Politics Is it time for the west to assemble an army and kick Putin out of Ukraine?

[barbos]

Kinda like how Putin lied about his reasons for invading Ukraine, something curiously you don't give a fuck about.

Putin did not lie. He said denazification and demilitarization and this is exactly what is going on there.
Now, if it happens that full control of the territory required to achieve these goals then so be it.

 

[Jayjay]

english subtitles present

What's this supposed to prove? That war crimes were committed also by Ukrainians? That's true, in war all sorts of murderous assholes can go on power trips. That Bova dude should be prosecuted and convicted by the Ukrainians, if he is still serving. If he was captured, the Russians will kill him without trial and I won't shed a tear.

But the score is, what, 1000-to-1 for Russian war crimes compared to Ukrainian? Zelensky awarded a medal to Bova, according to the video, but Putin did the same with the murderous thugs who killed hundreds of civilians in Bucha. At least Ukrainian side is investigating and condemning the war crimes on their side (like the video that surfaced a few months ago where Ukrainian soldiers shot prisoners in the legs), whereas Russia categorically lies and denies everything they do.

 

[Patooka]

Putin did not lie. He said denazification and demilitarization and this is exactly what is going on there.

Don't make me point out his infatuation with The Wagner Group again. It really bothers you that the rest of the world isn't buying Putin's bullshit doesn't it?

 

[barbos]

That war crimes were committed also by Ukrainians?

Also? where do you see war crimes commited by russians?

What it proves that your Media is a bunch of criminal liars.

 

[barbos]

But the score is, what, 1000-to-1 for Russian war crimes compared to Ukrainian?

No, Russia committed no war crimes at all. Your media is simply lying.
Please note, I did not merely say "they repeat ukrainian regime lies" I said they are actively lie.

 

[barbos]

but Putin did the same with the murderous thugs who killed hundreds of civilians in Bucha.

Here is a news for you, ukrainians did that. Don't believe Putin, believe EU critters who determined that WW1 (not even WW2) ordinance was used to kill all these people lying on the streets.
And don't forget that satellite images were ...... forged.
Harkov City Hall bombing - ukrainians did that.
Donetsk bombing? ukrainian army keeps doing that.
2014 Lugansk attack - ukrainian army did that.
Kramatorsk Tochka U rail station attack - ukrainian army did that.
List can go on forever,
Ukrainian Army is just a bunch of psychopath commanders and inbred drug addicts subordinates. Yes, the guy in the video looks like he is as I described.

Just because your criminal "free" media does not report that does not mean it's not a reality.

 

[Patooka]

Here is youtube once again proving how shite the Russian military is:

 

[DrZoidberg]

Wow. Supply troops as well. That's exactly the opposite direction of where we should go.

Are you having problems purchasing an airline ticket to Ukraine to help them out?

Why do you think that is the opposite direction we should go?

Because, even if we assume that your current direction is kinda right (it isn't), throwing good money after bad is never a good idea. It's time to cut your losses.
Using Ukraine to hurt Russia has failed.
And again, your side are the bad guys, not Russia, eventually public will see that.

First, we aren't using Ukraine to hurt Russia. We are hindering Russia's efforts to hurt Ukraine.

First, you absolutely do. Your shithead generals and politicians admit exactly that.
Even your nazi puppets in Ukraine admit that. Your own academics admit that.
Everyone except your corrupt media admit that.

Where's the evidence for any of these statements?

 

[Patooka]

Where's the evidence for any of these statements?

Youtube comments. Duh.

 

[DrZoidberg]

english subtitles present

What's this supposed to prove? That war crimes were committed also by Ukrainians? That's true, in war all sorts of murderous assholes can go on power trips. That Bova dude should be prosecuted and convicted by the Ukrainians, if he is still serving. If he was captured, the Russians will kill him without trial and I won't shed a tear.

But the score is, what, 1000-to-1 for Russian war crimes compared to Ukrainian? Zelensky awarded a medal to Bova, according to the video, but Putin did the same with the murderous thugs who killed hundreds of civilians in Bucha. At least Ukrainian side is investigating and condemning the war crimes on their side (like the video that surfaced a few months ago where Ukrainian soldiers shot prisoners in the legs), whereas Russia categorically lies and denies everything they do.

Stop right there. You are falling into Putin's propaganda trap. Why are you falling into the trap of feeling you need to defend the Ukrainians soldiers behaviours? Why do you believe anything in that video is true?

1) It's a video of a prisoner of war, most likely tortured, saying whatever his handlers tell him to say.
2) The facts presented are amazingly easy to fake.
3) What makes you think the woman is who she says she is?
4) The guy is filmed as if he's doing this from his room at home, and just being, "a citizen reporter". Isn't it more likely that he's employed by Putin and that the channel is a propaganda channel. Russia is famous for doing exactly these kinds of things. Both China and Russia have become experts at using social media for propaganda purposes. I think the most obvious explanation is that the entire channel is nothing but a channel with which to spread the lies Putin wants to spread. I don't believe a word of it.

