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Is the Pope going to be quietly assassinated?

Don2 (Don1 Revised)

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The current Pope is pretty progressive for a high Catholic official. For a pope, he's pretty radical.

Most recent news:

He has enemies deep in the church who are very conservative. Anyone think they will get rid of him?

Of course, one can find crazies everywhere, but here's an example from 2021:
Last week, a further-right critic, the Rev. James Altman of La Crosse, Wis., posted a video calling for Francis to be killed. Altman’s bishop barred him from saying Mass in 2021 after he criticized coronavirus vaccines and said that victims of lynchings were criminals and that Catholics cannot vote Democratic. Some conservatives took to social media in recent days to ostracize Altman, but others have cheered him on. Altman also drew attention in September with a video saying Francis is not a legitimate pope.

You have to imagine that the crazies are probably growing in numbers now.
 
There has always been RCC palace intrigue and power plays. I don't think they do poisoning and stabbings in a dark corridor any more.
 
Wikipedia has a cool article called List of popes who died violently.
A lot of them were martyred by the pre-Christian emperors, including Clement I, who, in the year 99, was said to have been dumped in the ocean with an anchor around his neck. (Remember, if a big fish swallowed him, he could still be alive.)
Many of the death accounts are 'alleged', with the most common means of killing being poison, strangulation, and crucifixion. One died by the sword. John XII was allegedly killed in bed with a woman by the gal's husband (year 964.) Other accounts claim he died of a stroke, but those accounts were written by killjoys.
 
If it happens, it won't be a conspiracy of cardinals, it will be a lone wolf "zealot" heavily influenced by their rhetoric but impossible to trace back to them directly.

But some of those cardinals will see it as a just and miraculous judgement by god on a wicked bishopric, like the story of Arius on the john.
 
It was the last pope or the one before him who went in the other direction.

He purged liberal priests from Catholic colleges and said no more social activism. Paraphrasing, if promoting growth of the church in an oppressive dictatorship meant an alliance with the regime so be it. Don't make waves.

It is the same old RCC that we have grown to 'love' so to speak.

What do you expect from a church of celibate sexually frustrated and inhibited men.
 
It was the last pope or the one before him who went in the other direction.

He purged liberal priests from Catholic colleges and said no more social activism. Paraphrasing, if promoting growth of the church in an oppressive dictatorship meant an alliance with the regime so be it. Don't make waves.

It is the same old RCC that we have grown to 'love' so to speak.

What do you expect from a church of celibate sexually frustrated and inhibited men.
We can at least now hope that this more progressive pope daddy will allow priests to marry before too long. He's already blessed gay partnerships, so maybe next he will give his blessings to the gay priests that want an open committed relationship. If the RCs want to keep and attract new members, the infallible leader will have to be more progressive, especially when it comes to social change. Francis certainly seems up to the job, based on many of his declarations or whatever they are called. Executive orders, maybe?/s Anyway.....humans aren't going to give up mythology, but there is so much competition, that the myths must become more enlightened in order to maintain stability and growth. Go Pope!
 
On that I agree.

IMO the RCC would cure a lot of its problems by allowing priests to marry.
 
Discussion of Popes who were also sinners reminded me of the amazing story of Marozia di Roma -- lover of one Pope, mother of another, etc.

exaggerated? said:
Marozia di Roma.

If you’ve heard Marozia’s name at all, it was probably as a footnote to the legend of Pope Joan, a fable about a woman who crossdressed and became pope, only to be found out when she went into labor and gave birth. Marozia and her family may have inspired the legend, but much like Vlad Dracula, the true story is far more interesting than the legend.

Marozia was lover, mother, grandmother, great-grandmother, and great-great-grandmother of popes. She forged an empire with little more than her wiles and her thighs, and her descendants would rule Rome for centuries, making and breaking popes, and influencing the politics and history of the Western world.

Marozia was the daughter of the senator Teofilatto and his wife, Theodora. Her father was a crony of Pope Sergius III and quite possibly the most powerful man in Rome. Luitprand of Cremona says that “from her early youth, [Marozia] had been inflamed by the fires of Venus”; Marozia set her sights on none other than the pope himself. She flashed him her tits, and soon Sergius III was shacked up with her in happily unwedded bliss. Marozia gave birth to a son, Giovanni, who was widely believed to have been fathered by Sergius III1.

Sergius III, who was probably about the same age as Marozia’s father, died in 911. Marozia’s parents married her off to a soldier-of-fortune, Alberico, who a few years earlier had killed the duke of Spoleto and usurped his lands and title. He was immensely powerful and just as ambitious as Marozia2 and together they had a small pack of children.

Meanwhile, her mother Theodora became enamoured of a deacon and, “captivated by his handsome appearance”, she seduced him and compelled him to come to Rome. “Theodora, like a harlot,” Luitprand tells us, “fearing she would have few opportunities to bed her sweetheart, forced him to abandon his bishopric and take for himself – O monstrous crime! – the Papacy of Rome.” Her lover became Pope John X in 914.

Marozia and Alberico schemed to take more power for themselves. They got on the bad side of Pope John X, who drove Alberico from the city, and shortly afterward Alberico was murdered by Romans who suspected him of conspiring with the Hungarians. Pope John X forced Marozia to look at the mutilated body of her husband and take heed; that just seems to have pissed her off.

Marozia turned right around and married Guido of Tuscany in 925. They moved against Pope John X, seized him and threw him into prison, where he was then smothered. Marozia then hand-picked a couple of guys to be pope for the next couple of years until her own son, Giovanni, was old enough to put on the funny hat and become Pope John XI3.

