In Bob We Trust: Kaepernick, Comicsgate, Nike, Superman, etc

[Underseer]

Kaepernick/Nike
Moviebob yells at the "more liberal than thou" crowd. Yes, Nike is a bad company that does bad things all over the world, but the fact that they came down on the Colin Kaepernick side pretty much shows that Kaepernick already won this one and the racists lost. It's not that the Nike ads proves that Nike is good (they're not), but giant corporations are risk-averse, so the fact they so boldly came down on Kaepernick's side suggests that freedom of speech already won and racism already lost.

I would agree with Moviebob on this one.

Comicsgate
Honestly, I haven't been following this because I don't read comic books very regularly anymore. Basically, those comic book shops have kind of a stranglehold on the (admittedly dying) industry and it's mostly just 30something to 50something white males who go to those comic book shops, so the marketing data for comic book sales tends to skew towards the "I hate SJWs" crowd. Thus, many of these newer titles that feature female, non-white, or non-binary characters die on the vine and get canceled, then once those same titles start getting collected in trade paperbacks where they get sold outside the comic book shops, they suddenly start to sell very well.

For me, this is good and bad news. I don't read comic books as regularly as I used to, but from the few comic books I've read recently, I like some of the newer diversity characters a lot and was disappointed when their books got canceled. Hopefully, the comic book industry will be able to find a market outside of those comic book shops because the industry will die if they don't. They need new markets and new blood.

Superman
Honestly, I didn't get to this part of the video yet, but as for my own observations, I do think a black Superman would be genuinely interesting. Kal El is an alien, so does it really matter what race actor plays him? But if they are going to risk the wrath of white supremacists by casting a non-white actor, I think a Latino actor would be a more interesting choice than an African/African-American actor.

After all, Superman is basically an idealized immigrant story. If you're going to have something interesting to say about immigration in the modern world, then I think a Latino actor would be a more interesting choice than an African-American actor, and would offer different and more interesting thematic avenues.

If DC wants to comment on immigration on a global scale instead of just America, and is willing to risk even more screaming from the white supremacist crowd, they could even pick an Arab or Persian actor, but I'm guessing that would be too controversial for Warner Brothers. We don't want to piss off the neo-Nazis. Remember what they did to the Guardians of the Galaxy director?

 

[Underseer]

Finished the video finally. It was pretty rambling, so I think it was unscripted and don't watch it unless you're really into comic books and superhero movies.

He did suggest that race-flipping Superman is unlikely, but he did think that if DC decides to change the race of a member of the triumvirate, it would be Batman before Superman. I have to admit that an African-American Batman would make for some interesting themes. Then again, an Asian actor would also be interesting because both Marvel and DC are kind of lacking in decent Asian heroes.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I can't see them recasting Batman or Superman any time soon. If they can't convince Affleck or Cavell to do another one, they'll just stick with secondary characters for the next decade or so until its time for a reboot. MovieBob does make a good point about their going all in with the female movies because of Wonder Woman being a success being indicative of the same problems which have led them to where they are now.

 

[Mumbles]

As far as "Comicsgate" goes, one nice part is that, unlike the gaming industry, the comic book industry seems happy to slap down these obvious bigots - likely because the gaming industry has spent decades looking entirely at white teens-20somethings, while comics needs to expand their audience (add complaints about "single player is dying, buy these lootboxes" thinking here). That "Comics & Diversity" guy managed to pick a fight with Gail Simone, who basicalyl just mocked his overpriced comic book attempt as "dollar menu GI Joe fanfiction".

Which it is.

And then there's this gem from Salamin Ahmed.

 

[Underseer]

As far as "Comicsgate" goes, one nice part is that, unlike the gaming industry, the comic book industry seems happy to slap down these obvious bigots - likely because the gaming industry has spent decades looking entirely at white teens-20somethings, while comics needs to expand their audience (add complaints about "single player is dying, buy these lootboxes" thinking here). That "Comics & Diversity" guy managed to pick a fight with Gail Simone, who basicalyl just mocked his overpriced comic book attempt as "dollar menu GI Joe fanfiction".

Which it is.

And then there's this gem from Salamin Ahmed.

Good. I hope they win out in the end.

I thought female Thor was a hell of a lot more interesting than the original. How can you not love an ultimate badass whose alter ego is[ent]hellip[/ent]

Show

[ent]hellip[/ent]dying of cancer? She gets a bit hedonistic, but who can blame her? She's dying.

Totally Awesome Hulk quickly became my favorite Asian character in the Marvel universe.

Sadly, they're bringing the white guys back. Boo.

Anyway, Cavil is probably out, and Ben Affleck is out as well. I have no feelings one way or the other about Cavil since my problem has been with the writing and directing. I think most fans were unfair to Affleck. His performance was great; again, the problem was with the writing and directing. If they stay, great. If they go, I wish both actors the best.

Mostly, whatever happens, I just hope DC starts making better movies. Competition is good for the consumer and all that.

