Politics Is it time for the west to assemble an army and kick Putin out of Ukraine?

[Harry Bosch]

Of course China! What do you think would happen to our economy if China were to invade Taiwan? Do you use any products that rely on chips? I'm sorry to say but the world truely is flat today. We rely on a global supply chain that only works well when countries aren't at war (or doing a pandemic). Were you as concerned about American globalism as when Bush invaded Iraq?

I don't think giving billions of dollars worth of our weapons to the Ukraine is going to be much of a deterrence to China's aspirations.

It will be, if it's successful. The risk is that China might start bankrolling Russia.

I agree with you that China is key. But I sense that China is getting tired of this war. They are now claiming that the "no-limits" relationship with Russia was a misunderstanding:

China's ambassador tries to cast ‘no limits’ with Russia as a ‘misunderstanding’

China is going to look after the interests of China. Are they getting a good deal by buying cheap Russian gas - you bet. But this war is starting to eat into their profits. They want Europe's favor. I think that it's starting to turn against Russia. We'll see...

 

[Harry Bosch]

You're very naive if you think that China isn't very carefully studying how the west stands up to or not Russia in it's war with Ukraine.
You keep skipping the inflation issue. I've read your other posts blaming Biden for inflation. According to the CATO institute, the invasion is responsible for a $1.00 increase in gas in the US. How much do you think that is costing the tax payers? How much of inflation is due to the war? Yea, I'd trade billions for trillions any day of the week.

Yeah, I did notice you are very free and easy with US tax payer money. You look at this as an investment. A weird way of looking at it.

?? So why are you always complaining about inflation then? Do you understand the relationship between the cost of gas/oil and the war in Ukraine? Do you understand that once the war is over, and things return to normal (hopefully); the cost of gas/oil will drop dramatically. Do you understand the impact that would have on our economy? On the world's economy? It's okay if you don't understand. I can explain it in more detail if you're struggling. I just don't want to bore anyone.

 

[TSwizzle]

You're very naive if you think that China isn't very carefully studying how the west stands up to or not Russia in it's war with Ukraine.
You keep skipping the inflation issue. I've read your other posts blaming Biden for inflation. According to the CATO institute, the invasion is responsible for a $1.00 increase in gas in the US. How much do you think that is costing the tax payers? How much of inflation is due to the war? Yea, I'd trade billions for trillions any day of the week.

Yeah, I did notice you are very free and easy with US tax payer money. You look at this as an investment. A weird way of looking at it.

?? So why are you always complaining about inflation then? Do you understand the relationship between the cost of gas/oil and the war in Ukraine? Do you understand that once the war is over, and things return to normal (hopefully); the cost of gas/oil will drop dramatically. Do you understand the impact that would have on our economy? On the world's economy? It's okay if you don't understand. I can explain it in more detail if you're struggling. I just don't want to bore anyone.

This is still another US military adventure in a regional conflict that I don't think the US should be getting involved in. Let the Europeans sort it out if they want to with their own money. Jeezus christ you keep banging on about the price of gas like it's ALL down to Russia/Ukraine. Brandon fucked up on day one with his stupid shutting pipe lines, green agenda, yanking drilling permits and build back better bullshit and will continue to do so long after the dust settles in Kiev. Buttegeig and Brandon have permanent hard ons for expensive gas, just the cost of transitioning.

 

[Harry Bosch]

You're very naive if you think that China isn't very carefully studying how the west stands up to or not Russia in it's war with Ukraine.
You keep skipping the inflation issue. I've read your other posts blaming Biden for inflation. According to the CATO institute, the invasion is responsible for a $1.00 increase in gas in the US. How much do you think that is costing the tax payers? How much of inflation is due to the war? Yea, I'd trade billions for trillions any day of the week.

Yeah, I did notice you are very free and easy with US tax payer money. You look at this as an investment. A weird way of looking at it.

?? So why are you always complaining about inflation then? Do you understand the relationship between the cost of gas/oil and the war in Ukraine? Do you understand that once the war is over, and things return to normal (hopefully); the cost of gas/oil will drop dramatically. Do you understand the impact that would have on our economy? On the world's economy? It's okay if you don't understand. I can explain it in more detail if you're struggling. I just don't want to bore anyone.

