Irony is not dead - it just shot its instructor

[laughing dog]

The fact that conceal and carry means these people are going to walk around with firearms that are capable of going off by accident and killing bystanders is something Rhea (and others with functioning minds) think is unwise and risky.

The meaning of the word accident must be lost on you...

More people who walking around with loaded firearms increases the risk to everyone else of being shot by accident. More people walking around with a loaded weapon and who don't know how to handle it properly increases the risk to everyone else of being shot by accident. Maybe if you concentrated more on thinking about the actual content of a post and less about coming up with "clever" ad homs, you might avoid making an ass out of yourself.

 

[Jarhyn]

That would all of the people with a concealed carry permit going to a club, no? Remember all the folks who said, "if there were more guns in that dance club, this wouldn'a happened!"

But more to the point, anyone who is walking around with a gun doing something OTHER than shooting targets or animals (such as someone shopping for underpants in a target with a gun on their hip) is really doing nothing different than waltzing around with a gun. They are shopping around with a gun, playing with their kids with a gun, driving with a gun, fishing with a gun. What's the difference, really, if it's on a three-count or a four?

Like the the rest of your skid mark of a post, this is completely unrelated to the topic, which wasn't about people shooting up shopping malls - accidentally or otherwise - but about folks at a gun safety class where an accident happened.
And if you wanted to talk about something else, like the safety off carrying guns around through general public areas, then you should have picked a different news story

A concealed carry class is exactly about people walking around shopping with guns. It's people wanting to get better at shopping with guns. People like the teacher who shot herself in the bathroom when her gun, or the teacher who fired a gun in the hallway showing someone his gun, or the mom shot in the back on teh highways while conceal carrying her gun, or the thousands of toddlers who shoot people with their conceal carry guns.

Yes, the topic is exactly about what conceal carry people do with their classroom learning. That evehn right there supervised in the classroom they can't keep themselves from killing someone.

instead of throwing a tantrum when people show up to discuss the topic you started.

LOL, darlin' this ain't a tantrum. I'm just having a discussion. You upset by my cuss words or something?

Like I said. The topic you want to discuss is not the topic you posted in the OP. All you need to do is be honest about that instead of berating people who show up to actually discuss the topic (I notice there are only a couple of us) and then engaging in some lame ass pea palming trying to relate everything about guns to the OP.

Anyway, there're hundreds of other threads to discuss what you're trying to discuss, so another one really is a waste of time. A discussion about the dangers of gun safety classes themselves, though, would have been interesting. Talk about your irony.

Ah, so now you are trying to say that the poster of the OP didn't know what their intent of discussion was when posting the OP. This thread is about the insanity of our current gun culture, one that treats them like toys and has classes so ineffective at ensuring even *basic* weapon safety and respect that its own instructor got shot. And this is the same class after which people are allowed to walk around in PUBLIC with these things, without their fellow people even having the right to know.

Would you, for instance, accept a world where it was socially accepted by a segment of the population to strap concealed explosives to their chests, with an ignition button in their hand? They aren't likely to go off accidentally, they just like the adrenaline rush of thinking about having a bomb strapped to them. The explosive radius is only a meter, so they are only likely to hurt themselves if the safety fails and the button gets bumped.

People with guns ARE people.strapped with an explosive, and any time they wish, they can whip it out, and shoot people. All that it takes is the right kind of pressure or event in their life. And then they are fully authorized to take that gun with them to a public place, free of any legal repercussions of any kind, unstoppable by any police officer. It brings the illegal act past any barriers which could prevent it. No, it isn't where they lift their arms up, and someone spots the gun, or sees them walking funny, or holding their gun through their shirt, the first time anyone has a chance to say anything to warn others or to confront them is when they are pulling it out to shoot people. At least in the suicide vest scenario, their own lives would be forfeit if they pushed the button or if it went off accidentally.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't think the situation in question could be done with blanks. However I think they could use paint rounds--they sting but can only inflict serious injury if they hit an eye.

You don't think a gun-jamming exercise could be done with blanks?

A blank isn't the same shape as a regular round.

 

[Bronzeage]

You don't think a gun-jamming exercise could be done with blanks?

A blank isn't the same shape as a regular round.

A chamber clearing exercise is best performed with a dud round. If a shell doesn't fire, it doesn't eject. This is different from a jam, which is when the shell either doesn't load completely, or doesn't eject completely.

 

[Rhea]

You don't think a gun-jamming exercise could be done with blanks?

A blank isn't the same shape as a regular round.

fair enough. Paint round, then.

