Independents - Americans with their heads up their ass

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well, a poll came out regarding Trump's response to the Pandemic... and whether Obama would have done better.

Nearly half of Americans believe the United States would be faring better in the current coronavirus pandemic if Barack Obama were president instead of Donald Trump, according to a new Yahoo News/YouGov poll.

The survey, which was conducted May 4-5, found that a wide plurality of adults (47 percent) think the hard-hit U.S. — where more than 1.2 million COVID-19 infections have been reported and more than 73,000 people have died — would be in better shape under Obama than under Trump.

Yes folks, less that half of America thinks that Obama could have done a better job than Trump. My fucking gawd! Had Trump done nothing and just stayed out of the way, things would have been better!

Only 24 percent of Americans say the crisis would be the same; only 29 percent say it would be worse. And though partisans are predictably split — 79 percent of Democrats say Obama would have made things better while 67 percent of Republicans say he would have made things worse — a plurality of independents (45 percent) side with the Democrats.

Less than half of Independents think Obama could have done better than the shit job Trump has done.

Moore-Coulter has gone rogue.

 

[Trausti]

Yeah. If Obama was President we'd already have a vaccine and no state governor would have issued lock down orders.

 

[TSwizzle]

Yeah. If Obama was President we'd already have a vaccine and no state governor would have issued lock down orders.

If Obama had been president, I doubt we would even been aware there was a virus. He would have taken care of it before it left China.

 

[Jarhyn]

If Obama was president, we would still have the Obama era CDC and pandemic response system in place, and the US would look more like New Zealand for cases because he literally already went through this with the ebola thing and implemented an appropriate response. You can spin it all you like, but those are the actual facts.

Trump dismantled all that in 2018, was warned that this would happen, and then this happened.

 

[Trausti]

If Obama was president, we would still have the Obama era CDC and pandemic response system in place, and the US would look more like New Zealand for cases because he literally already went through this with the ebola thing and implemented an appropriate response. You can spin it all you like, but those are the actual facts.

Trump dismantled all that in 2018, was warned that this would happen, and then this happened.

So how would Obama have stopped the spread from New York City to the rest of the country?

Travel From New York City Seeded Wave of U.S. Outbreaks

The research indicates that a wave of infections swept from New York City through much of the country before the city began setting social distancing limits to stop the growth. That helped to fuel outbreaks in Louisiana, Texas, Arizona and as far away as the West Coast.

Comparison to New Zealand is inapt; it's not a major destination country and doesn't have 50 states with their own sovereign governments traditionally in charge of public health.

 

[Trausti]

Chinatown celebrates, and leaves coronavirus fears behind, at Lunar New Year parade

Surgical masks were nearly absent from this parade as organizers, elected officials, costumed characters and visitors alike showed none of the fear caused by news of the virus’ spread in China. Mayor Bill de Blasio and other officials jammed a stage on Hester Street on Mott Street – the heart of Chinatown.

Congresswoman Nydia Velazquez, a grand marshal of this year’s parade, said the city and country confronted the SARS outbreak nearly two decades ago, and now they will “successfully confront coronavirus.”

De Blasio said a lot the city faced a lot of hazards in the last 24 hours, including the shooting of two police officers, but the threat of coronavirus has yet to show itself in a “vigilant city.”

Obama would have put a halt to this? With what authority?

 

[Trausti]

Surely, Cuomo would've been okay if Obama tried to quarantine New York to stop the spread. Surely.

Cuomo: New York Quarantine Would Be ‘Federal Declaration Of War’

Following reports that President Trump was considering an “enforceable quarantine” of the tri-state area, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said in an interview with CNN on Saturday night that such a tactic was of questionable legality and would amount to no less than a “federal declaration of war.”

 

[laughing dog]

Under Obama, it is more likely we would have been better prepared for this, since the pandemic response groups would still be in place, and the funding for more mask production would not have been eliminated.

But, facts will not dissuade those suffering from TDS.

 

[Trausti]

Under Obama, it is more likely we would have been better prepared for this, since the pandemic response groups would still be in place, and the funding for more mask production would not have been eliminated.

But, facts will not dissuade those suffering from TDS.

So what specficially would Obama's pandemic response group have done that would have made a causal difference? Genuinely curious.

 

[TSwizzle]

It's pretty much a given that the virus hit California sooner, probably as early as December.

 

[Trausti]

It's pretty much a given that the virus hit California sooner, probably as early as December.

Probably. I think the understanding now is that there was an East Coast (from Europe) and West Coast (from China) strain. Obama would have known that in December.

 

[Jarhyn]

To be fair, I do support the idea of being "independent" in theory. It sounds great to say you will individually evaluate the merits of a candidate without respect to their party affiliation.