This is still another US military adventure in a regional conflict that I don't think the US should be getting involved in. Let the Europeans sort it out if they want to with their own money. Jeezus christ you keep banging on about the price of gas like it's ALL down to Russia/Ukraine. Brandon fucked up on day one with his stupid shutting pipe lines, green agenda, yanking drilling permits and build back better bullshit and will continue to do so long after the dust settles in Kiev. Buttegeig and Brandon have permanent hard ons for expensive gas, just the cost of transitioning.

We have no US military personnel officially in Ukraine. Secondly, the US is the greatest producer of oil in the world. Far more than either Saudi Arabia or Russia. There is far more drilling today than there was under Trump. Below is a pretty good link that accurately describes why the cost of gas is so high today:

Gasoline Prices Up Due to Global Supply-Demand Issues, Russian Invasion of Ukraine - FactCheck.org

U.S. presidents have little control over the price that consumers pay for gasoline. It depends mostly on the price of crude oil, which is set on the global market, based largely on worldwide supply and demand. Yet Republican campaign ads have falsely claimed or suggested that President Joe Biden...

www.factcheck.org

 

[TSwizzle]

We have no US military personnel officially in Ukraine.

Makes no difference to my opinion that the US should not be getting involved in a European regional conflict.

The U.S. and allies committed more rocket systems, ammunition and other military aid to Ukraine Wednesday, as American defense leaders said they see the war to block Russian gains in the eastern Donbas region grinding on for some time.
Speaking at the close of a virtual meeting with about 50 defense leaders from around the world, U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said it will be “hard work” to keep allies and partners all committed to the war effort as the months drag on. “We’re pushing hard to maintain and intensify the momentum of donations,” Austin said. “This will be an area of focus for the foreseeable future, as it should be, in terms of how long our allies and partners will remain committed ... There’s no question that this will always be hard work making sure that we maintain unity.” Officials have been reluctant to say how long the war may last, but Army Gen. Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, suggested it could be a long slog.

AP

Another $270m down the Suwannee.

 

[Patooka]

The time to save Ukraine has passed.

I love this argument. A lot of Trumptards and pro Putin whores are saying this eg Carlson.

So I've got a question. When was it a time to "save" Ukraine?

I lied. My second question for you Trump whores is why was the time "Obamas fault", but Trump gets a free pass with his "favor" and shit?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

The question isn't where it is forbidden, the question is where is it authorized.

There is a long and established practice of sending aid to countries which strongly suggests that over time, both Congress and the President believe it is authorized. Moreover, to my knowledge, there is no SCOTUS ruling that this is not unconstitutional.

You did not answer my question (what a surprise). Where in the constitution is it authorized?

 

[laughing dog]

The question isn't where it is forbidden, the question is where is it authorized.

There is a long and established practice of sending aid to countries which strongly suggests that over time, both Congress and the President believe it is authorized. Moreover, to my knowledge, there is no SCOTUS ruling that this is not unconstitutional.

You did not answer my question (what a surprise). Where in the constitution is it authorized?

Actually, the question is both. It clearly is not forbidden. And the Constitution does enumerate powers of Congress (Section 8) and powers denied to Congress (section 9).

So, the answer to your question is Section 8.

Now how about you answering my original question or are you going to keep evading?

 

[Harry Bosch]

We have no US military personnel officially in Ukraine.

Makes no difference to my opinion that the US should not be getting involved in a European regional conflict.

The U.S. and allies committed more rocket systems, ammunition and other military aid to Ukraine Wednesday, as American defense leaders said they see the war to block Russian gains in the eastern Donbas region grinding on for some time.
Speaking at the close of a virtual meeting with about 50 defense leaders from around the world, U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said it will be “hard work” to keep allies and partners all committed to the war effort as the months drag on. “We’re pushing hard to maintain and intensify the momentum of donations,” Austin said. “This will be an area of focus for the foreseeable future, as it should be, in terms of how long our allies and partners will remain committed ... There’s no question that this will always be hard work making sure that we maintain unity.” Officials have been reluctant to say how long the war may last, but Army Gen. Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, suggested it could be a long slog.

