.

 

[Trausti]

 

[Derec]

Now if it was a rare-earth mine opening, I would oppose the opposition. But it isn't. So I won't.

Lanthanides (rare-earth metals) are hardly the only metals it is necessary to mine ...

 

[Derec]

I see. At any rate, Minnesota, and humans in general, don't need another copper mine.It is not the limiting agent in the pursuit of sustainable or advanced technologies.

That is demonstrably false. Transition to more electrified, less fossil-fuel energy landscape, is increasing copper demand significantly.

Might as well propose another oil well, it fracking site.

Not the same thing at all, even if I am not opposed to fracking oil and gas since we cannot transition away from these energy sources in the short term.

And whatever you think about necessity of copper and nickel mining, can we at least agree that Ilhan Omar equating metal mining with fossil fuels was very stupid?

We SHOULD be concentrating on using what we have more wisely. Oh, I know, we can pull up all that copper that telecoms put in the ground instead of fiber! That would be a good start.

You want to rip up all the copper telecom lines and replace all of them with fiber? Over what time-frame? Who would pay for that?

Heaven knows it has a better work/product ratio ripping pure metal out of the ground over processing ore.

Not if you have to replace all of them with fiberoptics. Not to mention that it would not yield that much in the grand scheme of things.

Might as well propose opening a diamond mine, get some more intrinsically worthless rocks out of the ground in exchange for destroying the environment!

Copper and nickel are not "intrinsically worthless". And unlike diamonds, you can't (feasibly) make copper or nickel in the lab.

You mentioned pennies. As has been pointed out, modern (1982 and later) pennies are made of zinc and are only plated with copper to save on more expensive copper. But nickels are made of 75% copper and 25% nickel. Now I support abolishing both the penny and the nickel and having prices be given to one digit after the decimal point rather than two. This is due to both cumulative inflation (the nickel today is worth less than 1/5 of a penny from around the turn of the 20th century) rendering these coins increasingly worthless and to save on the not insignificant costs of these coins' manufacture, transport and handling.
But that would not render mining obsolete. Far from it. A nickel weighs 5g. If we generously assume 10 billion nickels in circulation, and assume all of them could be collected and melted down, you would get 37,500 metric tons of Cu (and 12,500 t of Ni). Every year, over 1 million metric tons of Cu are mined in US alone.
And to replace 100,000,000 ICE cars (so not nearly all of cars in US, but a nice round number) with battery-electric versions would take about 6 million metric tons, not counting charging infrastructure.

No, I'm gonna be proud of MY representative who is keeping MY state free of destructive and wholely unnecessary environmental damage.

Mining for unsexy outer transition metals is definitely necessary and not necessarily destructive.

Come to me again when it's a rare-earth mine and maybe we can talk then.

What's witchu and this lanthanide fetishization? As if the rest of the periodic table didn't even exist.

 

[barbos]

Yes, she is dumb. Still I am surprised that US still have economically viable copper mines.

 

[Minnemooseus]

She did bungle the "fossil fuel execs" thing, although it wouldn't surprise me is those execs also had their fingers in the northern Minnesota sulfide mining projects.

Sulfide mining and processing is historically a very contaminating process, and I share the doubts that it can be done in northern Minnesota without it becoming an ecological mess.

There is a second sulfide mining project in northern Minnesota (Twin Metals) that is in the same watershed area as a wilderness area (the Boundary Waters Canoe Area). Needless to say, that one is also having hold ups in progressing.

For additional reading adventure, on might wish to muck around https://www.epa.gov/superfund/abandoned-mine-lands-site-information .

Moose (lives in same county, within about 60 miles of the locations in question.

 

[Minnemooseus]

Sulfide mining and processing is historically a very contaminating process, and I share the doubts that it can be done in northern Minnesota without it becoming an ecological mess.

The pro-mining crowd is going to let me have the last word in this topic?

Moose

 

[lpetrich]

I searched for "Dalia for Congress" and I found Dalia al-Aqidi for Congress -

Agents of anger and discord like Rep. Ilhan Omar are tearing at America from within. On the surface, we look the same. We're both women, refugees, Muslims. But we couldn't be further apart. She sows seeds of division, defending our enemies. When I became an American citizen, I took an oath to defend the Constitution and defend our country from all enemies, foreign and domestic.

I've seen up close the consequences of what radical Ilhan Omar is doing. Conflict. Division. Oppression. I escaped that world once, and I won't let it happen here. I'm running for Congress because we're not as divided as Ilhan Omar and the far-left would have us believe. I'm running to bring us closer together.

