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Investigating Trump's crimes and his underlings' crimes

lpetrich

lpetrich

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Joe Biden seems to be saying that we must let them off the hook. Sort of like Gerald Ford pardoning his disgraced former boss Richard Nixon. Also Barack Obama refusing to prosecute members of the George Bush II administration.

However,
Kyle Griffin on Twitter: "Rep. Bill Pascrell Jr. is demanding the president and his aides be investigated and prosecuted after leaving office.

Pascrell says a failure to do so would embolden "criminality by our national leaders" and continue "America down the path of lawlessness." https://t.co/tCDY9YJDiE" / Twitter
noting
N.J. congressman says Trump should be tried for ‘crimes against our nation and Constitution’ - nj.com
noting
Bill Pascrell, Jr. on Twitter: "Tonight I’m calling for the eventual prosecution of donald trump and his enablers for their many crimes against the United States. https://t.co/LJGvzLqQ35" / Twitter
with inlined image file
PASCRELL DEMANDS INVESTIGATION, PROSECUTION OF TRUMP GOVERNMENT CRIMES

Unprecedented litany of misdeeds must not be swept under the rug

WASHINGTON, DC - U.S. Rep. Bill Pascreli, Jr. (D-NJ-09) today called for the widespread investigation and prosecution of members of the outgoing Trump administration.

"Donald Trump and members of his administration have committed innumerable crimes against the United States," said Rep. Pascrell "He has endangered our national security. He ripped families apart. He poisoned the Census. He has personally profited from his office. He has attacked our elections and sought to throttle democracy. He was rightly impeached by e House of Representatives. He has engaged in treachery, in treason. He has all but given up on governing and protecting our nation and if he had a shred of dignity he'd resign today.

"Therefore, in 2021 the entire Trump administration must be fully investigated by the Department of Justice and any other relevant offices. Donald Trump along with his worst enablers must be tried for their crimes against our nation and Constitution. Importantly, any further abuse of the sacred pardon power to shield criminals would itself be obstruction of justice, and any self-pardons would be
illegal.

"Failure to hold financial and political wrongdoing accountable in the past has invited greater malfeasance by bad actors. repeat of our national leaders those failures in 2021 further emboldens criminality by and continues America down the path of lawlessness and authoritarianism. There must be accountability."
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I was angry at first when I heard what Biden said because it sounded too much like Ford pardoning Nixon for my comfort, which I believe strongly was one of the biggest disservices a president could do to our country and helped to make subsequent abuses of power easier to get away with, setting a precedent and sending a message to Americans and to the rest of the world (and to future presidents) that the US doesn't hold power accountable. The less power you have in our country, the more severely you will be punished for crimes. But the more powerful you are, the more abuse and crime you can get away with. I believe very strongly that prosecuting Nixon to the fullest extent of the law would have made him a powerful example and a warning to potential future abusers of power. Maybe Nixon, as an individual person, deserved a pardon, but Nixon the president did not and the reasons for that are massively more important than Nixon's feelings or comfort, or even that of his family.

But thinking about it, Biden's comment was not such a bad thing. For one thing, he can't tell the Justice Dept not to prosecute, and even if he chose to pardon federal crimes (I doubt he would), it wouldn't apply to state criminal charges.

So it's more like "unity PR" he's doing, which might soften a few trumpy dipshit Biden haters, plus bonus image of the kind, forgiving president juxtaposed over the unkind, cruel, petty snowflake president.

Ari Melber has a similar view: Ex-Pres. Trump On Trial? Why It’s Not Biden's Call
 
Mueller already put it down on paper... this is a Congressional matter, not a court matter. And the Senate voted to sweep it under the rug. Granted, there could be a bunch of things that could be targeted, but so many of these things will be hard to press in court. Such as the Trump Admin fucking up and making hundreds of children needless orphans. That is awful, but is it actually a crime? Which then leaps us to just how vulnerable our democracy is to malfeasance, and how much of our democracy depends on the people in power respecting that power.

And as a reminder, Trump does have issues with numerous state courts awaiting him.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Mueller already put it down on paper... this is a Congressional matter, not a court matter. And the Senate voted to sweep it under the rug. Granted, there could be a bunch of things that could be targeted, but so many of these things will be hard to press in court. Such as the Trump Admin fucking up and making hundreds of children needless orphans. That is awful, but is it actually a crime? Which then leaps us to just how vulnerable our democracy is to malfeasance, and how much of our democracy depends on the people in power respecting that power.

And as a reminder, Trump does have issues with numerous state courts awaiting him.
Click to expand...

Didn't Mueller leave a one or two sealed indictments behind him, widely regarded as relating to Trump?
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Mueller already put it down on paper... this is a Congressional matter, not a court matter.
Click to expand...
It is a congressional matter while he is a sitting president. Mueller was of the opinion you can't indict a sitting president, but once he is out of office that is a different matter. There were a few sealed indictments that Mueller filed which might include Trump just waiting until he is out.
 
