Is the doctrine of hell something to be ashamed of?

[Unknown Soldier]

I am neither proud nor ashamed of it.

Are other Christians ashamed of it? And since you're not ashamed of your belief in hell, would you have told Eddie that his Jewish mother went to hell?

Either it is true or it is not.

It isn't true. So let's discuss if Christian apologists are too ashamed of their belief in hell to tell people that their non-Christian deceased loved-ones are there in hell.

And while we're at it, I may have cancer. If it kills me, then will I go to hell?

The cancer may be the cause of your death but it does not cause you to go to hell. Your attitudes, behaviour, character etc. are the determinative factor in your eternal destination.

Concerning Eddie's mother - You seem to put a great store of telling truth as do I. So if I was asked about where his mother went I would say so.

Well, like Frank, you're dancing around my questions. Please answer them:
Since you're not ashamed of your belief in hell, would you have told Eddie that his Jewish mother went to hell? Yes or no--why or why not?
I may have cancer. If it kills me, then will I go to hell? Yes or no--why or why not?

 

[Tigers!]

I am neither proud nor ashamed of it.

Are other Christians ashamed of it? And since you're not ashamed of your belief in hell, would you have told Eddie that his Jewish mother went to hell?

Either it is true or it is not.

It isn't true. So let's discuss if Christian apologists are too ashamed of their belief in hell to tell people that their non-Christian deceased loved-ones are there in hell.

And while we're at it, I may have cancer. If it kills me, then will I go to hell?

The cancer may be the cause of your death but it does not cause you to go to hell. Your attitudes, behaviour, character etc. are the determinative factor in your eternal destination.

Concerning Eddie's mother - You seem to put a great store of telling truth as do I. So if I was asked about where his mother went I would say so.

Well, like Frank, you're dancing around my questions. Please answer them:
Since you're not ashamed of your belief in hell, would you have told Eddie that his Jewish mother went to hell? Yes or no--why or why not?
I may have cancer. If it kills me, then will I go to hell? Yes or no--why or why not?

See post 52.

 

[Tigers!]

Do lifeguards only save drowning swimmers that want to be saved?

You may not call out to the lifeguards if in trouble. They may not notice you otherwise.
I do not know if there are any accounts of people who have resisted lifeguards attempts at saving.

Well, they exist. Here's Richard Carrier describing exactly such a situation:

Back in my days as a flight-deck firefighter, when our ship’s helicopter was on rescue missions, we had to stand around in our gear in case of a crash. There was usually very little to do, so we told stories. One I heard was about a rescue swimmer. She had to pull a family out of the water from a capsized boat, but by the time the chopper got there, it appeared everyone had drowned except the mother, who was for that reason shedding her life vest and trying to drown herself. The swimmer dove in to rescue her, but she kicked and screamed and yelled to let her die. She even gave the swimmer a whopping black eye. But the swimmer said to hell with that, I’m bringing you in! And she did, enduring her curses and blows all the way.

Later, it turned out that one of the victim’s children, her daughter, had survived. She had drifted pretty far from the wreck, but the rescue team pulled her out, and the woman who had beaten the crap out of her rescuer apologized and thanked her for saving her against her will. Everyone in my group agreed the rescue swimmer had done the right thing, and we all would have done the same—because that is what a loving, caring being does. It follows that if God is a loving being, he will do no less for us. In the real world, kind people don’t act like some stubborn, pouting God who abandons the drowning simply because they don’t want to be helped. They act like this rescue swimmer. They act like us.

So a perfect stranger insists on saving a woman from death against her will. But God won't do the same to save us from Hell unless we ask politely first.

And yet if God did insist upon saving you against your will you would complain about that too.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Well, like Frank, you're dancing around my questions. Please answer them:
Since you're not ashamed of your belief in hell, would you have told Eddie that his Jewish mother went to hell? Yes or no--why or why not?
I may have cancer. If it kills me, then will I go to hell? Yes or no--why or why not?

See post 52.

You didn't answer my questions there or anywhere else. I will move on, then.

 

[masterpeastheater]

My question is...how does someone actually believe in 'THE DOCTRINE OF HELL" without
ending up in a padded cell? I mean, that shit is that heavy if you actually THINK about it.

 

[Tigers!]

My question is...how does someone actually believe in 'THE DOCTRINE OF HELL" without
ending up in a padded cell? I mean, that shit is that heavy if you actually THINK about it.

Yes it is heavy going.

 

[steve_bank]

Inferno (Dante) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Inferno (Italian: [iɱˈfɛrno]; Italian for "Hell") is the first part of Italian writer Dante Alighieri's 14th-century epic poem Divine Comedy. It is followed by Purgatorio and Paradiso. The Inferno describes Dante's journey through Hell, guided by the ancient Roman poet Virgil. In the poem, Hell is depicted as nine concentric circles of torment located within the Earth; it is the "realm ... of those who have rejected spiritual values by yielding to bestial appetites or violence, or by perverting their human intellect to fraud or malice against their fellowmen".[1]

As an allegory, the Divine Comedy represents the journey of the soul toward God, with the Inferno describing the recognition and rejection of sin.[2]

I am not well read in literature, as I understand it Date did influencee popular imaginations of Hell.

