Is this legal?

[braces_for_impact]

It's no big deal. But having a fit about it is probably one of the reasons a lot of people consider atheists to be uptight and not pleasant to be around with that huge chip on their shoulder.

Huh. They always told me it's because I'm a prick.

 

[Sajara]

And I know it is hard to see, but there is a great big cross on the sign and in front of the building, so you do have to pass by these things to vote.

I know it isn't a huge deal, but I agree with laughing dog. As they would say in the business world, "It just isn't good business..."

 

[ksen]

But it is the State's fault for choosing the house of worship as a polling place? They have schools in the area that I'm sure they could have used, but whatever.

The only problem with that is that it's a Tuesday and school is in session. Also, at least in my area, if you go onto the school campus you have to sign in at the front desk, get a name badge, and sign out and turn the badge in when you leave. I imagine that'd be a logistical nightmare to run all the voters showing up to vote through that.

I have never seen a prayer banner or any other religious trappings where I go to vote so I don't see that as being similar at all.

And you may be right here...they may have removed all religious paraphernalia. I didn't go into this voting center (this one was just near my work). Would you have a problem if there were religious trappings hanging right over the voting booth?

Yes.

 

[doubtingt]

But it is the State's fault for choosing the house of worship as a polling place? They have schools in the area that I'm sure they could have used, but whatever.

The problem with schools is that unlike churches they serve an important societal function, so they are already full and in use during election days.
Plus, you'd have the problem of tons of adults descending upon a school and hysterical parents that think everyone wants to rape their kid wouldn't go for that.


The much bigger problem is the lack of access to polls due to people working, bad weather, long lines, etc.. Elections should be held over multiple days where all employees are required to have at least 1 of those days off (not just "sure, you can leave work if you really feel you need to"). Have the 2 days be on Sat and Sun (fuck God), This would also allow us to use public schools.

 

[Sajara]

But it is the State's fault for choosing the house of worship as a polling place? They have schools in the area that I'm sure they could have used, but whatever.

The problem with schools is that unlike churches they serve an important societal function, so they are already full and in use during election days.
Plus, you'd have the problem of tons of adults descending upon a school and hysterical parents that think everyone wants to rape their kid wouldn't go for that.


The much bigger problem is the lack of access to polls due to people working, bad weather, long lines, etc.. Elections should be held over multiple days where all employees are required to have at least 1 of those days off (not just "sure, you can leave work if you really feel you need to"). Have the 2 days be on Sat and Sun (fuck God), This would also allow us to use public schools.

Um...all schools in my state are closed today...always have been as far as I know. They do this specifically for voting to take place in the schools, which is why this makes a church as a polling place even more of an odd sight to see.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Um...all schools in my state are closed today...always have been as far as I know. They do this specifically for voting to take place in the schools, which is why this makes a church as a polling place even more of an odd sight to see.

Dude, high school football is an important thing. Why should some innocent and defenceless voter be forced to walk past the banner of a team that's about to play the one he supports just so that he can vote?

Perhaps that sort of thing would be acceptable in Nazi Germany, but this election is taking place in America.

This really isn't a legitimate issue.

 

[KeepTalking]

The problem with schools is that unlike churches they serve an important societal function, so they are already full and in use during election days.
Plus, you'd have the problem of tons of adults descending upon a school and hysterical parents that think everyone wants to rape their kid wouldn't go for that.


The much bigger problem is the lack of access to polls due to people working, bad weather, long lines, etc.. Elections should be held over multiple days where all employees are required to have at least 1 of those days off (not just "sure, you can leave work if you really feel you need to"). Have the 2 days be on Sat and Sun (fuck God), This would also allow us to use public schools.

Um...all schools in my state are closed today...always have been as far as I know. They do this specifically for voting to take place in the schools, which is why this makes a church as a polling place even more of an odd sight to see.

Schools are only closed statewide on election day in 10 states, in other states it may vary by district. I live in Illinois, one of those 10 states that close schools statewide, but we still have churches and other locations that serve as polling places. The lines would be a lot longer if they limited polling places to schools. There was no line at the Baptist Church this morning, and I was grateful for it. It's not my problem if the church wants to run the risk of God tossing lightning bolts at their building because they allowed an apostate like me in the lobby.

 

[Bronzeage]

So separation of church and state shouldn't be seen as a big deal?

And this isn't a gym...this is inside the church.

I assume all applicable Federal and State Electioneering laws are observed. After that, what is the concern? Is a church official asking people about their spiritual beliefs as they enter? What sort of intimidation is being exerted?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

It's got nothing to do with church and state.

How exactly not? It is a state vote inside a church?

Using facilities that meet all the necessary requirements (a large room, sufficient parking) is not an endorsement of the church whose building is being used. Are you really that offended if you see a building with a cross on it on the way to vote?

 

[whichphilosophy]

Whether or not it is legal is one issue. Whether it is a good idea or not is another. IMO in a secular world, voting on secular matters should not occur in places of religious worship. WTF should an orthodox Jew have to pass by a crucifix or a crescent in order to vote?

Would he care if he doesn't believe in Christianity? I doubt if more than a very few would care. Churches also rent out space for small markets etc. I doubt if many people are really bothered about what else a Church is used for.

 

[Jokodo]

But it is the State's fault for choosing the house of worship as a polling place? They have schools in the area that I'm sure they could have used, but whatever.

The problem with schools is that unlike churches they serve an important societal function, so they are already full and in use during election days.
Plus, you'd have the problem of tons of adults descending upon a school and hysterical parents that think everyone wants to rape their kid wouldn't go for that.