But I do still say a black of Asian Batman would be epic awesomesauce, and I still say that if you're going to change the race of Superman, it should be Latino instead of African-American (as much as I like Michael B. Jordan).

 

[KeepTalking]

Comicsgate
Honestly, I haven't been following this because I don't read comic books very regularly anymore. Basically, those comic book shops have kind of a stranglehold on the (admittedly dying) industry and it's mostly just 30something to 50something white males who go to those comic book shops, so the marketing data for comic book sales tends to skew towards the "I hate SJWs" crowd. Thus, many of these newer titles that feature female, non-white, or non-binary characters die on the vine and get canceled, then once those same titles start getting collected in trade paperbacks where they get sold outside the comic book shops, they suddenly start to sell very well.

For me, this is good and bad news. I don't read comic books as regularly as I used to, but from the few comic books I've read recently, I like some of the newer diversity characters a lot and was disappointed when their books got canceled. Hopefully, the comic book industry will be able to find a market outside of those comic book shops because the industry will die if they don't. They need new markets and new blood.

I read comic books regularly, picking up about 10-15 issues a week, and I have only been marginally aware of ComicsGate. About the only exposure I have had to that attitude was shortly after Ta Nehisi Coates started his first run on Black Panther. There was a white male, probably a few years younger than I, standing in front of the new releases with one of the employees, lamenting the "recent" trend of comic books becoming "political". He seemed to be referring Marvel in general, and to Black Panther specifically. For his part the clerk was trying to be neutral, and just suggested that the person let Marvel know how he felt with the power of his wallet. Even though I was a few issues in, and already enamored with the new BP run, I made a show of picking up the book, flipping through the pages, and saying "This looks great!" before adding it to my weekly haul.

Back when I was a kid (I am one of the 50 somethings mentioned above), there was no such thing as a "Comic Book Store", at least not that I was aware of in my part of the midwest. I got my comics from news stand racks at the grocery store, or from more generalized book stores. Neither had a great selection, there were fewer titles available back then anyway, and the industry not only survived, but thrived. In the early '80's I stopped reading comics, and at some point between that time and the late '90's, when I started reading again, there had been a shake up, and Comic Book Shops were king. There is another shake up underway, it seems, but there are also more comics to choose from than ever. Digital distribution is in full swing, and I have a fair number of digital titles, but I am actually less likely to read digital books. I am just much more partial to a physical book. Another avenue for acquiring new books is crowdfunding, and internet sales of physical books. I have been doing quite a lot of this with independent titles, and new publishers that have a hard time getting into the comic book stores. Comic Book Stores may start dying off, or consolidating, but I haven't seen much of that happening in my area just yet. Then again, most Comic Book Stores I am familiar with don't even bill themselves at that, but rather as Comics and Gaming Stores (FLGS, or Fantasy Local Gaming Store). They are a one-stop shop for almost everything geek. Board games are seeing quite the resurgence these days, and those sections of the stores are constantly increasing in size. I still haven't seen the new issue comics sections downsizing, but I have noticed the areas reserved for back issues scaling down to accommodate.

It seems to me that now is one of the best times to be a comic book reader. There is just so much out there to choose from, whether you are willing to look beyond the store shelves, or not. I know there is a crunch coming, the industry cannot possibly sustain the glut of titles available currently, but I am enjoying the diversity of not only characters, but titles to choose from.

 

[Underseer]

@KeepTalking,

Like many Gen X idiots, I collected comic books rabidly in the 80s and 90s because I stupidly believed that I was making an investment. I saw all the news reports about this or that old comic book selling for millions of dollars, and simply didn't understand that the new comic books would never sell for so much money because people were actually keeping old issues instead of throwing them away like those old Golden Age comic books were.

By the time I figured out that my comic book collection in the Mylar sleeves would never be worth anything, I was burned out. Just burned out. I had read too many comic books and needed a change of pace. Computer games and Japanese cartoons provided that.

I still don't read regularly, but to the extend that i read at all, I've been brought back by the digital revolution. It's thanks to Amazon Kindle and Google Play Books that I started reading comic books again. I've fallen in love with most of Marvel's new second generation diversity characters, and I'm frankly bummed that the older Silver Age generation is coming back because of the whining of the pro-racism idiots in the comic book community. Why the fuck are they even reading Marvel comic books at all?

The only reason DC had the first female hero is because of a quirk. They just happened to hire Marsten who was way ahead of his time on women's issues (although just as fucked up as the other people of his time on race issues). Other than the Wonder Woman exception, Marvel was first to the punch on most diversity issues, and DC had to play catch-up. They not only beat DC to the punch in that department, but they beat the rest of popular media by a country mile. For fuck's sake, they introduced Afro-futurism to white audiences in the 1960s long before the term Afro-futurism was ever coined. If you're the kind of person who sneers while using terms like "political correctness" or "social justice warrior," then you have no business reading Marvel comics, or watching Star Wars movies (the bad guys are space Nazis), or watching Star Trek (beat Marvel to the punch in having an African-descended woman in a position of military command, and having the first Asian male character who wasn't a ridiculous stereotype).

