• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Is the Devil Intelligent?

S

SLD

Contributor
Joined
Feb 25, 2001
Messages
5,120
Location
Birmingham, Alabama
Basic Beliefs
Freethinker
I pose this rather simple question because it perplexes me. Throughout Christian literature and thought, the devil is described as very intelligent, or so it seems. He isn’t omniscient necessarily, although maybe he is. He’s definitely smarter than the human characters he meets - except in an occasional song about fiddle contests.

But if he is, in serious Christian thought, very intelligent, why then does he rebel against god?

He is challenging the creator himself. Openly defying the omnipotent god. What logical reasoning could he have for doing so? Is it as Milton said, better to reign in hell, than to serve in heaven?

His logic makes no sense to me.
 
God and Satan were buddies until the bromance went sour. Satan got kicked out of the godly heave and since then has been obsessed with thwarting god..

KInd of the like the Barnes family vs the Ewings on the old Dallas soap opera.
 
SLD said:
I pose this rather simple question because it perplexes me. Throughout Christian literature and thought, the devil is described as very intelligent, or so it seems. He isn’t omniscient necessarily, although maybe he is. He’s definitely smarter than the human characters he meets - except in an occasional song about fiddle contests.

But if he is, in serious Christian thought, very intelligent, why then does he rebel against god?

He is challenging the creator himself. Openly defying the omnipotent god. What logical reasoning could he have for doing so? Is it as Milton said, better to reign in hell, than to serve in heaven?

His logic makes no sense to me.
Click to expand...
To me, the Satan story is pretty much a retelling of the earlier story of Prometheus in Greek mythology. Prometheus brought fire to humans which pissed off Zeus who then punished Prometheus and humanity. In the Bible, Satan (Lucifer) brought 'light' to humans through enticing Eve to eat fruit of the 'tree of knowledge'. God punished Satan and humanity.
 
Last edited:
SLD said:
I pose this rather simple question because it perplexes me. Throughout Christian literature and thought, the devil is described as very intelligent, or so it seems. He isn’t omniscient necessarily, although maybe he is. He’s definitely smarter than the human characters he meets - except in an occasional song about fiddle contests.

But if he is, in serious Christian thought, very intelligent, why then does he rebel against god?

He is challenging the creator himself. Openly defying the omnipotent god. What logical reasoning could he have for doing so? Is it as Milton said, better to reign in hell, than to serve in heaven?

His logic makes no sense to me.
Click to expand...
He is generally portrayed as clever. But very clever people can still fall into the trap of conceit, I have observed.

Then, too, it is maybe dependent on what you think Satan's goals actually were. If he was trying to usurp God's authority and rule the universe solitarily, that might indicate folly on his part. But if his intent was merely to mar what God had made, and condemn countless billions of souls to torment that would otherwise have been saved, even Christian prophecy confirms that he has already won. Those souls are damned, and God himself is utterly powerless to rescue even a single one of them. They will burn in utter torment for eternity. Even if Satan is burning with them by the end, maybe it is worth it to him to have sucessfully overpowered God's original, supposedly benevolent but very authoritarian, intent for us all. Looked at from that perspective, Satan won the war the second he rebelled. This is actually a major reason that, though I used to be a more ideological Christian, I never treated the concepts of Satan or hell very seriously, preferring the universalist perspective of the early church fathers.
 
Th Jewish scriptures in part is an ethnic wisdom literature. The idea being to see yourself as the characters in the play. Just lie we do when we read Shakespeare.
 
SLD said:
Throughout Christian literature and thought, the devil is described as very intelligent, or so it seems.
Click to expand...

May well be, but he’s not that great of a fiddle player.
 
SLD said:
I pose this rather simple question because it perplexes me. Throughout Christian literature and thought, the devil is described as very intelligent, or so it seems. He isn’t omniscient necessarily, although maybe he is. He’s definitely smarter than the human characters he meets - except in an occasional song about fiddle contests.

But if he is, in serious Christian thought, very intelligent, why then does he rebel against god?
Click to expand...
Pride, vanity, jealousy. You know, like God in the narrative of The Fall.

Any number of reasons one can sell a heel.
SLD said:
He is challenging the creator himself. Openly defying the omnipotent god. What logical reasoning could he have for doing so? Is it as Milton said, better to reign in hell, than to serve in heaven?

His logic makes no sense to me.
Click to expand...
To quote The Devil's Advocate, `Look at the source'. The Christian fables don't need to make sense. Heck, they make up almost the entire narrative of Satan (ain't in the Tanakh). They implant him in the narrative of The Fall. They are trying to create a reason for evil (or bad stuff), also a suicide religious epic surrounded by death. Cults have to be like cults.
 
DBT said:
Tigers! said:
DBT said:
Satan and the rebellion in Heaven appears to be a mistranslation of Isaiah 14:12.
Click to expand...
Link or citation?
Click to expand...

Just consider who the author is referring to. It's not Satan.
Click to expand...
A mistranslation is where there is doubt as to what we have written is congruent with that the author intended.
Saying you disagree is not of its self evidence of mistranslation. How do you know it is a mistranslation rather than just your opinion?
 
Tigers! said:
DBT said:
Tigers! said:
DBT said:
Satan and the rebellion in Heaven appears to be a mistranslation of Isaiah 14:12.
Click to expand...
Link or citation?
Click to expand...

Just consider who the author is referring to. It's not Satan.
Click to expand...
How do you know that? If not Satan then to whom is the author referring?
Click to expand...

" A cursory reading of the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah reveals that the “morning star” spoken of in Isaiah 14:12 is referring to Nebuchadnezzar, the wicked King of Babylon, and not to Satan. The prophet explicitly names the king of Babylon as the subject of the prophecy.

“That thou shall take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, ‘How hath the oppressor ceased, the golden city ceased!’” (Isaiah 14:4)

Throughout this and the preceding chapter of Isaiah, the prophet foretells the rise and fall of this arrogant Babylonian king who would use his unbridled power to plunder Jerusalem and destroy its Temple but, ultimately, would suffer a cataclysmic downfall. In 14:12, Nebuchadnezzar is compared to the planet Venus whose light is still visible in the morning, yet vanishes with the rise of the sun. Like the light of Venus, Nebuchadnezzar’s reign shone brilliantly for a short time, yet, as the prophets foretold, it was eventually overshadowed by the nation of Israel whose light endured and outlived this arrogant king who tormented and exiled her."

Who Is Satan? - Outreach Judaism

Question: Dear Rabbi Singer, When you were in Buffalo, NY in November of ‘96, during the extended question and answer time, you were asked your view on angels and specifically about Satan. I was astounded at your answer and was more astounded that the other rabbis present did not step into the...
outreachjudaism.org
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom