Is Student Debt a Crime Against America's Future?

[RVonse]

But not all jobs requiring a college education are high paying. Yet we need well qualified teachers and social workers, the two careers that leap to mind.

The other reason that making the cost of a college education affordable—which means free for a lot of people—is that fewer students are going to graduate school—meaning fewer of them will be qualified to be college professors, should they desire to pursue a life in academia, where remuneration varies wildly.

So who will teach our future doctors, lawyers, architects, engineers, nurses, teachers, etc?

.

The market should determine the jobs worth doing and worth spending money for a high cost education. Because if a college degree does not produce enough value for that professional to pay it off, it certainly would not have enough value for a lower uneducated labor worker to help pay it off for them. Those jobs that aren't worth the price of their degree shouldn't be done or sought after in the first place nor should anyone be paying for someone else's education. I did not even expect my parents to pay for my education.

So who should teach children?

Who should work with individuals and families who need extra help because of poverty, disability, old age, mental illness, etc.? Who should do the job of social workers?

If the market won't allow those wages to be high enough for jobs crucial to society, then government steps in as it does today. For the most part, grade school teachers and social workers are government workers (as it should be). We could then debate whether or not those wages are high enough but the real question to answer is what society is politically willing to pay them. Because either their wages have to be set high enough by the government or no one will become a social worker that requires an expensive degree.

 

[RVonse]

Really? Railroad workers and truck drivers don’t need doctors and nurses? Don’t need dentists?

Of course we need doctors, nurses, and dentists which is why our economy prices their wages so high. A doctor making $300-400k/year should be easily able to afford to pay for his/her degree and/or college loan needed to become a doctor. That same doctor should not have to ask nor demand for a garbage collector making $40k/year to help him pay for that same degree.

 

[RVonse]

Whether or not a college educated person earns the same or more than a non-college educated worker depends on a number of factors. I know college educated people who earn less than plumbers or electricians.

If someone earns more, they should pay more in taxes, regardless of source of income. If they earn less, they should pay less, regardless of the source of income. Tax rates, if they vary, should be tied to the amount of income, not the source.

I agree with the progressive income tax but I also agree with how FICA tax is handled. Generally speaking, people who will not collect social security later in life (railroad and/or government work) are not required to pay into FICA tax. In this same spirit, non-college educated workers should not have to bear any of the tax burden (or otherwise) for college degrees only benefiting those higher value workers. Its just not fair to those people. Because in the final analysis, everything that is free is paid by people who work.

In the same spirit, it is not fair non- farmers have to pay taxes to support farmers, or childless people pay taxes to school children, etc….

Moreover, education benefits society in general, so taxpayers do benefit.

Finally, since money is fungible, how on earth would you be able to insure some group’s taxes do not end supporting this?

Ok, I think we both agree that higher education does benefit society in general no argument. I just don't think it is fair for people with Phd's and doctors all to be sponging off uneducated people working just as hard but making far less. Yes, I am not a farmer paying for the farmers and also paying for school districts, but those farmers and those people with kids are not an order of magnitude wealthier then I am (in general).

 

[RVonse]

Finally, since money is fungible, how on earth would you be able to insure some group’s taxes do not end supporting this?

It would be pretty simple for the colleges just to issue something similar to a W2 statement to the IRS showing who graduated and who owes the government for their school. That would target only the people who tangibly benefited from that college.

 

[Toni]

Really? Railroad workers and truck drivers don’t need doctors and nurses? Don’t need dentists?

Of course we need doctors, nurses, and dentists which is why our economy prices their wages so high. A doctor making $300-400k/year should be easily able to afford to pay for his/her degree and/or college loan needed to become a doctor. That same doctor should not have to ask nor demand for a garbage collector making $40k/year to help him pay for that same degree.

Really? How much in taxes does someone earning $40K/year pay, as a percentage of their earnings?

How much in taxes does someone earning $300K pay as a percentage of their earnings?

What about all the loan forgiveness given to various businesses?

No one pays taxes that go into special little cubbies marked My contribution to student debt forgiveness or My contribution to the Highway system or My contribution to the military, etc.

The tax system in the US is progressive, albeit less progressive than it should be.

 

[Toni]

Whether or not a college educated person earns the same or more than a non-college educated worker depends on a number of factors. I know college educated people who earn less than plumbers or electricians.

If someone earns more, they should pay more in taxes, regardless of source of income. If they earn less, they should pay less, regardless of the source of income. Tax rates, if they vary, should be tied to the amount of income, not the source.

I agree with the progressive income tax but I also agree with how FICA tax is handled. Generally speaking, people who will not collect social security later in life (railroad and/or government work) are not required to pay into FICA tax. In this same spirit, non-college educated workers should not have to bear any of the tax burden (or otherwise) for college degrees only benefiting those higher value workers. Its just not fair to those people. Because in the final analysis, everything that is free is paid by people who work.

