Implant Nuclear Launch Codes in Volunteer's Heart

[Loren Pechtel]

Another problem: All the KGB needs to do is figure out who it is and they are basically guaranteed victory. Figure out where the guy is going to be. Take the location out with a suitcase nuke. Now launch. The codes are gone, we can't fire back.

That's not a new problem, though. They get the same effect nuking the place where the Football is.

No, because the football isn't the only copy of the codes. Nuke the football and the VP issues the launch orders. Get him also and IIRC it's the Speaker of the House that gets to push the red button.

Note, also, that by their very nature boomers aren't subject to launch codes in the first place. If a boomer finds that we've been blown to bits they can launch on their own without any orders from Washington.

 

[Keith&Co.]

No, because the football isn't the only copy of the codes. Nuke the football and the VP issues the launch orders.

Oh. So the football has backups. Why can't the 'kill for the codes' system have back-ups?

Get him also and IIRC it's the Speaker of the House that gets to push the red button.

The red button is IN the football. How many red buttons do they have, ready to issue?

Note, also, that by their very nature boomers aren't subject to launch codes in the first place. If a boomer finds that we've been blown to bits they can launch on their own without any orders from Washington.

Not since the Denzel Washington movie. Critical keys are located in a safe that no one on board has the combination to.

Part of procedure for verifying that the launch command is a valid message is the fact that it will include the codes to open the safe. The issuing of those combinations is part of the process the Prez starts when he issues the proper codes.

 

[dx713]

Oh. So the football has backups. Why can't the 'kill for the codes' system have back-ups?

Get him also and IIRC it's the Speaker of the House that gets to push the red button.

The red button is IN the football. How many red buttons do they have, ready to issue?

Note, also, that by their very nature boomers aren't subject to launch codes in the first place. If a boomer finds that we've been blown to bits they can launch on their own without any orders from Washington.

Not since the Denzel Washington movie. Critical keys are located in a safe that no one on board has the combination to.

Part of procedure for verifying that the launch command is a valid message is the fact that it will include the codes to open the safe. The issuing of those combinations is part of the process the Prez starts when he issues the proper codes.

Don't know if it's still the case, or if it works that way on your side of the Ocean, but the French boomers also needed TWO set of keys entered at the same time in two different rooms (normaly by the CO and the XO) to unlock launch, as a protection against the "captain gone mad" plot.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Don't know if it's still the case, or if it works that way on your side of the Ocean, but the French boomers also needed TWO set of keys entered at the same time in two different rooms (normaly by the CO and the XO) to unlock launch, as a protection against the "captain gone mad" plot.

The critical launch keys are divided between two commissioned officers. The key to the firing unit that shoots the missile up into the air, the system panel key that allows the weapon system to initiate the launch into the air and the permission to fire key, all held in safes with different people holding the combination.
They don't have to be entered simultaneously, but when the Weapons officer pulls the trigger (which is also locked in a safe), the circuit checks to see all the keys are in place.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Don't know if it's still the case, or if it works that way on your side of the Ocean, but the French boomers also needed TWO set of keys entered at the same time in two different rooms (normaly by the CO and the XO) to unlock launch, as a protection against the "captain gone mad" plot.

The critical launch keys are divided between two commissioned officers. The key to the firing unit that shoots the missile up into the air, the system panel key that allows the weapon system to initiate the launch into the air and the permission to fire key, all held in safes with different people holding the combination.
They don't have to be entered simultaneously, but when the Weapons officer pulls the trigger (which is also locked in a safe), the circuit checks to see all the keys are in place.

If they don't have to be simultaneous one person could take them all and insert them.

 

[Keith&Co.]

The critical launch keys are divided between two commissioned officers. The key to the firing unit that shoots the missile up into the air, the system panel key that allows the weapon system to initiate the launch into the air and the permission to fire key, all held in safes with different people holding the combination.
They don't have to be entered simultaneously, but when the Weapons officer pulls the trigger (which is also locked in a safe), the circuit checks to see all the keys are in place.

If they don't have to be simultaneous one person could take them all and insert them.

AFTER getting at least two officers to agree to open their safes and give them to you, sure.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If they don't have to be simultaneous one person could take them all and insert them.

AFTER getting at least two officers to agree to open their safes and give them to you, sure.

What if you simply cut your way into the safe?

 

[bilby]

AFTER getting at least two officers to agree to open their safes and give them to you, sure.

What if you simply cut your way into the safe?

Yup. Nothing simpler than cutting your way into a locked safe, on a submarine full of people who are dedicated to stopping you from doing it, using only the tools you have to hand.

Are you going for the super-simple 'do it without being detected' option; the relatively simple 'kill anyone who tries to stop you' option; or the totally easy and straightforward 'kill everyone on board first, then do it at your leisure' technique?

What if you simply broke into Fort Knox, stole all the gold, and used it to buy a small nation, develop your own nuclear armed and propelled submarine fleet, and then nuked someone using your own launch codes and navy to do the job?

Simples.

 

[Jayjay]

Besides if you are in a position to break into the safes with the codes, why not break directly into the launching mechanism and bypass the codes altogether?

Sometimes Loren's scenarios go off in weird tangents.

 

[bilby]

Besides if you are in a position to break into the safes with the codes, why not break directly into the launching mechanism and bypass the codes altogether?

