Is nothing only perceived as blackness, or is it actually blackness?

[Juma]

So any "damage" results in an apple lost?
That is obvious not true.

No, just a change in the condition of the apple. First a whole apple - an apple - then a crushed apple (being specific). Just a distinction between its condition.

Exactly. Thus a mashed apple is still an apple.

 

[untermensche]

An apple stops being the same apple if it's shape changes. Shape is a feature of a specific observable apple. If it's shape changes enough it stops being an apple at all.

"Enough"? Are you kidding?

We doesnt categorize apples as apples from shape but from wether it makes sense to call them apples.

I'm not talking about a category or a concept, and I've said it about 10 times.

I'm talking about an individual observable apple.

It is a distinct thing with a distinct shape.

If that shape changes you may still have an apple but you don't have the SAME apple you have a different apple with a different shape.

 

[bilby]

No, just a change in the condition of the apple. First a whole apple - an apple - then a crushed apple (being specific). Just a distinction between its condition.

Exactly. Thus a mashed apple is still an apple.

Hence its description 'mashed apple', and not 'mashed thing for which no noun exists'.

 

[Juma]

"Enough"? Are you kidding?

We doesnt categorize apples as apples from shape but from wether it makes sense to call them apples.

I'm not talking about a category or a concept, and I've said it about 10 times.

I'm talking about an individual observable apple.

It is a distinct thing with a distinct shape.

If that shape changes you may still have an apple but you don't have the SAME apple you have a different apple with a different shape.

That would be really weird... No, the identity doesnt change when the form of the apple changes.

 

[Perspicuo]

"Nothingness" is a concept- which is itself something. So true nothingness cannot be conceptualized.

It cannot even be experienced. In true nothingness, you are not there to do the experiencing.

For example, I don't know how it feels on the surface of the sun. Not only the experience is impossible due to instantaneous nuclear annihilation, but I'm simply not there to experience it as of right now (but I can tell you how it feels to type on a laptop in front of my desk at home). By definition, in nothingness, there is no existence, thus I do not exist... at least I don't exist there (to paraphrase Epicurus, "Where death is, we are not; where we are, death is not").

 

[DBT]

No, just a change in the condition of the apple. First a whole apple - an apple - then a crushed apple (being specific). Just a distinction between its condition.

Exactly. Thus a mashed apple is still an apple.

It is an apple, but if someone asked for an apple and you gave them a bowl of apple mash, they would be surprised. If the apple had been put through a blender, it may not be recognized as being an apple. Your Guest asking you 'what is this,' to which you reply 'an apple' while she looks at both you and the mash with a dubious expression.

 

[untermensche]

I'm not talking about a category or a concept, and I've said it about 10 times.

I'm talking about an individual observable apple.

It is a distinct thing with a distinct shape.

If that shape changes you may still have an apple but you don't have the SAME apple you have a different apple with a different shape.

That would be really weird... No, the identity doesnt change when the form of the apple changes.

The identity most definitely changes. The shape of an individual apple is part of its identity.

If I have a living mouse and it dies has it's identity changed?

Is a living mouse the same thing as a dead mouse?

 

[Juma]

That would be really weird... No, the identity doesnt change when the form of the apple changes.

The identity most definitely changes. The shape of an individual apple is part of its identity.

If I have a living mouse and it dies has it's identity changed?

Is a living mouse the same thing as a dead mouse?

Its the same mouse. For gods sake:
read up on identity.

 

[untermensche]

The identity most definitely changes. The shape of an individual apple is part of its identity.

If I have a living mouse and it dies has it's identity changed?

Is a living mouse the same thing as a dead mouse?

Its the same mouse. For gods sake:
read up on identity.

Is it?

The same mouse?

Do you know what the word "same" means?

 

[Juma]

Its the same mouse. For gods sake:
read up on identity.

Is it?

The same mouse?

Do you know what the word "same" means?

Yes. It is the same mouse, now sadly deceased.

 

[untermensche]

Is it?

The same mouse?

Do you know what the word "same" means?

Yes. It is the same mouse, now sadly deceased.

So being alive is the same as being dead?

 

[Juma]

Yes. It is the same mouse, now sadly deceased.

So being alive is the same as being dead?

Its identity is the same.

 

[untermensche]

So being alive is the same as being dead?

Its identity is the same.

So the identity of the living mouse has nothing to do with it being alive?

Says who?

Why do you think you can restrict identity in this way?

 

[Juma]

Its identity is the same.

So the identity of the living mouse has nothing to do with it being alive?

Says who?

Why do you think you can restrict identity in this way?

Restrict? You mad?

 

[untermensche]

So the identity of the living mouse has nothing to do with it being alive?

Says who?

Why do you think you can restrict identity in this way?

Restrict? You mad?

Yes restrict.

You evade.

 

[Juma]

Restrict? You mad?

Yes restrict.

You evade.

When a leaf turns yellow it doesnt become another leaf. It is still the same leaf.

 

[fromderinside]

Yes restrict.

You evade.

When a leaf turns yellow it doesnt become another leaf. It is still the same leaf.

Indeed. Otherwise we wouldn't need to talk about states of things.

 

[untermensche]

Yes restrict.

You evade.

When a leaf turns yellow it doesnt become another leaf. It is still the same leaf.

The color created by the brain is not a feature? Reflective properties are not features?

What exactly are features of apparent objects if you say shape and color are not?

 

[fromderinside]

Desiccate a leaf its reflective properties change. It is still a leaf. How you process that is an entirely different thing which is completely different from from somethingness versus nothingness which are two separate things. I mean how does one desiccate somethingness to be nothingness without removing all of what is somethingness?

 

[untermensche]

Not the same leaf.

It doesn't have to be entirely different, just different.