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Is Communism a Religion?

... There are lots of other similarities...
But what are the all-important distinctions?

For one thing, religion's a metaphysical appeal to the whole entire universe for an answer to existential questions/crises. The belief-system of a religion is cosmic in scale. Usually nature's perceived as the problem to be solved (it has a lot of suffering in it) and so the answer entails transcending it.

Does communism do that?
I think you've overblown the role of religion. Some may be metaphysical and cosmic, but, basically, religion's just a belief or set of beliefs that manifests an ethic in adherents.
 
I think you've overblown the role of religion. Some may be metaphysical and cosmic, but, basically, religion's just a belief or set of beliefs that manifests an ethic in adherents.

Is secular humanism a set of beliefs that manifests an ethic in adherents?
 
... There are lots of other similarities...
But what are the all-important distinctions?

For one thing, religion's a metaphysical appeal to the whole entire universe for an answer to existential questions/crises. The belief-system of a religion is cosmic in scale. Usually nature's perceived as the problem to be solved (it has a lot of suffering in it) and so the answer entails transcending it.

Does communism do that?
I think you've overblown the role of religion. Some may be metaphysical and cosmic, but, basically, religion's just a belief or set of beliefs that manifests an ethic in adherents.

Beliefs are beliefs, right? I mean what is a belief without a behavior? So religion isn't so much a set of beliefs as it is a set of behaviors, something we can quantify. We can quantify what a person says his beliefs are but we can only quantify the belief by documenting behavior.

If one can get past the need for magic when it comes to religion, communism is very much a religion in its behavior.
 
Beliefs are beliefs, right? I mean what is a belief without a behavior? So religion isn't so much a set of beliefs as it is a set of behaviors, something we can quantify. We can quantify what a person says his beliefs are but we can only quantify the belief by documenting behavior.
But a theist that loses his faith can still exhibit the behavior, though his beliefs are atheist.

And Jews living in Soain during the Inquisition...

Witches living in Salem...

Christains in throw-them-to-the-lions Rome....

Biologists at a creationist museum....

Communists at a fascist school board meeting...
 
What are the dominant beliefs that shape human behaviour? Wealth/power, property, social standing, family, friends, various interests (including religion)...not necessarily in that order?
 
What are the dominant beliefs that shape human behaviour? Wealth/power, property, social standing, family, friends, various interests (including religion)...not necessarily in that order?

What sort of speculative silliness is that? Humans don't all have the same motives from day to day, let alone guiding directives as a species.
 
Egads!!! The role of religion overblown?

Listen to our politicians profess faith and how god guides them. The ongoing global religious conflicts.

This forum.
 
Egads!!! The role of religion overblown?

Listen to our politicians profess faith and how god guides them. The ongoing global religious conflicts.

This forum.

Can an argument be made that government itself is a religious exercise?
 
Any authoritarian government is going to have some core similarities to religions, especially to monotheism, due to it's inherent authoritarian power structure (one unquestionable, unelected authority). Neither can maintain their existence and control if people are free to think for themselves and act in their interests, or even the majority long term interests. Thus, they must use a blend of emotional manipulation, coercion, and force. Both will promote the virtue of obedience and blind loyalty, punished with violent threats. The facts will sometimes not favor what is in the interests of the authority. Both will seek to limit liberty of action and of thought (and thus attack "intellectuals"), b/c maintaining their control will require denial of at least some facts. Similarly, both will demand that loyalists ultimately just "have faith" in the authority (either "the state" or "god/the church"), even when their own rational mind says the authority is wrong. Both will tend to demean and promote bigotry against those not loyal to their authority, which includes towards other religions. Their need for blind allegiance makes allegiance to anything else a threat. Communism is confrontational to religion, but only 1 more religion than most religions are, which is all religions but itself.

Note that Marx himself advocated open critique of religion (not violence) to move people rationally away from religion, b/c it's authoritarian and controls people against their own interests. He was correct. The more aggressive and sometimes violent attack of religion by the Communist state is a byproduct of the fact that communism in a large industrial society cannot possibly be maintained without aggressive authoritarian control. That made organized religious authorities a direct threat competing for mindless loyalty. It had nothing to do with anything inherent to atheism. They could have done what most other authoritarian governments do, which is to take control of the dominant religion and eliminate others. The communist rulers' goal was to preserve their own power, but since they were pretending to follow Marx's philosophy and to care about the interests of the people, they couldn't support any one religion over others.
 
What are the dominant beliefs that shape human behaviour? Wealth/power, property, social standing, family, friends, various interests (including religion)...not necessarily in that order?

What sort of speculative silliness is that? Humans don't all have the same motives from day to day, let alone guiding directives as a species.

Is that so? There is no sex drive? The desire for family, to have children? People don't invest in property for the long term? Invest or trade in the stock market? Wars are not fought over land and resources? We are as random as flies flitting about our daily lives without purpose?
 
What are the dominant beliefs that shape human behaviour? Wealth/power, property, social standing, family, friends, various interests (including religion)...not necessarily in that order?

What sort of speculative silliness is that? Humans don't all have the same motives from day to day, let alone guiding directives as a species.

Is that so? There is no sex drive? The desire for family, to have children? People don't invest in property for the long term? Invest or trade in the stock market? Wars are not fought over land and resources? We are as random as flies flitting about our daily lives without purpose?

I am questioning your essentialism, not your cases. Human behavior is contextual and situational by its nature, and couched in unique symbolic categories depending on upbringing and experience.
 
Is that so? There is no sex drive? The desire for family, to have children? People don't invest in property for the long term? Invest or trade in the stock market? Wars are not fought over land and resources? We are as random as flies flitting about our daily lives without purpose?

I am questioning your essentialism, not your cases. Human behavior is contextual and situational by its nature, and couched in unique symbolic categories depending on upbringing and experience.

No doubt that environment, upbringing, culture, etc, plays a large part in shaping our behaviour. However we do have inherent and essential needs and wants, the need for food, shelter, clothing, companionship, purpose, etc, which results in related flow of decisions and actions.
 
Egads!!! The role of religion overblown?

Listen to our politicians profess faith and how god guides them. The ongoing global religious conflicts.

This forum.

Can an argument be made that government itself is a religious exercise?

Again as I see it is all the same human dynamics. Govt, religion, unions and all the rest. Good po0liticians understand that as well as con artists and comedians.

Hitler may have been the greatest politician of all time, albeit evil. Hs image and clothes were selected for effect. He was expert at pushing deep German cultural buttons. Fortunately he was a lousy military leader.

Hitler and Stalin and Trump as well were personality cults. Jesus is a personality cult, people weep over the image. North Korea. The Pope.

All the same dynamics. Christianity created the ultimate wrestling match. Satan vs Jesus and god. Atheists are minions of Satan of course. Christian radio and TV act as sports announcers keeping score on the game.
 
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I think it's fair to say that communism, or any political/philosophical viewpoint, can be held religiously; as an unquestioned and absolute faith whose tenets are believed absolutely.

But I don't think communism is necessarily clung to in such a dogmatic way, by all who think it's a workable way to govern human beings. So, I would answer the title question "no".
 
Edward O. Wilson, a noted American biologist recognized as the world’s leading authority on ants, when asked about communism: “Good ideology, wrong species.”
Is Wilson saying the ideology is too simple for so complex an organism as humans? If that's the case, then so is any given religion it would seem to me, which is why we have invented so many variations. Fundamentally communism and religion don't seem very different.
 
E.O. Wilson was a fine biologist, but I've never understood why skeptics put so much weight on the social opinions of entymologists and so forth. That sort of thinking gave us Social Darwinism, race theory, eugenics...
 
Edward O. Wilson, a noted American biologist recognized as the world’s leading authority on ants, when asked about communism: “Good ideology, wrong species.”
Is Wilson saying the ideology is too simple for so complex an organism as humans?
As I understand it, it wasn't about complexity but about the effect of genetics on the animal's psychology. Worker ants are sterile; their genetic interest is in the survival of the queen. Humans make their own babies; our genetic interest is in the survival of our own children. So ant genes evolved to build brains that are naturally predisposed to the sort of self-sacrifice communism would depend on to work; human genes didn't.
 
Communism, using the atheist's famous words.

"God not a requirement!", or "God not neccessary!"

I agree. The most famous was 'religion is the opium of the masses'. You have to look at the times. Religion was a tool of state and the Vatican was a political power. Religion was used to keep the ignorant in check. In Russia if you were of nobility you could kill a peasant and pay the church for an indulgence.

Religion and in particular the Abrahamic has always been oppressively and violent, justified by interpretation of scripture.

Israeli conservatives justify taking Palestinian land by saying it was granted to them by god. Netanyahu has been explicit on camera. US conservatives think the USA is ordained by god. Individual Christians believe they are ordained to convert the world.

Etc, etc, etc...
 
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