 

[JonA]

That would all of the people with a concealed carry permit going to a club, no? Remember all the folks who said, "if there were more guns in that dance club, this wouldn'a happened!"

But more to the point, anyone who is walking around with a gun doing something OTHER than shooting targets or animals (such as someone shopping for underpants in a target with a gun on their hip) is really doing nothing different than waltzing around with a gun. They are shopping around with a gun, playing with their kids with a gun, driving with a gun, fishing with a gun. What's the difference, really, if it's on a three-count or a four?

Like the the rest of your skid mark of a post, this is completely unrelated to the topic, which wasn't about people shooting up shopping malls - accidentally or otherwise - but about folks at a gun safety class where an accident happened.
And if you wanted to talk about something else, like the safety off carrying guns around through general public areas, then you should have picked a different news story

A concealed carry class is exactly about people walking around shopping with guns. It's people wanting to get better at shopping with guns. People like the teacher who shot herself in the bathroom when her gun, or the teacher who fired a gun in the hallway showing someone his gun, or the mom shot in the back on teh highways while conceal carrying her gun, or the thousands of toddlers who shoot people with their conceal carry guns.

Yes, the topic is exactly about what conceal carry people do with their classroom learning. That evehn right there supervised in the classroom they can't keep themselves from killing someone.

instead of throwing a tantrum when people show up to discuss the topic you started.

LOL, darlin' this ain't a tantrum. I'm just having a discussion. You upset by my cuss words or something?

Like I said. The topic you want to discuss is not the topic you posted in the OP. All you need to do is be honest about that instead of berating people who show up to actually discuss the topic (I notice there are only a couple of us) and then engaging in some lame ass pea palming trying to relate everything about guns to the OP.

Anyway, there're hundreds of other threads to discuss what you're trying to discuss, so another one really is a waste of time. A discussion about the dangers of gun safety classes themselves, though, would have been interesting. Talk about your irony.

Ah, so now you are trying to say that the poster of the OP didn't know what their intent of discussion was when posting the OP.

I'm saying that the news story from the OP - that a reasonable person would assume was posted to set the discussion topic - is not the topic the OPer apparently wants to discuss.

And that the confusion ensuing from this lapse in precision has been behind most of the disagreement.

Also that that topic is of no interest to me - - and so I am fine not participating... if only folks would stop trying to drag me back into conversations I don't want to have.

 

[laughing dog]

I'm saying that the news story from the OP - that a reasonable person would assume was posted to set the discussion topic - is not the topic the OPer apparently wants to discuss.

You are mistaken.

And that the confusion ensuing from this lapse in precision has been behind most of the disagreement.

Also that that topic is of no interest to me - - and so I am fine not participating... if only folks would stop trying to drag me back into conversations I don't want to have.

No one forces anyone to participate. Certainly no one wants the kneejerk, illogical and silly responses that seem to be your metier.

 

[Bronzeage]

A blank isn't the same shape as a regular round.

fair enough. Paint round, then.

Just a technical note: A blank cartridge or a paint cartridge can both be lethal if fired at close range. In 1984, an actor named Jon-Erik Hexum was on a TV production set, when decided to play mock Russian roulette with a 357 Magnum pistol, which was loaded with blank cartridges. He held the gun to his and pulled the trigger. The wadding which took the place of a bullet, penetrated his skull and killed him.

 

[Rhea]

fair enough. Paint round, then.

Just a technical note: A blank cartridge or a paint cartridge can both be lethal if fired at close range. In 1984, an actor named Jon-Erik Hexum was on a TV production set, when decided to play mock Russian roulette with a 357 Magnum pistol, which was loaded with blank cartridges. He held the gun to his and pulled the trigger. The wadding which took the place of a bullet, penetrated his skull and killed him.

Yikes, yeah nothing at the head!

But at least they won't go through a wall.

 

[Jarhyn]

That would all of the people with a concealed carry permit going to a club, no? Remember all the folks who said, "if there were more guns in that dance club, this wouldn'a happened!"

But more to the point, anyone who is walking around with a gun doing something OTHER than shooting targets or animals (such as someone shopping for underpants in a target with a gun on their hip) is really doing nothing different than waltzing around with a gun. They are shopping around with a gun, playing with their kids with a gun, driving with a gun, fishing with a gun. What's the difference, really, if it's on a three-count or a four?