AP

Another $270m down the Suwannee.

The western arms and support to Ukraine will shorten the war. Yes, it's going to be a slog. But the war will either end the Russian way or the Ukranian way. The Russians want to "de-nazify" Ukraine. That is their term. You know and I know that this isn't really possible. It's not reasonable for Ukraine to commit suicide. The Ukrainian way is to destroy the Russian military offensive weapons and encourage them to go home. This is slowely happening. The Russians have lost 1,000s of tanks and artillery pieces. 50,000 soldiers have been killed or wounded (estimated). Many ships sunk. The Russians are running out of offensive weapons. If you know of a better quicker way to encourage Russians to return home, I'd love to hear it.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

The question isn't where it is forbidden, the question is where is it authorized.

There is a long and established practice of sending aid to countries which strongly suggests that over time, both Congress and the President believe it is authorized. Moreover, to my knowledge, there is no SCOTUS ruling that this is not unconstitutional.

You did not answer my question (what a surprise). Where in the constitution is it authorized?

Actually, the question is both. It clearly is not forbidden. And the Constitution does enumerate powers of Congress (Section 8) and powers denied to Congress (section 9).

So, the answer to your question is Section 8.

Now how about you answering my original question or are you going to keep evading?

The 10th Amendment clearly points out that powers that haven't been explicitly granted are not granted. I really like the 10th Amendment, so you probably hate it. Because of that amendment the question is where in the constitution it is authorized.

Since you believe it is authorized by Section 8, where in Section 8 is it authorized?

 

[laughing dog]

The 10th Amendment clearly points out that powers that haven't been explicitly granted are not granted. I really like the 10th Amendment, so you probably hate it.

Please stop your conjectures about my thoughts - they are usually baseless and frequently stupid.

Because of that amendment the question is where in the constitution it is authorized.

Since you believe it is authorized by Section 8, where in Section 8 is it authorized?

"To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations," is the relevant phrase, IMO. Apparently, it is not only what I believe, because the USA has engaged in aid to countries since 1812.

It really is up to those who claim it is unconstitutional to make their case.

 

[fromderinside]

I was about to write Russia. But it's not really Russia that has invaded the Ukraine, it's Putin. Russians are his victims as well.

What do you think? Has this invasion gone on long enough? Is it time to make a show of force and push out Russia once and for all?

I think the time for sanctions and diplomacy has passed. The Ukraine is slowly being ground to dust, and will lose this war. If we (the west) don't step up and help them.

What do you think?

It's Russia. They are what that are because they are Russians' not because Putin has some wand like a military to use as a hammer. As far back as I care to read Russians have been serfs or less.


We can't go to war with the USS-er, Russia, partly because some traitors in GB and US divulged our nuclear secrets to the USSR in the late forties and early fifties.

I think we should support Ukraine because they believe they are free.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Of course China! What do you think would happen to our economy if China were to invade Taiwan? Do you use any products that rely on chips? I'm sorry to say but the world truely is flat today. We rely on a global supply chain that only works well when countries aren't at war (or doing a pandemic). Were you as concerned about American globalism as when Bush invaded Iraq?

I don't think giving billions of dollars worth of our weapons to the Ukraine is going to be much of a deterrence to China's aspirations.

I think it's a big deterrent. The world response to Ukraine shows that attacking a nation where there's a clear good guy (unlike what we see in the Middle East, mostly bad guy vs bad guy) won't be easy pickings. This will be a substantial deterrent to military adventurism by both Russia and China.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You're very naive if you think that China isn't very carefully studying how the west stands up to or not Russia in it's war with Ukraine.
You keep skipping the inflation issue. I've read your other posts blaming Biden for inflation. According to the CATO institute, the invasion is responsible for a $1.00 increase in gas in the US. How much do you think that is costing the tax payers? How much of inflation is due to the war? Yea, I'd trade billions for trillions any day of the week.

Yeah, I did notice you are very free and easy with US tax payer money. You look at this as an investment. A weird way of looking at it.