Her husband Guido having died in 929, and with Marozia not content with merely being a dowager duchess, a dowager marchesa, and the mother of the pope, she decided to go for broke and become queen of Italy. She became engaged to King Hugo of Italy, a marriage that was technically illegal since his half-brother was her deceased second husband, Guido. But that’s what having a pope in the family is good for.

Pope John XI presided over his mother’s wedding in 932 at the Castel Sant’Angelo, but the celebrations were marred by a conflict between Hugo and Marozia’s teenage son, Alberico II 4. During the ceremony, Alberico was holding a bowl of water for Hugo to wash his hands, but spilled a little of it. Hugo slapped him in the face and called him “clumsy”, and the offended Alberico fled the wedding and incited a riot in the streets. The Romans rallied behind him and attacked the Castel Sant’Angelo. Hugo bravely abandoned his wife and shimmied out the window on a rope, leaving Marozia and Pope John XI behind. Alberico and his army of angry Romans drove out Hugo and his men by throwing sticks, stones, shoes, calzones, and anything else at hand at their heads. Eighteen-year-old Alberico II imprisoned his mother and brother and declared himself “glorious prince and senator of all the Romans.” He also added insult to injury by banging his stepsister Alda, King Hugo’s daughter who had also been left behind when her father fled Rome 5.

Marozia died in prison. Her son Pope John XI was allowed to perform purely spiritual duties until his own death in 935. Alberico ably ruled Rome until he died in 954, and on his deathbed he nominated his own son, Ottaviano, as pope.

Ottaviano, son of Alberico II and Alda, became Pope John XII, and continued the proud family tradition by becoming one of the most depraved popes in history. A small sampling of the charges against him in the Patrologia Latina include: ordaining a bishop in a horse stable, blinding and then killing his confessor, castrating and then killing a subdeacon, fornicating with various women including his own niece, turning the sacred palace into a brothel, invoking the names of pagan gods, and toasting to the devil with wine, among many, many others. He died while busily breaking Commandments Six and Nine with a married woman; her husband walked in on them and brained him with a hammer.

Several more popes of this family were to follow, but I definitely don’t want to forget Marozia’s great-great-grandson, Pope Benedict IX, the so-called “child pope” (he was very young when he became pope, probably in his mid-teens). Benedict IX was the nephew of popes Benedict VIII and John XIX. By the time he became pope in 1033, the papal throne was practically a family heirloom. Benedict IX spent his reign snorting blow off the pert asses of whores, throwing wild bisexual orgies in the Lateran palace, and raping female pilgrims 6. He surprised everyone by falling in love with his own cousin and desiring to marry her and produce a family of little deviants. Since a pope can’t exactly get married, Benedict IX sold the papacy to his godfather, but later regretted the decision and tried to forcibly retake his old position several times. He is the only pope to have been pope on three seperate ocassions, and the only pope to have sold the papacy 7.

Such was the legacy of Marozia, who’s descendants made and unmade emperors and kings and guided the souls of millions.

Footnotes:

1. Sergius III’s other accomplishment was digging up the mutilated corpse of Pope Formosus, putting it on trial, finding him guilty posthumously, and beheading him.
2. No minor achievement.
3. As the son of Marozia and Pope Sergius III, Pope John XI is the only illegitimate son of a pope to become pope himself.
4. The eldest of several sons she’d had with her first husband, Alberico.
5. And you thought your teenager was an annoying little shit because he plays video games in the basement all day. It can always get worse.
6. He was born in the wrong era. He should’ve been a mulleted 1980s rock star.
7. Peter Damian records a delightful story that Benedict IX, “a demon from hell in the guise of a priest”, was so evil that instead of dying he mutated into a donkey-bear-man creature cursed to haunt the world until the Last Judgment.
 

‘Anti-pope.’ ‘Blasphemous.’ Criticism of Francis comes in strident terms.​


VATICAN CITY — Pope Francis is facing some of the most vociferous objection to papal authority in decades, in language that might have stunned past popes.

German Cardinal Gerhard Müller derided the pope’s new guidance allowing priests to bless same-sex couples as “blasphemy.” One Italian priest found himself rapidly excommunicated after he referred to Francis in his New Year’s Eve homily as an “anti-Pope usurper” with a “cadaverous gaze, into nothingness.” Still holding on to his title is Italian Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò, who recently dubbed the pontiff a servant of Satan and announced a seminary to train priests free from the “deviations of Bergoglio” (Francis’s name before becoming pope).
...
 
"VATICAN CITY — Pope Francis is facing some of the most vociferous objection to papal authority in decades, in language that might have stunned past popes."

Luckily for certain people,
The modern popes are less inclined to respond by having them chained naked in a dungeon for the rest of their short lives.
Tom
 
Strange that a pope who believes in a glorious afterlife would take steps to avoid being assassinated and hide behind the Vacant walls protected by armed guards.

I would think martyrdom in the cause of Jesus would ensure nationhood.

What happened to trust in god?
 
One's trust in God may be the measure of one's faith in His existence.....which when tested, may come to very little.
Or maybe recognition that eternity will be the same length, regardless of when it starts. But you might still have things you want to accomplish beforehand.
Tom
 
One's trust in God may be the measure of one's faith in His existence.....which when tested, may come to very little.
Or maybe recognition that eternity will be the same length, regardless of when it starts. But you might still have things you want to accomplish beforehand.
Tom

Yet the same person may be heart broken when a loved one dies, as if it's a tragedy that they are now in heaven and in the presence of the Lord?
 
One's trust in God may be the measure of one's faith in His existence.....which when tested, may come to very little.
Or maybe recognition that eternity will be the same length, regardless of when it starts. But you might still have things you want to accomplish beforehand.
Tom
Yet eternity makes all accomplishments meaningless. Of course, this is from eternity's viewpoint; from a human perspective more accomplishments are good and meaningful.
 
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