Like the the rest of your skid mark of a post, this is completely unrelated to the topic, which wasn't about people shooting up shopping malls - accidentally or otherwise - but about folks at a gun safety class where an accident happened.
And if you wanted to talk about something else, like the safety off carrying guns around through general public areas, then you should have picked a different news story

A concealed carry class is exactly about people walking around shopping with guns. It's people wanting to get better at shopping with guns. People like the teacher who shot herself in the bathroom when her gun, or the teacher who fired a gun in the hallway showing someone his gun, or the mom shot in the back on teh highways while conceal carrying her gun, or the thousands of toddlers who shoot people with their conceal carry guns.

Yes, the topic is exactly about what conceal carry people do with their classroom learning. That evehn right there supervised in the classroom they can't keep themselves from killing someone.

instead of throwing a tantrum when people show up to discuss the topic you started.

LOL, darlin' this ain't a tantrum. I'm just having a discussion. You upset by my cuss words or something?

Like I said. The topic you want to discuss is not the topic you posted in the OP. All you need to do is be honest about that instead of berating people who show up to actually discuss the topic (I notice there are only a couple of us) and then engaging in some lame ass pea palming trying to relate everything about guns to the OP.

Anyway, there're hundreds of other threads to discuss what you're trying to discuss, so another one really is a waste of time. A discussion about the dangers of gun safety classes themselves, though, would have been interesting. Talk about your irony.

Ah, so now you are trying to say that the poster of the OP didn't know what their intent of discussion was when posting the OP.

I'm saying that the news story from the OP - that a reasonable person would assume was posted to set the discussion topic - is not the topic the OPer apparently wants to discuss.

And that the confusion ensuing from this lapse in precision has been behind most of the disagreement.

Also that that topic is of no interest to me - - and so I am fine not participating... if only folks would stop trying to drag me back into conversations I don't want to have.

The mistake is yours. Everyone else here seems to recognize it as an ice breaker into a discussion about the inappropriateness of conceal carry in a world where the instructor of a conceal carry course got shot by one of his own students, and the lack of responsibility and respect that belies in the deeply flawed humans who eek to be unreasonably armed in the context of every day life.

 

[Rhea]

I'm saying that the news story from the OP - that a reasonable person would assume was posted to set the discussion topic - is not the topic the OPer apparently wants to discuss.

And that the confusion ensuing from this lapse in precision has been behind most of the disagreement.

The mistake is yours. Everyone else here seems to recognize it as an ice breaker into a discussion about the inappropriateness of conceal carry in a world where the instructor of a conceal carry course got shot by one of his own students, and the lack of responsibility and respect that belies in the deeply flawed humans who eek to be unreasonably armed in the context of every day life.

Exactly, Jarhyn. Exactly so.

JonA - when one starts to consider oneself the ONLY reasonable person in a room - one can often take that as a reliable sign that it is time to take a step back and consider a greater world outside oneself.

The explicit keyword in this situation is the idea of _irony_ which typically indicates that the OP is thinking on several levels and invites you to observe them also. I didn't even make it hard for you by being coy. I came right out and said in the title that it was a discussion coming from a place of layered meaning.

And I haven't berated or tantrumed or anything, either. It's been an interesting discussion on several layers with the odd interruption that elicits an, "eh? wot's he on about?" about you.

So - I'm happy to spell it out for those low in irony. I was thinking, no shit; here (again!) are the people who try to claim the world is safer when everyone is CCing, and they can't even get out of the training room without killing anyone. And a nickel says they're still going to argue tomorrow that CCing is the safest thing in the world. And yeah, most everyone else seems to have either read the word "irony" and picked up on that, or saw the irony independently and had already thought the same thing.

Also that that topic is of no interest to me - - and so I am fine not participating... if only folks would stop trying to drag me back into conversations I don't want to have.

LOL. Irony frosting on the irony cupcake! I picture the dead horse now with a little cartoonist's tag that says "JonA" on it and us all dragging it against its will back into the room.

 

[KeepTalking]

fair enough. Paint round, then.

Just a technical note: A blank cartridge or a paint cartridge can both be lethal if fired at close range. In 1984, an actor named Jon-Erik Hexum was on a TV production set, when decided to play mock Russian roulette with a 357 Magnum pistol, which was loaded with blank cartridges. He held the gun to his and pulled the trigger. The wadding which took the place of a bullet, penetrated his skull and killed him.

And he was not the only actor to die in that manner. Brandon Lee died in similar circumstances while filming The Crow.

 

[Bronzeage]

Just a technical note: A blank cartridge or a paint cartridge can both be lethal if fired at close range. In 1984, an actor named Jon-Erik Hexum was on a TV production set, when decided to play mock Russian roulette with a 357 Magnum pistol, which was loaded with blank cartridges. He held the gun to his and pulled the trigger. The wadding which took the place of a bullet, penetrated his skull and killed him.