The much bigger problem is the lack of access to polls due to people working, bad weather, long lines, etc.. Elections should be held over multiple days where all employees are required to have at least 1 of those days off (not just "sure, you can leave work if you really feel you need to"). Have the 2 days be on Sat and Sun (fuck God), This would also allow us to use public schools.

Why do you have elections on week days in the first place? Can't you just move them to the nearest Sunday or something, like everyone else does?

 

[barbos]

I think Vampires could have a problem with voting at church.
And satanist probably, no?

 

[laughing dog]

Whether or not it is legal is one issue. Whether it is a good idea or not is another. IMO in a secular world, voting on secular matters should not occur in places of religious worship. WTF should an orthodox Jew have to pass by a crucifix or a crescent in order to vote?

Would he care if he doesn't believe in Christianity? I doubt if more than a very few would care.

Oh well, then why bother with the principle? I agree it is not a big deal, just like having "In God We Trust" on our currency, but that doesn't make it right.

 

[Sabine Grant]

So separation of church and state shouldn't be seen as a big deal?

And this isn't a gym...this is inside the church.

You would have to demonstrate that the use of a building otherwise owned and maintained by a religious group constitutes a breach of the Establishment Clause. Which I really cannot see here. A breach would be if the Staff in charge of the voting proceedings were to, in the exercise of their functions, conduct religious activities or proselytize.

And I know it is hard to see, but there is a great big cross on the sign and in front of the building, so you do have to pass by these things to vote.

When I drive or walk in my geographical area I will pass by several churches with boards loaded with scriptures and certainly crosses displayed in the front of the building. I do understand that such speech is protected under the First Amendment.Similarly, I may not be happy about the display of a giant Confederate Flag on a tall pole dominating the sight of the intersection between I-75 and I-4, but I do recognize that the owner's speech, owner of the property where the pole is planted, is protected under the First Amendment.

Further, I am certainly hoping that American voters as they exercise their right to vote remain focused on exercising that right while entering a polling station located in the said church rather than allow themselves to be emotionally upset because they will catch the sight of a "great big cross on the sign and in front of the building" and will "have to pass by those things".

I know it isn't a huge deal, but I agree with laughing dog. As they would say in the business world, "It just isn't good business..."

I am not sure how activist groups such as Americans United and FFR Foundation would build a case that due to the offensive nature of religious symbols displayed in the front of the building, offensive to non believers, buildings owned by religious groups should not be used as voting stations. Considering that the presence of such religious symbols in front of a religious building certainly does not prevent or obstruct voters from exercising their right to vote. Considering that a claim based on "it is offensive to me" is certainly not going to convince Supreme Court Justices that they are justified in declaring all and any building ,owned by any religious group, unfit for being voting/polling stations. Let alone any justification based on a demonstrated breach of the Establishment Clause.

 

[ZiprHead]

Considering churches don't pay any taxes, providing facilities for public use one day a year (or two years) is the least they should do.

 

[Sabine Grant]

Would he care if he doesn't believe in Christianity? I doubt if more than a very few would care.

Oh well, then why bother with the principle? I agree it is not a big deal, just like having "In God We Trust" on our currency, but that doesn't make it right.

The perception that the State is endorsing a specific religion as the State religion is what would be supporting an argument in favor of removing religious mentions/labels/imagery from any material provided by the State for public use. The main reason why the "In God we trust" opponents have so far failed to convince Justices that it should be removed from your currency is because the term "God" does not designate a specifically named religion. Same applying to the Pledge of Allegiance. Now, of course, most of us are aware that the actual intention behind the word "God" was to reflect Christianity versus other monotheistic religions. Further, by evoking one deity as "Under God" or " in God ...", it eliminates non monotheistic religions and it could be argued that the use of the term "God" is certainly not representative of a pluralistic vision of all religions represented in the US.

However, the argumentation would be to demonstrate that by the sole reason of any mention of any deity on your currency, the State still endorses the notion or belief that its role is to promote religion. However (again) it is the perception that the State endorses one specific religion as the State religion which constitutes an argumentation supporting the removal of the said mention/imagery/ religious label.

In effect the neutrality of the State (meaning a body who should never be involved in promoting religion) is still compromised any time it supplies, produces, exhibits material with religious content to be used by tax payers.

Any thoughts as to this thread being moved to the Church State Separation Forum?

 

[Malintent]

Seriously Tom? You don't see anything wrong with making a non-christian enter a house of worship to cast a vote on a government election?

It is not a house of worship for a non-christian... it's just a house... a silly house with big empty rooms.

 

[Juma]

Seriously Tom? You don't see anything wrong with making a non-christian enter a house of worship to cast a vote on a government election?

It is not a house of worship for a non-christian... it's just a house... a silly house with big empty rooms.

Would the headquarter for any politicsl party be ok? Or other highky ideological organisation?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

It is not a house of worship for a non-christian... it's just a house... a silly house with big empty rooms.

Would the headquarter for any politicsl party be ok? Or other highky ideological organisation?

Provided that they took all the signs down about their party and their candidate prior to election day so as not to be doing any political advertising while people are at the polls, that would be fine.

 

[laughing dog]

Seriously Tom? You don't see anything wrong with making a non-christian enter a house of worship to cast a vote on a government election?

It is not a house of worship for a non-christian... it's just a house... a silly house with big empty rooms.

I am not a christian but a church or a temple or a synagogue represents a house of religious worship to me.