In practice, however, that all falls apart: one of the parties is Nut to Butt packed with sychophants and propaganda whores, and the FPTP system says that supporting any third party candidate is a great way to let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

As such, failure to affiliate in practice only ensures that your interests can be wholely ignored by those who would otherwise be closest to your platform at best, and a good way of making sure even what little you have left ends up being left unsupported in it's time of need.

So yes, there is no room left in America for "independents" if there ever was; the correct solution all along has been to join and capture as much from within the closest party to your ultimate goals, and drive them towards the specific planks you feel they are missing.

To do otherwise IS indeed to stuff your head up your ass so as to more efficiently smell your own farts.

 

[laughing dog]

Under Obama, it is more likely we would have been better prepared for this, since the pandemic response groups would still be in place, and the funding for more mask production would not have been eliminated.

But, facts will not dissuade those suffering from TDS.

So what specficially would Obama's pandemic response group have done that would have made a causal difference? Genuinely curious.

For some reason, I think having people who had experience with a pandemic would help. But there would have probably been more masks available for distribution.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Under Obama, it is more likely we would have been better prepared for this, since the pandemic response groups would still be in place, and the funding for more mask production would not have been eliminated.

But, facts will not dissuade those suffering from TDS.

So what specficially would Obama's pandemic response group have done that would have made a causal difference? Genuinely curious.

For some reason, I think having people who had experience with a pandemic would help. But there would have probably been more masks available for distribution.

A nationwide plan probably would have been made with. Obama wouldn't have his daughter looking at Twitter for possible treatments. States ask for help, they'd get it. We wouldn't need to second guess the Federal Government's word. Possibly put a plug in this before it got out of hand. Trump could have disappeared like a fart in the wind and let the CDC do it's job, and that would have been better than what Trump has done.

Obama couldn't possibly have done as badly as Trump.

 

[Jarhyn]

So, for the record, an immediate response to shutting down non-essential international travel, quarantine for all individuals arriving from potential hotspots, distribution of masks, immediate national adoption of social distancing protocols and clear guidance from CDC seeing immediate circulation, cooperation and coordination with the WHO, and efforts to keep them from giving China an early pass, immediate focus on making testing widely available and keeping it covered by insurance...

Pretty much everything the CDC recommended that then was immediately ignored by the Trump admin?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Under Obama, it is more likely we would have been better prepared for this, since the pandemic response groups would still be in place, and the funding for more mask production would not have been eliminated.

But, facts will not dissuade those suffering from TDS.

So what specficially would Obama's pandemic response group have done that would have made a causal difference? Genuinely curious.

1) Spent the wasted weeks preparing.
1a) We should have been using the DPA to increase production of PPE and hand sanitizer.
1b) Businesses would have had weeks to prepare to operate in a hazardous environment.

2) Not keep sending mixed messages about safety. With Obama and the Democrats having the senate masks in public would probably be the law of the land by now.

We have examples of countries doing it right--without lockdown. Lockdown is an indication of a failure to act promptly and effectively. (Although I will give China and Italy a pass on this--they got hit before we knew what we were up against.)

 

[Patooka]

If Obama was still in charge:

• Press conferences would have useful information in them.
• The amount of Americans dead from guzzling fish tank cleaner would be reduced by 100%
• Dr Phill would have been told to shut the fuck up.
• There would have been a coherent plan executed from all branches of government
• Glen Beck would be screaming at the top of his lungs this pandemic is a hoax and it's Obama's secret plan to implement Sharia law.
• Americans lives wouldn't be tabulated in a cost benefit analysis to preserve market confidence and share price.
• The Defence Production Act would have been implemented sooner and smarter, with tangible beneficial results.
• Donald Trump would be tweeting that Obama would need to resign over the 240 deaths caused by this pandemic.
• Half-life would be banned for constantly spamming about how Obama is in cahoots with China because someone on youtube made a post or something.
• This 2017 guide would have been followed with some revisions to what should be voluntary and what should be mandatory. This would lead to a death toll of under 3,000, causing people to wonder if this was all really necessary. FOX news would lead the charge calling for impeachment as "this is the worst example of abuse of power in US history!"
• Mitch McConnell would veto any funding for developing a vaccine as it is unconstitutional.

Hope that clears up all the speculation.