In the same spirit, it is not fair non- farmers have to pay taxes to support farmers, or childless people pay taxes to school children, etc….

Moreover, education benefits society in general, so taxpayers do benefit.

Finally, since money is fungible, how on earth would you be able to insure some group’s taxes do not end supporting this?

Ok, I think we both agree that higher education does benefit society in general no argument. I just don't think it is fair for people with Phd's and doctors all to be sponging off uneducated people working just as hard but making far less. Yes, I am not a farmer paying for the farmers and also paying for school districts, but those farmers and those people with kids are not an order of magnitude wealthier then I am (in general).

How do you figure that doctors are sponging off of uneducated people?

 

[laughing dog]

Finally, since money is fungible, how on earth would you be able to insure some group’s taxes do not end supporting this?

It would be pretty simple for the colleges just to issue something similar to a W2 statement to the IRS showing who graduated and who owes the government for their school. That would target only the people who tangibly benefited from that college.

How would you know that only taxes from the targeted group go to fund that program?

 

[laughing dog]

Whether or not a college educated person earns the same or more than a non-college educated worker depends on a number of factors. I know college educated people who earn less than plumbers or electricians.

If someone earns more, they should pay more in taxes, regardless of source of income. If they earn less, they should pay less, regardless of the source of income. Tax rates, if they vary, should be tied to the amount of income, not the source.

I agree with the progressive income tax but I also agree with how FICA tax is handled. Generally speaking, people who will not collect social security later in life (railroad and/or government work) are not required to pay into FICA tax. In this same spirit, non-college educated workers should not have to bear any of the tax burden (or otherwise) for college degrees only benefiting those higher value workers. Its just not fair to those people. Because in the final analysis, everything that is free is paid by people who work.

In the same spirit, it is not fair non- farmers have to pay taxes to support farmers, or childless people pay taxes to school children, etc….

Moreover, education benefits society in general, so taxpayers do benefit.

Finally, since money is fungible, how on earth would you be able to insure some group’s taxes do not end supporting this?

Ok, I think we both agree that higher education does benefit society in general no argument. I just don't think it is fair for people with Phd's and doctors all to be sponging off uneducated people working just as hard but making far less. Yes, I am not a farmer paying for the farmers and also paying for school districts, but those farmers and those people with kids are not an order of magnitude wealthier then I am (in general).

Are you kidding me? The median wealth of a commercial farmer is around $3million which is a lot more than most PH.Ds.

 

[bilby]

Of course we need doctors, nurses, and dentists which is why our economy prices their wages so high.

Nurses in the US get high wages?

Since when??

Could you give us a specific example of this happening, please?

 

[bilby]

That would target only the people who tangibly benefited from that college.

Still you're going with the nonsense that the "tangible benefit" of education goes only (or even mostly) to the student.

You genuinely believe that a degree is just a means to obtain higher wages, don't you? Like a certificate that just says "Please pay the bearer more money than you pay anyone else who does the same job".

If you don't understand what education is, or how it benefits society as a whole, then it's not surprising that you are full of unimaginably foolish and harmful suggestions and policies regarding how it should be funded.

 

[RVonse]

Finally, since money is fungible, how on earth would you be able to insure some group’s taxes do not end supporting this?

It would be pretty simple for the colleges just to issue something similar to a W2 statement to the IRS showing who graduated and who owes the government for their school. That would target only the people who tangibly benefited from that college.

How would you know that only taxes from the targeted group go to fund that program?

You wouldn't. But under my original assumption, the government would be paying free college for everyone. Meaning that those extra tax funds would be contributing to your college tuition because the government would be paying that for you and anyone else who graduated.

If you are worried about federal government co-mingling funds, everything they do is co-mingled anyway including using social security FICA funds to fight wars.

 

[laughing dog]

Finally, since money is fungible, how on earth would you be able to insure some group’s taxes do not end supporting this?

It would be pretty simple for the colleges just to issue something similar to a W2 statement to the IRS showing who graduated and who owes the government for their school. That would target only the people who tangibly benefited from that college.

How would you know that only taxes from the targeted group go to fund that program?

You wouldn't. But under my original assumption, the government would be paying free college for everyone. Meaning that those extra tax funds would be contributing to your college tuition because the government would be paying that for you and anyone else who graduated.

If you are worried about federal government co-mingling funds, everything they do is co-mingled anyway including using social security FICA funds to fight wars.

I am not worried about anything. But if you recognize that everything is mingled together, then you are acknowledge that everyone will end up paying for your plan. Which means those who do not take advantage of the plan will pay taxes that end up funding your plan.