Is The Divine Comedy / Dante’s Inferno a biblically accurate description of Heaven and Hell? | GotQuestions.org

Is The Divine Comedy / Dante’s Inferno a biblically accurate description of Heaven and Hell? Is there such a place as Purgatory? Are there different degrees of suffering in Hell and different levels of Heaven?

www.gotquestions.org

Written by Dante Alighieri between 1308 and 1321, The Divine Comedy is widely considered the central epic poem of Italian literature. A brilliantly written allegory, filled with symbolism and pathos, it is certainly one of the classics of all time. The poem is written in the first person as Dante describes his imaginative journey through the three realms of the dead: Inferno (hell); Purgatorio (Purgatory); and Paradiso (heaven).

The philosophy of the poem is a mixture of the Bible, Roman Catholicism, mythology, and medieval tradition. Where Dante draws on his knowledge of the Bible, the poem is truthful and insightful. Where he draws on the other sources, the poem departs from truth.

One extra-biblical source Dante drew upon was Islamic tradition (Hadiths) as depicted in Muhammed’s “Night Journey.” According to one scholar, Islamic eschatology has exercised “an extraordinary influence on Chinese and Christian thought. Among numerous popular eschatological works written by Christians, Dante’s Divina Commedia is an example of Islamic influence” (Islam by Solomon Nigosian, Crucible, 1987, page 152).

In fairness to Dante, however, it should be noted that his work is intended to be literary, not theological. It does reflect a deep yearning to understand the mysteries of life and death and, as such, has generated tremendous interest over the centuries, remaining extremely popular even today.

Jahannam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In Islam, the place of punishment for unbelievers and other evildoers in the afterlife is an "integral part of Islamic theology".[1] It is often called by the proper name Jahannam (Arabic: جهنم, jahannam), but other names include "the fire" (النار‎, al-nar),[2] "blazing fire" (جحيم‎, jaheem),[3] "that which breaks to pieces" (حطمة‎ hutamah),[4] "the abyss" (هاوية‎, haawiyah),[5] "the blaze" (سعير‎, sa’eer),[6] "place of burning" (سقر‎ Saqar), which are also often used as the names of different gates to hell.[7] It is also sometimes referred to as the Islamic hell.[1]

The punishments there are carried out in accordance with the degree of sin one has done during their life.[8] Just like Jannah (the Islamic heavens), the common belief holds that Jahannam coexists with the temporal world.[9]

The importance of Hell in Islamic doctrine is that it is an essential element of the Day of Judgment, which in turn is one of the six articles of faith (belief in God, angels, books, prophets, the Day of Resurrection and providence) "by which the Muslim faith is traditionally defined."[10] Suffering in hell is physical, psychological and spiritual, and varies according to the sins of the condemned,[11] and its excruciating pain and horror described in the Quran often parallels the pleasure and delights of heaven (Jannah).[12][13]

It is widely believed Hell has many levels (each one more severe than the one above it),[14] the Quran specifically refers to "seven gates", and that "for every gate there shall be a specific party" of sinners.[15][16][17][18] Some Islamic scholars believe that hell is an eternal destination; it will not be destroyed and its inhabitants will reside there forever.[19][20][21]

 

[James Brown]

Do lifeguards only save drowning swimmers that want to be saved?

You may not call out to the lifeguards if in trouble. They may not notice you otherwise.
I do not know if there are any accounts of people who have resisted lifeguards attempts at saving.

Well, they exist. Here's Richard Carrier describing exactly such a situation:

Back in my days as a flight-deck firefighter, when our ship’s helicopter was on rescue missions, we had to stand around in our gear in case of a crash. There was usually very little to do, so we told stories. One I heard was about a rescue swimmer. She had to pull a family out of the water from a capsized boat, but by the time the chopper got there, it appeared everyone had drowned except the mother, who was for that reason shedding her life vest and trying to drown herself. The swimmer dove in to rescue her, but she kicked and screamed and yelled to let her die. She even gave the swimmer a whopping black eye. But the swimmer said to hell with that, I’m bringing you in! And she did, enduring her curses and blows all the way.

Later, it turned out that one of the victim’s children, her daughter, had survived. She had drifted pretty far from the wreck, but the rescue team pulled her out, and the woman who had beaten the crap out of her rescuer apologized and thanked her for saving her against her will. Everyone in my group agreed the rescue swimmer had done the right thing, and we all would have done the same—because that is what a loving, caring being does. It follows that if God is a loving being, he will do no less for us. In the real world, kind people don’t act like some stubborn, pouting God who abandons the drowning simply because they don’t want to be helped. They act like this rescue swimmer. They act like us.

So a perfect stranger insists on saving a woman from death against her will. But God won't do the same to save us from Hell unless we ask politely first.

And yet if God did insist upon saving you against your will you would complain about that too.

I would? How do you know that?

Does a toddler complain when his mother snatches him out of a busy street because he wasn't able to retrieve his ball? Maybe he does. Does the mother care if her toddler complains? Doesn't she save him from a grisly death anyway?

Did the woman in Richard Carrier's story complain about being rescued against her will after she learned more about the situation, that she still had a living daughter? No she didn't. Once she was enlightened, she thanked her rescuer.

Is it your position that God is unable to properly explain our situation to us regarding our eternal souls? That we have to rely on fallible humans to convey God's message by proxy, in which none of those humans can ever seem to agree on anything? Is your God such a bad communicator that millions of people are marched into Hell because God just didn't know what to say?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

My question is...how does someone actually believe in 'THE DOCTRINE OF HELL" without
ending up in a padded cell? I mean, that shit is that heavy if you actually THINK about it.

That's a very good question. I don't think that the large majority of Christians really believe that condemning a person to hell could possibly be just. Most Christians just go along with the idea of hell hoping that heaven is real even if hell isn't. That said, there are some sociopathic people that actually like the idea of hell.