Intelligence Privilege

[rousseau]

With all of this talk about privilege lately, let's talk about the most overwhelming type of privilege: intelligence privilege.

Think about it. Not only does every person on the entire planet regularly discriminate based on inherent intelligence, it's actually an encouraged practice. This means that people with no skills and not a lot of ability are naturally going to gravitate toward the low end of society. Lack of ability spans across all races, religions, and genders.

The obvious argument that the concept is stupid is that we're an evolutionary animal and competition is our natural state, on the opposite extreme would be some type of regulatory measures. But I think if we're going to use the concept of privilege, then speaking about intelligence privilege might be useful.

1) What does it mean to have great intelligence?
2) What responsibilities should it entail, if any?
3) Is the idea even reasonable at all?
4) How should we protect the disadvantaged? Does this relate to a welfare state?

And go.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Note, this doesn't necessarily apply in any standard US High School.

Also, for all the benefits that intelligence brings, the stupid do breed like stupid rabbits.

 

[Trausti]

Time to appoint the Handicapper General.

 

[untermensche]

Intelligence is many things. There is social intelligence. Creative intelligence. Intelligence as a thorough knowledge of a particular subject.

But many aspects of what we call intelligence can be improved upon with the practice of proper techniques. Things like memory and the use of proper logical argument.

It has to be looked upon expansively.

It most definitely can't be reduced to a single number. That notion is absurd.

 

[prideandfall]

1) What does it mean to have great intelligence?

well in terms of society it depends on what kind of intelligence we're discussing - there's creative intelligence for example or organizational intelligence, which are less explicit than just "oh hey, that person is smart."
assuming that the thrust here is of the generalized "ability to retain and recollect facts, ability to take in information and stimuli and process it quickly, being able to apply known variables to a new situation in order to improve it" which i think is the most applicable to society in general and careers in particular...

in my experience, it means having the capability to decide your level of ambition and career goals - being able to reasonably access the job market, figure out what kind of thing you want to be doing with your life job wise, and acquiring the education/experience needed to do that.
now, obviously, not everyone who is more intelligent does this (or does so intelligently), but it seems to me that dumb people are generally kind of pigeon holed into jobs that are simple, and sadly that ends up meaning low paying in most circumstances.

2) What responsibilities should it entail, if any?

none, far as i'm concerned.

3) Is the idea even reasonable at all?

definitely - some people are smart and some people are dumb, just as some people are black and some people are white, or some people can adhere to a schedule of getting up early in the morning and some people are insomniacs.

4) How should we protect the disadvantaged? Does this relate to a welfare state?

i think the best way to protect the disadvantaged is stop denigrating tedious labor and pay people well for doing the things the rest of us can't do or don't want to do.

i work in IT - i setup and configure computers for the customer support staff of a large multinational company, as well as troubleshooting and diagnosing problems. i am reasonably good at my job, because i have a knack for computers and i've been doing this work for 20 years and am good at remembering a large number of variables in IT support, making me very efficient at fixing computers.
i hate being on my feet all day, i find slow and repetitive physical behavior tedious and soul-crushing, i have very little interest in or capacity for attention to detail when it comes to things like office cleanliness... i could never, ever do the job of the cleaning crew here at my office - i couldn't do their job any more than they could do mine, i lack the skills necessary to handle that.
and yet, i get paid 30 dollars an hour and i'd be surprised if they're being paid 10 dollars an hour, and i don't understand why that is - what they do is just as difficult, on a personal level, as what i do. it doesn't make any sense to me that what i do is valued so much more.

 

[Under the Rose]

Indeed.

While superficially it would seem logical that intelligence should be an advantage, it can often be exactly the opposite if one is seen to be 'different' from the rest of the 'herd' and make no mistake, humans are herd animals and feel threatened by change and anything that falls outside of the established 'norm'. It is often wise for the intelligent to keep their observations and comprehension unto themselves in some circumstances so as not to draw unwanted attention. (A resident of China as one example)

Intelligence is quite often attenuated with empathy, resulting in a heightened sensitivity of an individual toward the sufferings of others. The experience of this increased sensitivity can be an emotional and physical burden that may overwhelm the individual and lead them to depression or even suicide because of the 'unfairness and futility of it all'.

Intelligence without resources can be rather limited in what responsibilities it is capable of taking on though I note that throughout history, there are examples of individuals who have accomplished great things with very little at the outset.

In summary, I would suggest that intelligence is a double-edged sword and not always an advantage.

 

[Trausti]

i work in IT - i setup and configure computers for the customer support staff of a large multinational company, as well as troubleshooting and diagnosing problems. i am reasonably good at my job, because i have a knack for computers and i've been doing this work for 20 years and am good at remembering a large number of variables in IT support, making me very efficient at fixing computers.
i hate being on my feet all day, i find slow and repetitive physical behavior tedious and soul-crushing, i have very little interest in or capacity for attention to detail when it comes to things like office cleanliness...

i could never, ever do the job of the cleaning crew here at my office - i couldn't do their job any more than they could do mine, i lack the skills necessary to handle that.
and yet, i get paid 30 dollars an hour and i'd be surprised if they're being paid 10 dollars an hour, and i don't understand why that is - what they do is just as difficult, on a personal level, as what i do. it doesn't make any sense to me that what i do is valued so much more.

Look at your question from a different perspective. Could the janitorial staff do your job? You are paid more because you likely have skills and knowledge that the cleaning crew does not. You presumably have more responsibility and stress than they do. If the computers go down, that's your head on the block. Things don't come to a halt if the cleaning crew forgets to empty a trash can.

 

[Keith&Co.]

1) What does it mean to have great intelligence?

If we're talking about an intelligence privilege, then 'greater' intelligence would have to have some ability to benefit society. We would not grant privilege to those geeks who are just very very good at Star Trek Trivia for all six TV series....Dammit. We would expect the privileged intellectuals to display the ability to shape society's decisions, either by providing solutions to problems or by deconstruction of stupid solutions offered to solve problems. Unfortunately, only The Intelligent would be able to discern if a candidate for intelligence privilege was offering a good solution or just fast-talking bullshit. Meaning most of society would be sitting there, waiting for someone to explain the solution to them in ways they can understand.

2) What responsibilities should it entail, if any?

According to CM Kornbluth, the greatly intelligent will become enslaved by the greater society to keep things running and keep the mob entertained. If they don't, the wars of the stupid people will destroy the planet and lead to heaping piles of rather smelly bodies, and plague rats.

3) Is the idea even reasonable at all?

I doubt that we can convince society to choose leaders or make our leaders choose advisors that are selected for intellectual merit. That would require most of society become intelligent enough to realize they don't know nearly as much as they think they do on topics such as economics, diplomacy, civil rights, resource management.... What happens when you flip the light switch, stuff like that.

4) How should we protect the disadvantaged? Does this relate to a welfare state?

We don't have to protect them, we'll have to placate them, or they'll blame any problem and inconvenience on us, riot and pull us from our cars to beat us in the ditch.

 

[Under the Rose]

i work in IT - i setup and configure computers for the customer support staff of a large multinational company, as well as troubleshooting and diagnosing problems. i am reasonably good at my job, because i have a knack for computers and i've been doing this work for 20 years and am good at remembering a large number of variables in IT support, making me very efficient at fixing computers.
i hate being on my feet all day, i find slow and repetitive physical behavior tedious and soul-crushing, i have very little interest in or capacity for attention to detail when it comes to things like office cleanliness...
i could never, ever do the job of the cleaning crew here at my office - i couldn't do their job any more than they could do mine, i lack the skills necessary to handle that.
and yet, i get paid 30 dollars an hour and i'd be surprised if they're being paid 10 dollars an hour, and i don't understand why that is - what they do is just as difficult, on a personal level, as what i do. it doesn't make any sense to me that what i do is valued so much more.

Look at your question from a different perspective. Could the janitorial staff do your job? You are paid more because you likely have skills and knowledge that the cleaning crew does not. You presumably have more responsibility and stress than they do. If the computers go down, that's your head on the block. Things don't come to a halt if the cleaning crew forgets to empty a trash can.

Yet prideandfall is trying to make the point that his intelligence at IT does not make him superior in other areas and even though he could physically do the work, his brain would figuratively hemorrhage, his attention would lapse, we could well have a hygiene failure that could become widespread. (Food safety inspections being done from remote viewing stations comes to mind as budget cuts result in fewer inspectors.)

