Indictment coming for Netanyahu

[LordKiran]

Your evidence has nothing to do with the claim. If that's the best you can do give up now.

My evidence that the Palestinians and Jews are descended from the same ancestors has nothing to do with refuting the claim that Arabs invaded the Levant so the Jews couldn't have it? Well then, how about the evidence the Palestinian people have continuously resided in the West Bank for the past 5 thousand years, and in the area around Jericho for at least 9 thousand years? Mean anything to you?

No because that land was sold to the Israelis by people who had no legitimate claim to the land in the first place so fuckem.

Jk but probably not...

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Your evidence has nothing to do with the claim. If that's the best you can do give up now.

My evidence that the Palestinians and Jews are descended from the same ancestors has nothing to do with refuting the claim that Arabs invaded the Levant so the Jews couldn't have it? Well then, how about the evidence the Palestinian people have continuously resided in the West Bank for the past 5 thousand years, and in the area around Jericho for at least 9 thousand years? Mean anything to you?

The war isn't about genetics, it's about religion. Thus arguments about genetics don't matter.

 

[LordKiran]

My evidence that the Palestinians and Jews are descended from the same ancestors has nothing to do with refuting the claim that Arabs invaded the Levant so the Jews couldn't have it? Well then, how about the evidence the Palestinian people have continuously resided in the West Bank for the past 5 thousand years, and in the area around Jericho for at least 9 thousand years? Mean anything to you?

The war isn't about genetics, it's about religion. Thus arguments about genetics don't matter.

Your reductionist claim aside, the Palestinians have been living where they do for thousands of years, what possible justification do the Israelites have to claim land that is not theirs?

 

[Arctish]

The war isn't about genetics, it's about religion. Thus arguments about genetics don't matter.

Your reductionist claim aside, the Palestinians have been living where they do for thousands of years, what possible justification do the Israelites have to claim land that is not theirs?

Short answer: religion.

Longer answer: The Zionist belief that God gave the land to the Jews, so how long non-Jews have been living there and how closely related they are to the local Jewish population is irrelevant. Also irrelevant is how long the European Jews have been living Europe. Two thousand years isn't long enough for them to have lost the Right to take whatever land they want from non-Jews in Palestine because when YHWH gives your ancestor something it belongs to you, unless it's a curse or the position of 'slave' in Babylon.

 

[iolo]

Insanity. The ignorance and bigotry is clear.

The Palestinians have stolen no land from Israel.

Israel has stolen land non-stop from the Palestinians for decades.

When one nation is crushing another and stealing from it non-stop the motives of the oppressor are clear.

Haven't been stealing lands? Look how much of the world is Muslim these days. That's all stolen land, Islam advances by the sword.

Don't be sillier than Nature made you! What proportion of the world is 'Christian'?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The war isn't about genetics, it's about religion. Thus arguments about genetics don't matter.

Your reductionist claim aside, the Palestinians have been living where they do for thousands of years, what possible justification do the Israelites have to claim land that is not theirs?

And a lot of Jews were living there also.

Besides, the reality is that Israel exists. You can't wave a magic wand to get rid of it. Since the Jews quite rightly (there's no place else in the world they can trust to remain a safe haven over time) view Israel as their refuge of last resort they aren't going to give it up without a major fight.

- - - Updated - - -

Haven't been stealing lands? Look how much of the world is Muslim these days. That's all stolen land, Islam advances by the sword.

Don't be sillier than Nature made you! What proportion of the world is 'Christian'?

Christianity spreads mostly by the missionary. Islam spreads almost exclusively via the sword and by reproduction.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Refresh my memory: how many Israeli prime ministers have been indicted for corruption so far? For some reason I have a recollection that this has happened before, at least twice.

 

[LordKiran]

Christianity spreads mostly by the missionary. Islam spreads almost exclusively via the sword and by reproduction.

You sure about that? I know that's true for lands associated with the original caliphate and India but that hasn't been the case for places like Sub-Saharan Africa, or East Africa, or the Spice Islands, or The Great Eurasian Steppe. Okay that last one is a maybe I don't know for certain but but the other three I mentioned are all regions where Islam spread primarily through trade and protelyzation. The only reason Christianity didn't necessarily spread the same way is because the empire it spread through came pre-formed. That of course didn't stop the Charlemange from conquering the pagan saxons, cutting down their sacred tree and then using the stump to behead them by the hundreds.

Also it's important to remember that in the time of the first caliphate, religion was a far more 'fluid' affair. People were perfectly eager to convert without the threat of violence from the new empire, both because of the tax incentive, but also because "Hey, if this Caliph guy took down the Romans and made a new empire, then surely God must be with him!" So it's pretty misleading for you to suggest Islam spread through the sword. More correctly, the Caliphate spread by the sword as any empire will. Islam came after.

 

[Sarpedon]

And don't forget King 'Saint' Olaf, of Norway, who threatened to kill everyone in Iceland if they didn't convert.

 

[KeepTalking]

Since the Jews quite rightly (there's no place else in the world they can trust to remain a safe haven over time) view Israel as their refuge of last resort they aren't going to give it up without a major fight.

Seriously? It seems to me that they have chosen (or had chosen for them) absolutely the least safe place in the world as a refuge of any resort. They are surrounded by the people who hate them the most in the world, and have only survived there by virtue of very strong allies, and a superior military force of their own. Damn near any other place in the world would be a safer place for them.

 

[Sarpedon]

The idea is that the only place where they'd be safe is where they have a majority and their own means of self defense. A not unreasonable view.

 

[Sarpedon]

And the previous PM to be indicted (and actually convicted and imprisoned) was Olmert. He's recently been released.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Since the Jews quite rightly (there's no place else in the world they can trust to remain a safe haven over time) view Israel as their refuge of last resort they aren't going to give it up without a major fight.

Seriously? It seems to me that they have chosen (or had chosen for them) absolutely the least safe place in the world as a refuge of any resort. They are surrounded by the people who hate them the most in the world, and have only survived there by virtue of very strong allies, and a superior military force of their own. Damn near any other place in the world would be a safer place for them.

They've chosen a place where they can count on the government being on their side rather than being too-little-too-late to stop attacks against them.

 

[iolo]

Your reductionist claim aside, the Palestinians have been living where they do for thousands of years, what possible justification do the Israelites have to claim land that is not theirs?

And a lot of Jews were living there also.

Besides, the reality is that Israel exists. You can't wave a magic wand to get rid of it. Since the Jews quite rightly (there's no place else in the world they can trust to remain a safe haven over time) view Israel as their refuge of last resort they aren't going to give it up without a major fight.

- - - Updated - - -

Haven't been stealing lands? Look how much of the world is Muslim these days. That's all stolen land, Islam advances by the sword.

Don't be sillier than Nature made you! What proportion of the world is 'Christian'?

Christianity spreads mostly by the missionary. Islam spreads almost exclusively via the sword and by reproduction.

As you know, Christianity (in the loosest possible sense - all the codswallopy elements)) was spread by imperialism quite simply. Don't make yourself look drunk, kid!.

 

[KeepTalking]

Seriously? It seems to me that they have chosen (or had chosen for them) absolutely the least safe place in the world as a refuge of any resort. They are surrounded by the people who hate them the most in the world, and have only survived there by virtue of very strong allies, and a superior military force of their own. Damn near any other place in the world would be a safer place for them.

They've chosen a place where they can count on the government being on their side rather than being too-little-too-late to stop attacks against them.

But that government wasn't there when the place was chosen. So, my point stands, nearly any other place in the world they would have chosen to erect that government structure would have been a better place than where they are. This also addresses Sarpedon's point, nearly any other place in the world would have been a better place to fashion that majority and means of self defense.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

They've chosen a place where they can count on the government being on their side rather than being too-little-too-late to stop attacks against them.