 

[DrZoidberg]

english subtitles are present.
Enjoy your ukrainian army.

Thanks for sharing. It's interesting and valuable to find out where you get your information. It's been most enlightening.

 

[fromderinside]

The meaning of "The frog of war" is jumping to conclusions.

Rat-tat-bumpf

 

[Jayjay]

That war crimes were committed also by Ukrainians?

Also? where do you see war crimes commited by russians?

Everywhere they attacked. Russia has zero concern for civilian casualties, and you can see that in Bucha, Mariupol, Izyum, Kherson, as well as the shelling in Donetsk and Kharkiv, and missiles strikes in western Ukraine.

But the thing about war crimes is that war is always a crime. I think it's sophistry to whine about war crimes, when the entire invasion was unprovoked, unjustified, and pure evil. Hitler had better reasons to invade Poland than Putin had to invade Ukraine.

But the score is, what, 1000-to-1 for Russian war crimes compared to Ukrainian?

No, Russia committed no war crimes at all. Your media is simply lying.
Please note, I did not merely say "they repeat ukrainian regime lies" I said they are actively lie.

This is pure projection on your part. Just because the Russian state media is full of horse shit and lies all the time, doesn't mean all media lies. There are even Russian media outlets that are doing a pretty good job like Novaya Gazeta or Meduza, unfortunately they were all banned in Russia this year for some reason.

but Putin did the same with the murderous thugs who killed hundreds of civilians in Bucha.

Here is a news for you, ukrainians did that. Don't believe Putin, believe EU critters who determined that WW1 (not even WW2) ordinance was used to kill all these people lying on the streets.

I think you're referring to this:

Dozens of Bucha civilians were killed by metal darts from Russian artillery

Forensic doctors discover fléchettes – rarely used in modern warfare – in bodies found in mass graves

www.theguardian.com

This is the problem with the dumbass youtubers you use to get your information from. They're a broken telephone. Somewhere along the line someone read an article in Washington Post, Guardian or other western news source about fléchettes dating back to WW1, and misunderstood it either deliberately or because they're brain damaged idiots. That doesn't mean it's actually a WW1 ordnance that Russia used in Bucha. It was modern Russian artillery shells.

And yes, it was Russian artillery that used anti-personnel munitions against civilians.

And don't forget that satellite images were ...... forged.

Don't be fucking daft. We went through this already. There are images from two different satellites, and drone footage showing Russians shooting civvies on the street in Bucha. And you're still clinging to the idea that somehow, Ukrainians are able to hack into both satellites and somehow forge all the images in a way that exactly matches the videos they took on the ground, on the same day when they entered the town on April 1st?

Harkov City Hall bombing - ukrainians did that.

No, they didn't. Russia has been shelling Kharkiv and firing missiles at it hundreds of times, killing multiple civilians just last week. Why would this one time have been any special?

The only "evidence" you had for your position was a missing frame in the video, which could be explained by frame rate conversion. And you gave no explanation how an alleged bomb on ground level can blow up a hole on the roof of the building (It was another missile 30 minutes later, because the first one missed).

Donetsk bombing? ukrainian army keeps doing that.

Because Russia puts ammunitions depots in the city.

2014 Lugansk attack - ukrainian army did that.

Russia invaded Luhansk, so even collateral damage done by Ukraine is ultimately Russia's fault.

Kramatorsk Tochka U rail station attack - ukrainian army did that.

No, they didn't. Russia provably had Tochka-U missiles also, the launch was spotted in Russian occupied territory, and Ukraine had no reason to shoot its own people. The contrary evidence of serial numbers and position where the rocket engine fell I already explained to you before, so I'm not going to bother repeating, unless you insist on opening that conversation again.

List can go on forever,

List of Russian war crimes, you mean?

This is exactly what I meant by Russians not even admitting to the crimes they're doing. Which is part of the reason why they keep happening. If there is no acknowledgement or institutional punishment for killing, raping, or looting, and it's infact encouraged, then of course people will commit those atrocities.

 

[Jayjay]

english subtitles present

What's this supposed to prove? That war crimes were committed also by Ukrainians? That's true, in war all sorts of murderous assholes can go on power trips. That Bova dude should be prosecuted and convicted by the Ukrainians, if he is still serving. If he was captured, the Russians will kill him without trial and I won't shed a tear.

But the score is, what, 1000-to-1 for Russian war crimes compared to Ukrainian? Zelensky awarded a medal to Bova, according to the video, but Putin did the same with the murderous thugs who killed hundreds of civilians in Bucha. At least Ukrainian side is investigating and condemning the war crimes on their side (like the video that surfaced a few months ago where Ukrainian soldiers shot prisoners in the legs), whereas Russia categorically lies and denies everything they do.

Stop right there. You are falling into Putin's propaganda trap. Why are you falling into the trap of feeling you need to defend the Ukrainians soldiers behaviours? Why do you believe anything in that video is true?