It fucking pisses me off seeing people whining about the increase in comic book characters who are not white men. What the fuck kind of Marvel fan gets angry at Marvel for having diversity characters? Those idiots aren't real Marvel fans and they should just go away. They also shouldn't go anywhere near Star Trek or Star Wars.

Fuck
those
guys.

Fuck all of them. Why do morons like that get any kind of voice at all in the nerd community?

How many women of color had to shut down their Instagram accounts in recent because those fucking troglodytes won't fucking shut the fuck up? Now they've pushed James Gunn out of the MCU and may have wrecked the movie version of Guardians of the Galaxy. Guess what, assholes? The all-white male fantasyland you grew up in is never coming back. Die mad about it.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Does being the black lady who answers the phones count as "military command"?

 

[Mumbles]

Yeah, these guys tried to attack Star Trek for being "SJW now' - fans basically called them Ferengi.

Star Wars fans laughed at them for not realizing before that the Empire/First Order were basically space Nazis.

Tabletop RPGs have mocked the few that tried it as well.

So they went after She-Ra, which you may have heard of. "She looks like a man now!" they said of the young teenaged girl. "They made her an orphan" they cried, not realizing that she was always an orphan.

I think their only major win outside of gaming was Gunn, and that was more that freak Mike Cernovich than any of the plebs.

 

[bilby]

Like many Gen X idiots, I collected comic books rabidly in the 80s and 90s because I stupidly believed that I was making an investment. I saw all the news reports about this or that old comic book selling for millions of dollars, and simply didn't understand that the new comic books would never sell for so much money because people were actually keeping old issues instead of throwing them away like those old Golden Age comic books were.
....

Ironically, in another hundred years or so, enough of these treasured collections that turned out to be valueless will have been destroyed because they are valueless that the few surviving examples will be worth a fortune.

Your investment was sound - you just MASSIVELY underestimated the time that would be needed for it to show a solid return.

 

[KeepTalking]

Like many Gen X idiots, I collected comic books rabidly in the 80s and 90s because I stupidly believed that I was making an investment. I saw all the news reports about this or that old comic book selling for millions of dollars, and simply didn't understand that the new comic books would never sell for so much money because people were actually keeping old issues instead of throwing them away like those old Golden Age comic books were.
....

Ironically, in another hundred years or so, enough of these treasured collections that turned out to be valueless will have been destroyed because they are valueless that the few surviving examples will be worth a fortune.

Your investment was sound - you just MASSIVELY underestimated the time that would be needed for it to show a solid return.

I have to agree here. My original collection was almost totally wiped out when my basement flooded 15 years ago. There were a lot of books in there that might be very valuable now, but were likely already too beat up to be worth a whole lot. One stand out for me was Uncanny X-Men #2, a book that is currently worth over $40,000 gem mint (grade 10) graded. Of course my copy was not graded, and it would probably be optimistic to say it was grade 5. I read the shit out of that book when I was kid. Still, a grade 5 book would be worth about $500 these days. Not bad for a 12 cent comic purchased by one of my cousins in 1963. My oldest comic book is now Avengers #42, which is graded Very Fine (grade 8). That book is, interestingly enough, worth $42 today, and was also originally purchased for 12 cents, but in 1967. That is not my most valuable comic, though. I have a copy of Alpha Flight #17 that would be worth about $2,800 gem mint, even though it was published in 1998. I have it out for grading now, but it is at least near mint (9.4), and hopefully a couple grades higher, so it is probably worth a few hundred bucks. Pretty good for a comic I picked up for $1 in a bargain bin. The reason it is valued so highly now is because it features the first appearance of Big Hero 6, and I snatched it out of the bargain bin a couple years before the movie came out. You never know which book will become valuable, or when it will become that valuable. I have a couple of books that are worth a bit more than normal because they are first editions with misprints that were corrected later. I also have a lot of comics that are worth 20 times the cover price or more. But when the cover price was a dollar or less, it doesn't seem all that impressive. Taken together though, it makes my collection a decent investment. I doubt I will ever cash in on it, but my kids or grandkids might.

There is always the one caveat with collecting comics, that everyone who has been collecting for a while will tell a novice, or anyone who asks what a collection they have inherited is worth. A comic is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. That Alpha Flight comic I have might be worth $2800 in theory, but it is really only worth what I can get for it at the time I decide to sell it. In general, the more quickly you want to offload a book or collection, the less you are likely to get for it. On the other hand, I have seen some questionably valued books go for more than I would have expected on Ebay.

Though I am technically a comic collector, I don't view myself as such. I have a large collection because I like to read comics, and I can afford to read as many comics as I can keep up with right now. I have no plans to sell any of them, and my greatest hope for them is that my grandkids will get a lot of enjoyment out of reading them as they get older. My oldest grandchild (4yo) is just now becoming interested in them, and will climb up in my lap to read along with me if she sees me reading Wonder Woman or any book that has catchy cover art. It is my comics fan dream come true.