But that government wasn't there when the place was chosen. So, my point stands, nearly any other place in the world they would have chosen to erect that government structure would have been a better place than where they are. This also addresses Sarpedon's point, nearly any other place in the world would have been a better place to fashion that majority and means of self defense.

It certainly would be better had Israel been formed somewhere else. However, we don't have time travel.

The reality is that the Jews have a very reasonable fear of persecution everywhere else. They see a Jewish-controlled state to be a place of safety if need be--and all too many are needing it, driven out of countries that on the surface are safe. They are not going to give it up peacefully.

 

[LordKiran]

Your reductionist claim aside, the Palestinians have been living where they do for thousands of years, what possible justification do the Israelites have to claim land that is not theirs?

And a lot of Jews were living there also.

Besides, the reality is that Israel exists. You can't wave a magic wand to get rid of it. Since the Jews quite rightly (there's no place else in the world they can trust to remain a safe haven over time) view Israel as their refuge of last resort they aren't going to give it up without a major fight.

- - - Updated - - -

Haven't been stealing lands? Look how much of the world is Muslim these days. That's all stolen land, Islam advances by the sword.

Don't be sillier than Nature made you! What proportion of the world is 'Christian'?

Christianity spreads mostly by the missionary. Islam spreads almost exclusively via the sword and by reproduction.

The Israeli's aren't doing themselves any favors big picture wise with how they choose (Emphasis on CHOOSE) to handle the Palestinian question. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but it's possible that some day this may all come back to bite them in the ass.

I could tolerate conquest to be entirely honest LP, but attempting to displace them entirely? How do you not see that as unethical? How do you rationalize that? Where are they supposed to go? neighboring countries don't want them. People like you object when they try to go to Europe or the USA. So what are their options if not "Stand and fight?"

 

[KeepTalking]

But that government wasn't there when the place was chosen. So, my point stands, nearly any other place in the world they would have chosen to erect that government structure would have been a better place than where they are. This also addresses Sarpedon's point, nearly any other place in the world would have been a better place to fashion that majority and means of self defense.

It certainly would be better had Israel been formed somewhere else. However, we don't have time travel.

This statement seems to stand in stark contrast to your previous statement that they are in the safest place in the world for them.

The reality is that the Jews have a very reasonable fear of persecution everywhere else.

Maybe they should have tried Antarctica. The penguins likely don't harbor any more ill will toward them than they do toward any other group of humans.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The Israeli's aren't doing themselves any favors big picture wise with how they choose (Emphasis on CHOOSE) to handle the Palestinian question. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but it's possible that some day this may all come back to bite them in the ass.

There's no choice involved. They've long since learned the Palestinians aren't interested in a peace that leaves Israel existing. Thus their strategy is to keep the lid on at a minimum cost.

I could tolerate conquest to be entirely honest LP, but attempting to displace them entirely? How do you not see that as unethical? How do you rationalize that? Where are they supposed to go? neighboring countries don't want them. People like you object when they try to go to Europe or the USA. So what are their options if not "Stand and fight?"

Israel shouldn't have made the settlements. However, the land was conquered, it was theirs to do what they want with. The Palestinians chose the losing side. (Note that at the time of the original war many simply stayed out of it rather than casting their lot with the Arabs. The vast majority of those are now Israeli citizens with full rights.)

 

[iolo]

There's no choice involved. They've long since learned the Palestinians aren't interested in a peace that leaves Israel existing. Thus their strategy is to keep the lid on at a minimum cost.

I could tolerate conquest to be entirely honest LP, but attempting to displace them entirely? How do you not see that as unethical? How do you rationalize that? Where are they supposed to go? neighboring countries don't want them. People like you object when they try to go to Europe or the USA. So what are their options if not "Stand and fight?"

Israel shouldn't have made the settlements. However, the land was conquered, it was theirs to do what they want with. The Palestinians chose the losing side. (Note that at the time of the original war many simply stayed out of it rather than casting their lot with the Arabs. The vast majority of those are now Israeli citizens with full rights.)

It is amazing to find open Nazis strutting about, even in the USA. Have you no concept of decency at all?