And he was not the only actor to die in that manner. Brandon Lee died in similar circumstances while filming The Crow.

Lee died because of the incompetence of an unqualified prop manager. Someone tried to convert a regular round into a blank by tampering with it. It was probably intended to be used just to record the sound. When the pistol was fired, a fragment of the bullet was still in the shell. This fragment lodge in the barrel. Later, an actual blank was loaded for a scene where the pistol would be fired at Lee. The blank charge blew the fragment out of the barrel and struck Lee.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

A blank isn't the same shape as a regular round.

A chamber clearing exercise is best performed with a dud round. If a shell doesn't fire, it doesn't eject. This is different from a jam, which is when the shell either doesn't load completely, or doesn't eject completely.

Good point. A cartridge shape would be fine for the purpose.

- - - Updated - - -

A blank isn't the same shape as a regular round.

fair enough. Paint round, then.

There's another suggestion upthread that I like better--a cartridge-shaped dummy round. Just like the air force routinely exercises with pieces of concrete in place of bombs.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Just a technical note: A blank cartridge or a paint cartridge can both be lethal if fired at close range. In 1984, an actor named Jon-Erik Hexum was on a TV production set, when decided to play mock Russian roulette with a 357 Magnum pistol, which was loaded with blank cartridges. He held the gun to his and pulled the trigger. The wadding which took the place of a bullet, penetrated his skull and killed him.

And he was not the only actor to die in that manner. Brandon Lee died in similar circumstances while filming The Crow.

No. Brandon Lee died from a real bullet.

Yes, it was a "blank" round that was fired but in previous close-up shots they had been using (but not firing) real bullets. They didn't have a proper firearms guy on set to see that everything was safe--and in doing the close-ups they managed to dislodge a bullet from one of the rounds and leave it in the barrel. Fire a blank behind a bullet stuck in the barrel and it's pretty close to what a live round would do.

 

[KeepTalking]

And he was not the only actor to die in that manner. Brandon Lee died in similar circumstances while filming The Crow.

Lee died because of the incompetence of an unqualified prop manager. Someone tried to convert a regular round into a blank by tampering with it. It was probably intended to be used just to record the sound. When the pistol was fired, a fragment of the bullet was still in the shell. This fragment lodge in the barrel. Later, an actual blank was loaded for a scene where the pistol would be fired at Lee. The blank charge blew the fragment out of the barrel and struck Lee.

Ah, I did not know the full details, and only heard that he was killed by blank from a .44 Magnum.

 

[TSwizzle]

No. Brandon Lee died from a real bullet.

Yes, it was a "blank" round that was fired but in previous close-up shots they had been using (but not firing) real bullets. They didn't have a proper firearms guy on set to see that everything was safe--and in doing the close-ups they managed to dislodge a bullet from one of the rounds and leave it in the barrel. Fire a blank behind a bullet stuck in the barrel and it's pretty close to what a live round would do.

They had real bullets on a film shoot ?! Wow. I am really surprised at that.

 

[Bronzeage]

No. Brandon Lee died from a real bullet.

Yes, it was a "blank" round that was fired but in previous close-up shots they had been using (but not firing) real bullets. They didn't have a proper firearms guy on set to see that everything was safe--and in doing the close-ups they managed to dislodge a bullet from one of the rounds and leave it in the barrel. Fire a blank behind a bullet stuck in the barrel and it's pretty close to what a live round would do.

They had real bullets on a film shoot ?! Wow. I am really surprised at that.

That was the first question asked.

One of the reasons the motion picture labor unions have so much power is because they supply the technical skills which prevent things like this from happening.

 

[fromderinside]

They had real bullets on a film shoot ?! Wow. I am really surprised at that.

That was the first question asked.

One of the reasons the motion picture labor unions have so much power is because they supply the technical skills which prevent things like this from happening.

We don't need no damn bullets.

Jon-Erik Hexum, charismatic and arrogant actor dies on set. I should also mention he was a damn fool. Put pistol to his temple and fired. Brain jelly from concussion. So there you go. Bonus bit: Eli Wallach never used the line:

"Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinkin' badges!"

in a film.

going for that old memory violin ......

 

[KeepTalking]

Jon-Erik Hexum, charismatic and arrogant actor dies on set. I should also mention he was a damn fool. Put pistol to his temple and fired. Brain jelly from concussion. So there you go. Bonus bit: Eli Wallach never used the line:

"Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinkin' badges!"

in a film.

Who said he did? That line was spoken by Alfonso Bedoya in The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, a film in which Eli Wallach did not appear.