A great many of the most important jobs in society relate to simple infrastructure maintenance and supply chain, yet our society disparages such simple labor and does not want to recompense at a fair level, even for those tedious or dangerous tasks that they are unwilling to undertake themselves.

 

[prideandfall]

Look at your question from a different perspective. Could the janitorial staff do your job?

no, they couldn't - and i couldn't do their job either, so i don't see what difference it makes.

You are paid more because you likely have skills and knowledge that the cleaning crew does not.

sure, absolutely - and they have skills and knowledge that i don't have, so again i don't see the difference.

You presumably have more responsibility and stress than they do.

ha! good god no.
i spend 7 hours a day watching netflix, with an hour a day also watching netflix while incidentally reaching over and clicking 'yes' or 'next' to some patch running on a laptop.

If the computers go down, that's your head on the block.

it really isn't, that's so not how IT support works. also, 'the computers going down' is functionally impossible to ever have happen.

Things don't come to a halt if the cleaning crew forgets to empty a trash can.

things also don't come to a halt if someone's H key is a little bit sticky - which is far more analogies to 'forgets to empty a trash can'.
'if the computers go down' is more akin to 'if no cleaning is done on any part of the building for a month' - the job they do is far more vital to the day-to-day functioning of a corporate office than what i do.

 

[prideandfall]

A great many of the most important jobs in society relate to simple infrastructure maintenance and supply chain, yet our society disparages such simple labor and does not want to recompense at a fair level, even for those tedious or dangerous tasks that they are unwilling to undertake themselves.

^^

it utterly blows my mind that garbage collectors and sanitation workers are not in the top highest paid income levels, given that they probably contribute more to our health and safety and well being as a society than any other job in existence.
a garbage man saves more lives per year than a trauma surgeon, and yet look at the social perception differences between the two jobs.

 

[maxparrish]

Some folks are missing the more important implications of intelligence discrimination; its unfair and unjust. Like any unfair discrimination it is based on unearned attributes, among them: race, gender, looks, height, athletic ability, ethnicity, national origin, family connections, intelligence, social talents, and creative abilities.

Hence it is only just that we have an affirmative action program for the stupid and unsociable, perhaps we need quotas for our universities and workplaces. We should measure the rate of promotion for 'unequal' representation, differing pay scales, etc.

It's time to ban intelligence discrimination, in all its sinister forms.

 

[prideandfall]

It's time to ban intelligence discrimination, in all its sinister forms.

i agree, it's ridiculous!

i mean sure, smart people were systematically enslaved and brutally oppressed for hundreds of years and forced into a breeding program which basically funneled them into being obsolete farm equipment, and sure after a couple of hundred years the various countries finally got around more or less mostly writing legal discrimination against them out of their law books, but it's been almost 50 years since institutionalized oppression of smart people was legal mandate! just because smart people are incarcerated for the same (or often less) crime as dumb people at nearly 30 times the rate, doesn't mean it's not time to pull yourselves up by your boot-straps, smarties!

 

[EricK]

it utterly blows my mind that garbage collectors and sanitation workers are not in the top highest paid income levels, given that they probably contribute more to our health and safety and well being as a society than any other job in existence.
a garbage man saves more lives per year than a trauma surgeon, and yet look at the social perception differences between the two jobs.

Are you absolutely sure about that last statistic? Maybe garbage men, overall, save more lives than surgeons, overall, but I'm not sure an individual garbageman saves as many lives as an individual surgeon. And in terms of how much we pay each, I wouldn't be surprised if the total amount we pay to garbage men is higher than the total amount we pay to surgeons.

 

[Metaphor]

A great many of the most important jobs in society relate to simple infrastructure maintenance and supply chain, yet our society disparages such simple labor and does not want to recompense at a fair level, even for those tedious or dangerous tasks that they are unwilling to undertake themselves.

^^

it utterly blows my mind that garbage collectors and sanitation workers are not in the top highest paid income levels, given that they probably contribute more to our health and safety and well being as a society than any other job in existence.
a garbage man saves more lives per year than a trauma surgeon, and yet look at the social perception differences between the two jobs.

It is a lot harder to be a surgeon than a garbage collector. Given a choice, I'd rather a surgeon collect my garbage than my garbage collector to operate on me!

 

[prideandfall]

Are you absolutely sure about that last statistic?

yes, and the disparity only becomes exponentially higher as populations increase.

Maybe garbage men, overall, save more lives than surgeons, overall, but I'm not sure an individual garbageman saves as many lives as an individual surgeon.

i'm pretty sure they do, it's just not as easy to see it in stark contrast.

And in terms of how much we pay each, I wouldn't be surprised if the total amount we pay to garbage men is higher than the total amount we pay to surgeons.

http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/garbage-collector
According to the BLS, garbage collectors earned $35,230 in 2012. The highest-paid 10 percent of garbage collectors made $57,760, and the lowest-paid made $18,770. The highest-paying metropolitan areas for these workers are Merced, Calif., New York City and Santa Cruz, Calif.
per that same website there are approximately 21,000 (and some change) garbage collectors in the US.

from the same website:
http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/physician
In 2012, a general internist made an average salary of $191,520, according to the BLS. Those with subspecialties, such as gastroenterologists, cardiologists and urologists, had average salaries that eclipsed $187,199 in 2012. Areas of the country that pay physicians particularly well include Wilmington, N.C., Wichita, Kan., and Tallahassee, Fla. The lowest-paid in the profession make about $66,790.
per that website the number of physicians in the US is about 123,300

so... yeah. not even remotely close to your theories.

- - - Updated - - -

It is a lot harder to be a surgeon than a garbage collector.

oh? you think so?
then why is the garbage collector unemployment rate 9.8% and the physician unemployment rate 0.8%?

Given a choice, I'd rather a surgeon collect my garbage than my garbage collector to operate on me!

and given a choice i'd rather a garbage collector perform surgery on me than a sub-saharan african warlord... what's your point?

 

[EricK]

^^

it utterly blows my mind that garbage collectors and sanitation workers are not in the top highest paid income levels, given that they probably contribute more to our health and safety and well being as a society than any other job in existence.
a garbage man saves more lives per year than a trauma surgeon, and yet look at the social perception differences between the two jobs.

It is a lot harder to be a surgeon than a garbage collector. Given a choice, I'd rather a surgeon collect my garbage than my garbage collector to operate on me!

That reminds me of this comic strip: http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1989-12-05/

 

[EricK]

per that same website there are approximately 21,000 (and some change) garbage collectors in the US.

It says the number will increase by 16%, or 21,600. Which implies the actual number is approximately 135,000

Also,
http://www.physiciansweekly.com/general-surgeons-shortage/
says there are currently 18,000 general surgeons in US

So my theories (at least the one about pay) are looking quite good.

 

[untermensche]

It's simply not true that intelligence is something you are born with like skin color or gender.

You are born with a potential, but circumstance will dictate how much of that potential is realized.

If you are born to poor uneducated parents then you will not be exposed to many of the same things you would be exposed to if your parents were physicists or lawyers. Your growing intelligence will be deprived.

So when we look at a person, the expression of their intelligence is a combination of innate attributes and the pure luck of circumstance. Some are lucky to have circumstances that bring out more of their potential than others.

 

[maxparrish]

It's time to ban intelligence discrimination, in all its sinister forms.

i agree, it's ridiculous!

i mean sure, smart people were systematically enslaved and brutally oppressed for hundreds of years and forced into a breeding program which basically funneled them into being obsolete farm equipment, and sure after a couple of hundred years the various countries finally got around more or less mostly writing legal discrimination against them out of their law books, but it's been almost 50 years since institutionalized oppression of smart people was legal mandate! just because smart people are incarcerated for the same (or often less) crime as dumb people at nearly 30 times the rate, doesn't mean it's not time to pull yourselves up by your boot-straps, smarties!

Nonsense. Stupid people are systematically oppressed, especially so in market based economies. Stupid people discrimination starts in elementary and high schools with lower grades (cite: see the "equal grades for equal effort" social justice project). They are under-represented at the nation's colleges and universities, especially so in graduate programs. The lower half of the bell curve are not proportionally represented in businesses and corporations, many hitting the intelligence glass ceiling. While they may be well represented the the party leadership of Washington DC, how many Fortune 500 CEO's have an IQ of 89 or lower? Very few I suspect.

It's clear stupid people are "disadvantaged" and it need of the benefits of affirmative action (to redress current and prior discrimination) and to obtain "social justice" in new government programs for serious redistribution.