Sometimes Loren's scenarios go off in weird tangents.

No, no; Didn't you hear? It's simple.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Besides if you are in a position to break into the safes with the codes, why not break directly into the launching mechanism and bypass the codes altogether?

Sometimes Loren's scenarios go off in weird tangents.

Anti-tamper systems on the launching mechanism.

I don't know what they had on the subs, on some land-based missiles the rocket engine itself implemented the codes. Break into that and the bird isn't going to fly.

 

[arkirk]

Law professor Roger Fisher suggested that nuclear launch codes be implanted in a volunteer's heart. The president would be required to personally take the life of an innocent person before taking the lives of hundreds of millions.

https://books.google.com/books?id=y...QS37YD4CQ&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false

I don't think this would do any good, but it's a novel thought.

NOT REALLY SUCH A NOVEL THOUGHT. Can we sign YOU up? A truly novel thought would be to work at the elimination of all nuclear weapons stockpiles and reduce them to zero. Now THAT WOULD NOT ONLY BE A NOVEL THOUGHT. IT ALSO WOULD BE THE BEST ONE.

 

[Keith&Co.]

AFTER getting at least two officers to agree to open their safes and give them to you, sure.

What if you simply cut your way into the safe?

With what?
Strangely, all the safes are designed to resist anything that's carried on board the submarine....

One's designed to rebuff most of the stuff in the refit facility, too.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Besides if you are in a position to break into the safes with the codes, why not break directly into the launching mechanism and bypass the codes altogether?

That was a game we played. Part of becoming familiar with the system, how would you circumvent the safety mechanisms.
Problem was, for most of them, you'd need so many people to be in on the circumvention, it would have to include the people with the safe combinations, so it'd be just as easy for the whole crew to go rogue.

The most critical would be the firing unit key. The final point of the launch circuit, that generates the gas bubble that pushes the missile out, it's pretty well armored, so difficult to jumper out, and requires a very specific voltage and frequency anyway. Again, hard to generate with anything we had on board.
Plus, we were all in a Reliability Program so we'd never do anything like that....

 

[Keith&Co.]

Law professor Roger Fisher suggested that nuclear launch codes be implanted in a volunteer's heart. The president would be required to personally take the life of an innocent person before taking the lives of hundreds of millions.

https://books.google.com/books?id=y...QS37YD4CQ&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false

I don't think this would do any good, but it's a novel thought.

NOT REALLY SUCH A NOVEL THOUGHT. Can we sign YOU up? A truly novel thought would be to work at the elimination of all nuclear weapons stockpiles and reduce them to zero. Now THAT WOULD NOT ONLY BE A NOVEL THOUGHT. IT ALSO WOULD BE THE BEST ONE.

I'd guess Fisher just wants to end nuclear aggression by making it unpalatable, rather than dealing with the issues that make nuclear defense seem necessary.

I always kinda thought that nuclear aggression was already unpalatable. That's the whole point of nuclear deterrence...that it'd be a bad thing...

 

[NobleSavage]

NOT REALLY SUCH A NOVEL THOUGHT. Can we sign YOU up? A truly novel thought would be to work at the elimination of all nuclear weapons stockpiles and reduce them to zero. Now THAT WOULD NOT ONLY BE A NOVEL THOUGHT. IT ALSO WOULD BE THE BEST ONE.

Yeah, I'd volunteer. How the fuck are you gonna eliminate all nuclear weapons? How is your perpetual motion machine comping along?

 

[Keith&Co.]

How the fuck are you gonna eliminate all nuclear weapons?

Well, that one's easy.
Come up with something worse. No one's going to maintain a costly nuclear arsenal if the other guy has a weapon that makes Shiva hide under the couch.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

NOT REALLY SUCH A NOVEL THOUGHT. Can we sign YOU up? A truly novel thought would be to work at the elimination of all nuclear weapons stockpiles and reduce them to zero. Now THAT WOULD NOT ONLY BE A NOVEL THOUGHT. IT ALSO WOULD BE THE BEST ONE.

Only to someone who doesn't think of consequences.


A world without nuclear weapons would be more dangerous than the current world. The problem is the genie is out of the bottle, there's no way to stop black hats from building new nuclear weapons.

- - - Updated - - -

What if you simply cut your way into the safe?

With what?
Strangely, all the safes are designed to resist anything that's carried on board the submarine....

One's designed to rebuff most of the stuff in the refit facility, too.

A safe can only delay entry, it can't prevent it.

 

[bilby]

What if you simply cut your way into the safe?

With what?
Strangely, all the safes are designed to resist anything that's carried on board the submarine....

One's designed to rebuff most of the stuff in the refit facility, too.

A safe can only delay entry, it can't prevent it.

Really? How long do you think it would take you to get into a safe, without the combination, and using only the tools typically found on board a submarine - bearing in mind that the safe was explicitly designed to be resistant to those tools typically found on board the submarine?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What if you simply cut your way into the safe?

With what?
Strangely, all the safes are designed to resist anything that's carried on board the submarine....

One's designed to rebuff most of the stuff in the refit facility, too.

A safe can only delay entry, it can't prevent it.

Really? How long do you think it would take you to get into a safe, without the combination, and using only the tools typically found on board a submarine - bearing in mind that the safe was explicitly designed to be resistant to those tools typically found on board the submarine?

And somebody can't bring more tools??