In the Wee Hours of the Morning, (AKA The First Death of Innocence)

[Toni]

I actually wasn't trying to goad you at all. I'm pointing out an observation. But if you want to play that way, you've made some pretty nasty personal attacks on me. Loren even said my leg should be broken--with zero consequences.

You seem to have a problem with the difference between setting a scenario and saying something should actually happen.

Sure, Loren. It is highly unlikely that two eyewitnesses would recognize the person who shot their friend/brother when that person is well known to them all.

It's much more likely that random people on the internet 60 years later or more can suss out what happened in a town that is unidentified with a victim who is unidentified, an accused perpetrator who is unidentified and two eyewitnesses who are unidentified.

Yep.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Or did you mean honour this OP by not asking any questions and leaping to prejudiced conclusions with her about the cop?

How about ASKING questions and NOT leaping to prejudiced conclusions about the cop?

Dude... I did. That's what triggered this ongoing bitching and whining against me. Go back and read the first couple of pages of this thread and find my first post in it. You've again shown you didn't read the thread.

That would be how (I'd expect) you would treat the situation if you weren't triggered.
"But maybe the cop had his reasons and maybe she remembered wrong and maybe she is trying to call everyone a racist and maybe... and maybe... and maybe..."

She remembered wrong? She is trying to call everyone racist? No. But she is leaping to prejudice without the questions I raised being answered.

Posting a litany of your doubts about the veracity of her story is EXACTLY to the form of "not asking any questions and leaping to prejudiced conclusions with her about the cop".
Can you not see that?

Good thing I didn't do that. You just shoved your foot back into your mouth. I will give the benefit of the doubt, that this is either laziness or poor memory, and not some sort of dishonest debate tactic.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Unless you've misrepresented your ancestry, you are not of African decent. No matter how much pigmentation your Filipino skin has given you, your skin tone may have more melanin than some black folks but you are not blacker.

He didn't say blacker. He said whiter. And i didn't say blacker. I said darker. You need to be more honest and quit the straw men.

Nor were your ancestors kidnapped and stolen and brought to the US to work as slaves, forbidden to read or go to school, to marry a white person, to drink from the same water fountains, go to the same school or hospitals, register to vote, vote if you managed to register, and a host of other things. Yes, in the US, as in the rest of the world. there has always been horrific racial injustices done to many different peoples. Some of it still goes on. Hearts and minds can take many generations to change and heal wrongs of the past.

Three things here. First, my ancestors are half Filipino, and 1/4 Japanese. As you are so keen on the identity politics, we should get that right before you pass your judgment. And I wonder if you have any clue whatsoever what Americans did to the Filipinos and to the Japanese. Not that it actually matters here. None of this history about racism etc you keep trying to pretend I don't appreciate is relevant to what I have written. Horrible racism doesn't excuse additional prejudice. Sorry. It doesn't.

Maybe deal with your own shit instead of trying to deny that other people have lived with a lot worse than your shit.

A lot of people have lived with and still live with a lot worse than what I have for sure. And a lot of blacks, filipinos, and yes, even some white people are living with a lot worse than anything Athena has. This attempt to distract gets you nowhere.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Why on earth would AA stick around to take the kind of abuse that certain posters around here just luuuuuuuv to heap on whatever she writes?

Do you ask the same for Derec's threads about men/women? If not, why not?

 

[Toni]

Dude... I did. That's what triggered this ongoing bitching and whining against me. Go back and read the first couple of pages of this thread and find my first post in it. You've again shown you didn't read the thread.

That would be how (I'd expect) you would treat the situation if you weren't triggered.
"But maybe the cop had his reasons and maybe she remembered wrong and maybe she is trying to call everyone a racist and maybe... and maybe... and maybe..."

She remembered wrong? She is trying to call everyone racist? No. But she is leaping to prejudice without the questions I raised being answered.

Posting a litany of your doubts about the veracity of her story is EXACTLY to the form of "not asking any questions and leaping to prejudiced conclusions with her about the cop".
Can you not see that?

Good thing I didn't do that. You just shoved your foot back into your mouth. I will give the benefit of the doubt, that this is either laziness or poor memory, and not some sort of dishonest debate tactic.