Those weapons were built for the purpose of destroying Russian military. They are doing exactly what they were intended for.

The fact that it's Ukrainian fingers on the triggers doesn't change this. Unless they are using them less efficiently than we would have there's really no value being lost--the billions were already spent. There is a huge gain, though--the Russian military has been exposed as nearly worthless, their stocks of high-tech weapons are pretty much depleted and it's being done without any real risk of turning into WWIII. This is an incredibly good deal for us and would remain so even if we didn't care one bit about the fate of Ukraine.

 

[skepticalbip]

You're very naive if you think that China isn't very carefully studying how the west stands up to or not Russia in it's war with Ukraine.
You keep skipping the inflation issue. I've read your other posts blaming Biden for inflation. According to the CATO institute, the invasion is responsible for a $1.00 increase in gas in the US. How much do you think that is costing the tax payers? How much of inflation is due to the war? Yea, I'd trade billions for trillions any day of the week.

Yeah, I did notice you are very free and easy with US tax payer money. You look at this as an investment. A weird way of looking at it.

Those weapons were built for the purpose of destroying Russian military. They are doing exactly what they were intended for.

The fact that it's Ukrainian fingers on the triggers doesn't change this. Unless they are using them less efficiently than we would have there's really no value being lost--the billions were already spent. There is a huge gain, though--the Russian military has been exposed as nearly worthless, their stocks of high-tech weapons are pretty much depleted and it's being done without any real risk of turning into WWIII. This is an incredibly good deal for us and would remain so even if we didn't care one bit about the fate of Ukraine.

It is an incredibly good deal for the military-industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about in his farewell speech in 1961. The manufacturers of those sophisticated weapons systems are receiving a windfall from the sales and the politicians pushing for the use of those systems are receiving their campaign contributions and possible future lucrative positions when they lose their seats or retire from their government position.

I would say that Ike's fearful warning has proven fairly prophetic. Politicians have managed to pretty much keep the U.S. involved in wars continually somewhere in the world since WWII.

 

[laughing dog]

It is an incredibly good deal for the military-industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about in his farewell speech in 1961. The manufacturers of those sophisticated weapons systems are receiving a windfall from the sales and the politicians pushing for the use of those systems are receiving their campaign contributions and possible future lucrative positions when they lose their seats or retire from their government position.

So? For any policy, it is an incredibly good deal for some party(s).

 

[skepticalbip]

It is an incredibly good deal for the military-industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about in his farewell speech in 1961. The manufacturers of those sophisticated weapons systems are receiving a windfall from the sales and the politicians pushing for the use of those systems are receiving their campaign contributions and possible future lucrative positions when they lose their seats or retire from their government position.

So? For any policy, it is an incredibly good deal for some party(s).

You obviously have no idea what Eisenhower was warning us about, if indeed you even knew he gave us a warning.

 

[laughing dog]

You obviously have no idea what Eisenhower was warning us about, if indeed you even knew he gave us a warning.

The military-industrial complex is an web of special interests that puts its self-interest ahead of the nations. All webs of special interests do that. You simply pointed out to one of them because they support a policy with which you disagree. If the USA did not get help Ukraine, one could point to a different web of special interests that benefited and who could contribute to politicians. The difference is that Putin's bitches and dupes did not prevail, so that the "wrong" special interests benefited.

 

[skepticalbip]

You obviously have no idea what Eisenhower was warning us about, if indeed you even knew he gave us a warning.

The military-industrial complex is an web of special interests that puts its self-interest ahead of the nations. All webs of special interests do that. You simply pointed out to one of them because they support a policy with which you disagree. If the USA did not get help Ukraine, one could point to a different web of special interests that benefited and who could contribute to politicians. The difference is that Putin's bitches and dupes did not prevail, so that the "wrong" special interests benefited.

Was this your attempt to prove that you have no idea what Eisenhower was warning us about? If so, good job.

 

[laughing dog]

Was this your attempt to prove that you have no idea what Eisenhower was warning us about? If so, good job.

I am impressed you are tethered enough to reality to correctly spell Eisenhower's name even if you are incapable of understanding his broader point.