1) It's a video of a prisoner of war, most likely tortured, saying whatever his handlers tell him to say.
2) The facts presented are amazingly easy to fake.
3) What makes you think the woman is who she says she is?
4) The guy is filmed as if he's doing this from his room at home, and just being, "a citizen reporter". Isn't it more likely that he's employed by Putin and that the channel is a propaganda channel. Russia is famous for doing exactly these kinds of things. Both China and Russia have become experts at using social media for propaganda purposes. I think the most obvious explanation is that the entire channel is nothing but a channel with which to spread the lies Putin wants to spread. I don't believe a word of it.

The point was that even if allegations were true, it wouldn't change a thing. I don't think there is a war where "war crimes" don't happen, because war is a crime, so I would expect Ukraine to have committed at least some of its own. And we do in fact have evidence that it has, although not in this case. But whatever Ukraine has done pales in comparison to Russia's illegal, unprovoked war and the atrocities that it has committed.

Also, I think when arguing about something, I try to take the opposition argument at face value out of respect. I wouldn't want my sources to be dismissed without evidence by default.

However, you're absolutely right about this video. When I looked back and googled the guy, it seems like he's a regular Kremlin shill:

Shary

ФЕЙКИ ШАРИЯ. Как Шарий покрывает убийц украинцев. Часть 1 ФЕЙКИ ШАРИЯ: Разоблачение пропагандиста. Часть 2 Откровения Шария о псковских десантниках оказались заказным фейком Про-российский блогер…

www.spisok-putina.org

So probably everything he said is pure bullshit. Funny how all of barbos's sources seem to turn out to be getting their paychecks from Russian propaganda organizations.

 

[Jayjay]

Kinda like how Putin lied about his reasons for invading Ukraine, something curiously you don't give a fuck about.

Putin did not lie. He said denazification and demilitarization and this is exactly what is going on there.
Now, if it happens that full control of the territory required to achieve these goals then so be it.

Let's see...

Demilitarization: Ukraine has a steady supply of materiel from the west, and while it has lost old Soviet stock, it's got billions of $ worth of new NATO weapons to replace that.

Denazification: Azov battalion have become national heroes and are more popular than ever before.

I guess it's a work in progress.

 

[Jayjay]

As for lies, I find it funny that Russian MOD regularly just flat out makes up stuff. Like a few days ago when they said they had destroyed an American HIMARS launcher.

Images from the ground show the remains of the "HIMARS":

(And as usual, there were civilian casualties only. No sign of any military targets.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Wow. Supply troops as well. That's exactly the opposite direction of where we should go.

Are you having problems purchasing an airline ticket to Ukraine to help them out?

Why do you think that is the opposite direction we should go?

Because, even if we assume that your current direction is kinda right (it isn't), throwing good money after bad is never a good idea. It's time to cut your losses.
Using Ukraine to hurt Russia has failed.
And again, your side are the bad guys, not Russia, eventually public will see that.

First, we aren't using Ukraine to hurt Russia. We are hindering Russia's efforts to hurt Ukraine.

First, you absolutely do. Your shithead generals and politicians admit exactly that.
Even your nazi puppets in Ukraine admit that. Your own academics admit that.
Everyone except your corrupt media admit that.

It's what is happening but only because you chose to attack. If you hadn't attacked nothing would have happened.

Second, it seems to be very effective. Our weapons are blowing up far more value in Russian hardware than they cost.

That's what you keep saying to yourself.
In reality, Russia gets more due to high oil/gas prices.
Not to mention Russia gets your weapons really cheap. I mean dirt cheap.

The whole thing was devised by neocons to hurt Russia one way or another. It turned out the opposite, it hurts more the West than Russia. Russia can sell its gas/oil just fine but at much higher price.
The more you insist on staying the course the less of Ukraine you will have left to rule over.

If Russia is getting the weapons why are they being used to hit Russian units, not Ukrainian ones?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Kinda like how Putin lied about his reasons for invading Ukraine, something curiously you don't give a fuck about.

Putin did not lie. He said denazification and demilitarization and this is exactly what is going on there.
Now, if it happens that full control of the territory required to achieve these goals then so be it.

A lot of denazification and demilitarization of Russian forces is happening in Ukraine.

 

[DrZoidberg]

It's what is happening but only because you chose to attack. If you hadn't attacked nothing would have happened.

I highly doubt Barbos is Putin. I suspect Putin has better things to do than to chat on a forum.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

As for lies, I find it funny that Russian MOD regularly just flat out makes up stuff. Like a few days ago when they said they had destroyed an American HIMARS launcher.

Images from the ground show the remains of the "HIMARS":

(And as usual, there were civilian casualties only. No sign of any military targets.)

Lies? How about Russia was crushing Ukraine and this whole thing was over several months ago.

It appears from the aggregate that Russia is advancing, slowly, but surely... but definitely slowly and are randomly bombing the nation of Ukraine to attempt to weaken resolve.

Resolve that allegedly didn't exist.