 

[Jarhyn]

If Obama was still in charge:

• Press conferences would have useful information in them.
• The amount of Americans dead from guzzling fish tank cleaner would be reduced by 100%
• Dr Phill would have been told to shut the fuck up.
• There would have been a coherent plan executed from all branches of government
• Glen Beck would be screaming at the top of his lungs this pandemic is a hoax and it's Obama's secret plan to implement Sharia law.
• Americans lives wouldn't be tabulated in a cost benefit analysis to preserve market confidence and share price.
• The Defence Production Act would have been implemented sooner and smarter, with tangible beneficial results.
• Donald Trump would be tweeting that Obama would need to resign over the 240 deaths caused by this pandemic.
• Half-life would be banned for constantly spamming about how Obama is in cahoots with China because someone on youtube made a post or something.
• This 2017 guide would have been followed with some revisions to what should be voluntary and what should be mandatory. This would lead to a death toll of under 3,000, causing people to wonder if this was all really necessary. FOX news would lead the charge calling for impeachment as "this is the worst example of abuse of power in US history!"
• Mitch McConnell would veto any funding for developing a vaccine as it is unconstitutional.

Hope that clears up all the speculation.

I can't help but imagine that the republicans would be doing as much as possible to sabotage the Dem response so as to make them look inept ala why can't I hold all these limes?

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Under Obama, it is more likely we would have been better prepared for this, since the pandemic response groups would still be in place, and the funding for more mask production would not have been eliminated.

But, facts will not dissuade those suffering from TDS.

So what specficially would Obama's pandemic response group have done that would have made a causal difference? Genuinely curious.

For some reason, I think having people who had experience with a pandemic would help. But there would have probably been more masks available for distribution.

After the swine flu scare, there were bills offered that would have set up a permanent fund to keep adequate PPE supplies available at all times to allow doctors and nurses to have a ready supply of these necessities on hand at all times, and to quickly start creating more at a seconds notice if another pandemic struck the USA. The GOP which controlled Senate and House made sure none of these bills were enacted. Because, Money! Taxes! careful thinking and competence, Oh Noes! So now, when we desperately need such things, we do not have them, nor a mechanism to quickly respond to these needs. Remember this come voting day. We had a chance to get a head of the curve, but the GOP shat all over that effort.

https://www.politico.com/news/magaz...two-decade-failure-prepare-coronavirus-179574
...
Meanwhile, an Obama-era improvement plan crafted post-H1N1 offered suggestions that were batted back by the Republican-led Congress— for instance, investing in the nation’s hospital preparedness program, which has undergone years of winnowing by congressional appropriators, and ensuring a sufficient supply of ventilators and masks in the stockpile, another problem that’s haunted the response to Covid-19.

"HHS aggressively contracted for the development of a next-generation, low-cost ventilator as well as the high-speed production of masks,” said Lurie, who ran the health department’s emergency preparedness efforts at the time, before handing the projects off to the Trump administration.While Obama officials’ vision has yet to be fully realized, some of their projects are still underway, current and former officials say.
But even the H1N1 crisis didn’t prevent the Obama administration from backing away from the no-holds-barred approach to national security that had characterized the Bush administration, paring back funding for preparedness amid the Great Recession. The health department and Homeland Security department cut preparedness funding by nearly $900 million between fiscal years 2010 and 2011.
...

 

[Elixir]

Genuinely curious.

That would be a first.

If Obama was still in charge:

• Press conferences would have useful information in them.
• The amount of Americans dead from guzzling fish tank cleaner would be reduced by 100%
• Dr Phill would have been told to shut the fuck up.
• There would have been a coherent plan executed from all branches of government
• Glen Beck would be screaming at the top of his lungs this pandemic is a hoax and it's Obama's secret plan to implement Sharia law.
• Americans lives wouldn't be tabulated in a cost benefit analysis to preserve market confidence and share price.
• The Defence Production Act would have been implemented sooner and smarter, with tangible beneficial results.
• Donald Trump would be tweeting that Obama would need to resign over the 240 deaths caused by this pandemic.
• Half-life would be banned for constantly spamming about how Obama is in cahoots with China because someone on youtube made a post or something.
• This 2017 guide would have been followed with some revisions to what should be voluntary and what should be mandatory. This would lead to a death toll of under 3,000, causing people to wonder if this was all really necessary. FOX news would lead the charge calling for impeachment as "this is the worst example of abuse of power in US history!"
• Mitch McConnell would veto any funding for developing a vaccine as it is unconstitutional.

Hope that clears up all the speculation.

Aren't you going to thank Patooka for satisfying your "genuine" curiosity? Or at least correct his misconception that McConnell can "veto" House-allocated funding for vaccine research?
I'd add that Obama and his daughter wouldn't have had personal financial interests including hundreds of patents to lose by pressuring China to provide bio samples for vaccine development as requested in December (or earlier, had it been Obama), and we'd therefore be WAY further down that path by now. Funding for testing and case tracking would have been in place before there was an epidemic in the US.

I know you're "not a trumpsucker" but you probably think the black guy would have been selling jungle juice as a cure from kiosks on every corner in NYC, while the valiant Liberpublicans were trying their best to honor and advance the relevant science...