Angry Floof said:
I was angry at first when I heard what Biden said because it sounded too much like Ford pardoning Nixon for my comfort, which I believe strongly was one of the biggest disservices a president could do to our country and helped to make subsequent abuses of power easier to get away with, setting a precedent and sending a message to Americans and to the rest of the world (and to future presidents) that the US doesn't hold power accountable. The less power you have in our country, the more severely you will be punished for crimes. But the more powerful you are, the more abuse and crime you can get away with. I believe very strongly that prosecuting Nixon to the fullest extent of the law would have made him a powerful example and a warning to potential future abusers of power. Maybe Nixon, as an individual person, deserved a pardon, but Nixon the president did not and the reasons for that are massively more important than Nixon's feelings or comfort, or even that of his family.

But thinking about it, Biden's comment was not such a bad thing. For one thing, he can't tell the Justice Dept not to prosecute, and even if he chose to pardon federal crimes (I doubt he would), it wouldn't apply to state criminal charges.

So it's more like "unity PR" he's doing, which might soften a few trumpy dipshit Biden haters, plus bonus image of the kind, forgiving president juxtaposed over the unkind, cruel, petty snowflake president.

Ari Melber has a similar view: Ex-Pres. Trump On Trial? Why It’s Not Biden's Call
Click to expand...

Yeah, it will be delicious if Biden gets to declare that it's "out of his control" and just shrugs while Trump gets pilloried (Hillaried?).
 
jab said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Mueller already put it down on paper... this is a Congressional matter, not a court matter. And the Senate voted to sweep it under the rug. Granted, there could be a bunch of things that could be targeted, but so many of these things will be hard to press in court. Such as the Trump Admin fucking up and making hundreds of children needless orphans. That is awful, but is it actually a crime? Which then leaps us to just how vulnerable our democracy is to malfeasance, and how much of our democracy depends on the people in power respecting that power.

And as a reminder, Trump does have issues with numerous state courts awaiting him.
Click to expand...

Didn't Mueller leave a one or two sealed indictments behind him, widely regarded as relating to Trump?
Click to expand...

Ten charges of obstruction of justice, perjury in Trump's written statement to the investigation, and election tampering in the Stormy Daniels affair.

And to Jimmy, I believe Mueller's statement about this being a congressional matter applies only to Trump being president at the time of his statement and that the Justice Departments hands were tied.
 
marc said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Mueller already put it down on paper... this is a Congressional matter, not a court matter.
Click to expand...
It is a congressional matter while he is a sitting president. Mueller was of the opinion you can't indict a sitting president, but once he is out of office that is a different matter.
Click to expand...
I don't think it is an issue of whether you can indict, I think it is more an issue of the President can stonewall evidence, making a trial virtually impossible (see impeachment and special prosecution).
There were a few sealed indictments that Mueller filed which might include Trump just waiting until he is out.
Click to expand...
That'd be great!
 
ZiprHead said:
Keith&Co. said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
I don't think it is an issue of whether you can indict,
Click to expand...

Mueller specifically said that DoJ policy is not to indict a sitting President, so they did not even consider doing so.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think that's something that's gotta change.
Click to expand...

I disagree.
We have a method in place. It's called impeachment. Congress getting results of DoJ investigations, yes absolutely. But not the DoJ itself. There's just too much possibility of abuse.
Tom
 
TomC said:
We have a method in place. It's called impeachment.
Tom
Click to expand...

Obviously, that is a broken mechanism. It may have worked if the DOJ wasn't headed by a toady.
I wonder what the effect would be if AGs were selected by the minority party in all cases... subject to approval by congressional majority, and removal by a 2/3 congressional vote.
One thing they should NOT be, is selected by the chief executive or his//her minions.
 
Keith&Co. said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
I don't think it is an issue of whether you can indict,
Click to expand...

Mueller specifically said that DoJ policy is not to indict a sitting President, so they did not even consider doing so.
Click to expand...
Again, logistics, it isn't as much as not being allowed to indict a sitting President... the logistics make it impossible. Which is why Mueller provided a report to impeach Trump on. Impeachment gets around the issues involved with trying to indict a President. Congress is capable of cutting through the BS much quicker.
 
Heard today that the NY AG has 67 indictments waiting for Jan 21. Can't wait for that list to be released!

With a huge list of indictments hitting the news that day, I think it will be rather hard for Biden to justify any kind of pardon on the federal level. Also, I wonder what the intelligence community will tell Biden about crimes committed, ones that didn't make the news. Hope that once he sees the full extend of the damage done all this talk of pardons will disappear
 
Congress is capable of cutting through the BS much quicker.
Click to expand...
Clearly not.
The House of Representatives did impeach.
Trump's buddies in the Senate ignored the evidence and impeachment.

So our criminal president knew he was above the law.
Tom
 
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