Nope. You missed entirely the point of the OP. You have instead behaved as though this is a criminal case that you are defending in court instead of recognizing this as a very painful part of AA’s family history and personal recognitions. A piece that has had profound repercussions for AA and her family.

You couldn’t buy a clue if you won the lottery 10 times over.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

You couldn’t buy a clue if you won the lottery 10 times over.

Still not goading when you do it, right? Not when you write this. Not when you accuse Loren of wishing you physical harm in the face of his attempt to correct such libel. Must be nice for you.

 

[Toni]

Why on earth would AA stick around to take the kind of abuse that certain posters around here just luuuuuuuv to heap on whatever she writes?

Do you ask the same for Derec's threads about men/women? If not, why not?

Have you ever read any of my posts in Derec's thread about dating?

 

[Toni]

He didn't say blacker. He said whiter. And i didn't say blacker. I said darker. You need to be more honest and quit the straw men.



Three things here. First, my ancestors are half Filipino, and 1/4 Japanese. As you are so keen on the identity politics, we should get that right before you pass your judgment. And I wonder if you have any clue whatsoever what Americans did to the Filipinos and to the Japanese. Not that it actually matters here. None of this history about racism etc you keep trying to pretend I don't appreciate is relevant to what I have written. Horrible racism doesn't excuse additional prejudice. Sorry. It doesn't.

Maybe deal with your own shit instead of trying to deny that other people have lived with a lot worse than your shit.

A lot of people have lived with and still live with a lot worse than what I have for sure. And a lot of blacks, filipinos, and yes, even some white people are living with a lot worse than anything Athena has. This attempt to distract gets you nowhere.

You have no idea what Athena has or has not lived with or through. You simply don't.

I have no judgment on your ancestry--you have pointed out that you are Filipino numerous times. I don't care what your ancestry is. You're the one who was claiming that Filipino you are darker than many African Americans. Big so what.

All of my uncles fought in WWII in the Pacific theater. I am well aware of what happened in Japan and the Philippines, albeit more from an American perspective as well as from other readings and other people than my relatives. I know what happens in war. I know what happened in that war. I know what happened in both WW's, in Viet Nam, in the Gulf War, in Afghanistan. What's still happening. I've had people I love in every single one of those wars. Not everybody came home uninjured. All came home with some serious damage.

I have friends who grew up in war zones. I have a friend whose mother, as a Jew, was in hiding throughout WWII in Germany. Part of my husband's extended family did not make it out of Poland. I live in a town with a heavy population from German and Polish immigrants. My great grandmother was born in Germany. She was not held in a camp during either WW. I know why she was not but Japanese Americans were.

I have friends and former co-workers who immigrated from the Philippines and became US citizens and raised their families here. My cousin married a woman from the Philippines. I've had friends from Japan. I've had friends and former co-workers from Viet Nam, from Germany. From Russia. Various parts of Africa. A lot of friends and co-workers from all over the Middle East. China. Native American. My first college room mate was Lebanese American/Muslim. She became best friends with the Jewish girl down the hall. Right after the 6 Day War. Oh, and part of my family and a number of my friends are Jewish.


This is all completely unremarkable: I'm an American.

- - - Updated - - -

You couldn’t buy a clue if you won the lottery 10 times over.

Still not goading when you do it, right? Not when you write this. Not when you accuse Loren of wishing you physical harm in the face of his attempt to correct such libel. Must be nice for you.

I am not at all certain that you understand the definition of goading.

I am dead certain I remember the post from Loren and that you do not.

 

[laughing dog]

Oh I see. I talked about this above. I would like to reiterate that unlike you I won't demand others take positions I assign to them in the face of them saying otherwise.

OK. In the second sentence after that claim, you write -

Maybe Athena will show back up in this post and run thread and say there is some ill she doesn't blame racism

Unless you can produce a quote from her that all ills are due to racism, you are clearly attributing a position to her. Since it would be unreasonable for anyone to simply write "I do not think all ills are due to racism" out of the blue, it seems to me that you are skirting a thin (and mostly meaningless) line, and are contracting your early claim.