To put it simply, Ilhan Omar needs to be stopped. Her consistent anti-Semitic comments and hateful rhetoric towards America as a whole is doing untold damage to both Minnesota and the rest of the country. Every week, more scandal and corruption floods out of her office. Minnesota deserves a representative in Congress who is going to fight for their interests, not someone who is obsessed with raising their own celebrity profile.

DaA is an Iraqi.

I was reminded of Catalina Lauf - Heartland - YouTube - her mother and grandmother are from Guatemala.

Given what immigrants the Trump Administration demonizes, both DaA and CL's mother would be unacceptable immigrants. CL brags about how her mother is a *legal* immigrant, but the Trump Admin is trying to make legal immigration more difficult.

 

[Jarhyn]

I searched for "Dalia for Congress" and I found Dalia al-Aqidi for Congress -

Agents of anger and discord like Rep. Ilhan Omar are tearing at America from within. On the surface, we look the same. We're both women, refugees, Muslims. But we couldn't be further apart. She sows seeds of division, defending our enemies. When I became an American citizen, I took an oath to defend the Constitution and defend our country from all enemies, foreign and domestic.

I've seen up close the consequences of what radical Ilhan Omar is doing. Conflict. Division. Oppression. I escaped that world once, and I won't let it happen here. I'm running for Congress because we're not as divided as Ilhan Omar and the far-left would have us believe. I'm running to bring us closer together.

To put it simply, Ilhan Omar needs to be stopped. Her consistent anti-Semitic comments and hateful rhetoric towards America as a whole is doing untold damage to both Minnesota and the rest of the country. Every week, more scandal and corruption floods out of her office. Minnesota deserves a representative in Congress who is going to fight for their interests, not someone who is obsessed with raising their own celebrity profile.

DaA is an Iraqi.

I was reminded of Catalina Lauf - Heartland - YouTube - her mother and grandmother are from Guatemala.

Given what immigrants the Trump Administration demonizes, both DaA and CL's mother would be unacceptable immigrants. CL brags about how her mother is a *legal* immigrant, but the Trump Admin is trying to make legal immigration more difficult.

IOW, DaA is running on a platform "I am a Muslim, and I will sit down and shut up rather than fight vocally for what I believe in"

 

[lpetrich]

DaA's video used Adam Schiff and Ilhan Omar calling for Trump's impeachment as evidence of divisiveness, and also used what CL used: AOC getting angry in a committee hearing and Rashida Tlaib getting dragged out of a Trump event in 2016.

Not long after she was sworn in, RT said that "we are going to impeach the motherfucker" and when she headed to the impeach vote, she wore bright red and she seemed in a very good mood.

The AOC clip is from AOC goes off after critics mock Green New Deal - CNN Video "Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez went off during a House Financial Services Committee meeting after Rep. Sean Duffy mocked the effort of the "Green New Deal" as nothing more than an elitist fantasy." (also ‘This is not an elitist issue’: AOC on Republican inaction on climate change –video - YouTube) So those two Republicans quoted it out of context.

Both clips seem inspired by The Courage to Change | Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez - YouTube - her 2018 campaign video. She gave us a short autobiography, she then described the problems of her district, and she then described what she proposes to do about them. The video showed her campaigning in her district, and showed everyday scenes there.

 

[Elixir]

DaA's video used Adam Schiff and Ilhan Omar calling for Trump's impeachment as evidence of divisiveness, and also used what CL used: AOC getting angry in a committee hearing and Rashida Tlaib getting dragged out of a Trump event in 2016.

Not long after she was sworn in, RT said that "we are going to impeach the motherfucker" and when she headed to the impeach vote, she wore bright red and she seemed in a very good mood.

The AOC clip is from AOC goes off after critics mock Green New Deal - CNN Video "Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez went off during a House Financial Services Committee meeting after Rep. Sean Duffy mocked the effort of the "Green New Deal" as nothing more than an elitist fantasy." (also ‘This is not an elitist issue’: AOC on Republican inaction on climate change –video - YouTube) So those two Republicans quoted it out of context.

Both clips seem inspired by The Courage to Change | Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez - YouTube - her 2018 campaign video. She gave us a short autobiography, she then described the problems of her district, and she then described what she proposes to do about them. The video showed her campaigning in her district, and showed everyday scenes there.

The right is right to be scared shitless. (Of course that's their normal state, so if it wasn't IO/AOC it would be someone or something else.)

 

[Derec]

The pro-mining crowd is going to let me have the last word in this topic?

Of course not. Too many threads, not enough time.
But, if you calling me pro-mining, does that make you anti-mining? Are you a keep-it-in-the-grounder?

 

[jab]

It's about this tweet:
View attachment 25698

She obviously doesn't have the foggiest about what "fossil fuels" are or what copper and nickel are used for. Both of these metals are not fossil fuels, but Copper is a great conductor and thus indispensable for using more electricity and getting away from fossil fuels. In particular, there is more than three times as much copper in an electric car as there is in an ICE car - not just for extra wiring but also for windings (and for induction motors like Tesla uses, also the rotor squirrel cage) of the motor.
View attachment 25699

Nickel is also not a fossil fuel. Rather, it is used in some Li-ion battery cathodes, particularly in NCA (LiNiCoAlO₂) used by Tesla.
View attachment 25700

So, Ilhan Omar is very wrong about linking this mine to fossil fuels. The reality is exactly opposite - we need the materials mined in this mine to get away from fossil fuels. No amount of bloviating about the "Green New Deal" and similar nonsense will magic electric cars etc. out of thin air!

By the way, this is the article she linked to.
Minnesota court rejects major permits for PolyMet mine
The faux "environmentalists" trying to block mining are as bone-headed as Ilhan Omar!

Or, we could look at the vast quantities of both copper and nickel that we already have and don't use (pennies). We don't need another copper/nickel mine, especially in Minnesota. Now if it was a rare-earth mine opening, I would oppose the opposition. But it isn't. So I won't.

an ignorant, uninformed, too eagerly partisan (can't-wait-to-get-the-facts-before-briefly-bloviating) tweet worthy of the great Trump himself.

 

[Derec]

I searched for "Dalia for Congress" and I found Dalia al-Aqidi for Congress -

DaA is an Iraqi.

She also seems like only a nominal Muslim.

I was reminded of Catalina Lauf - Heartland - YouTube - her mother and grandmother are from Guatemala.

Given what immigrants the Trump Administration demonizes, both DaA and CL's mother would be unacceptable immigrants. CL brags about how her mother is a *legal* immigrant, but the Trump Admin is trying to make legal immigration more difficult.

I cannot speak for anybody else, but I do think our immigration system is broken, and that includes parts of legal immigration.

Take refugee resettlement. While refugees need to be helped, most of it should be closer to home, not halfway around the world. Refugee resettlement for example should be scrutinized more. If somebody is a devout Muslim who keep his woman in a burqa (like many "refugees" resettled in Clarkston, Ga do), they should be resettled to a Muslim country, not US or Europe.

The "chain migration" where one legal immigrant can eventually bring his entire extended family is also something rightly targeted by the Trump administration. Also K1 visa fraud, which is rampant, especially from Maghreb, should receive more scrutiny.

That is not to say there should be a blanket ban on immigrants from anywhere, but there should be better vetting of potential immigrants. That and easier deportation and no services/jobs for those who come here illegally.

 

[Derec]

She did bungle the "fossil fuel execs" thing, although it wouldn't surprise me is those execs also had their fingers in the northern Minnesota sulfide mining projects.

It's called diversification. In the long term, fossil fuels will lose in importance, but as I have explained in the OP, the importance of mined metals like copper, nickel, lithium etc. wil rise, and for the same reasons.

Sulfide mining and processing is historically a very contaminating process, and I share the doubts that it can be done in northern Minnesota without it becoming an ecological mess.
There is a second sulfide mining project in northern Minnesota (Twin Metals) that is in the same watershed area as a wilderness area (the Boundary Waters Canoe Area). Needless to say, that one is also having hold ups in progressing.

I think we can mine responsibly - which does not mean zero impact, as that is impossible to achieve in the real world. We (despite Jarhyn's fantasies of getting all the copper we need from smelted pennies) definitely will need to mine for more metals in the future.
In other words, we really don't have a choice, even if mining has some downsides. Even if we eschew all copper/nickel mining in the US, we would have to import them all from countries like Chile, which then would have to dig up their ground more than they already do. And environmental regulations in most other countries are weaker than in US, so there is a net environmental cost. Add to that the economic cost of lost mining and support jobs, and lost tax and royalty revenues to the government.

Moose (lives in same county, within about 60 miles of the locations in question.

That's one big county!

 

[Elixir]

Maybe the Space Force can bring us some asteroid shit.


Oh, wait.... no. Can't have the government controlling critical means of production or anything - that would be a communo-socialist threat to billionaires.