Is this person guilty of rape?

[RavenSky]

Given the extraordinary levels of evidence many seem to require for criminal conviction by the state (or even just expulsion from a school) in other rape cases, I wonder if anyone will think this person might be guilty:

A Horseheads woman is facing rape charges after police say she engaged in sexual conduct with a prisoner at the Southport Correctional Facility.

Horseheads-based New York State Police say Betsy Kennedy-Scholl, 36, had sexual contact with an inmate at the facility on multiple occasions during a period from November 2012 to January 2013.

Under state law, prisoners can’t consent to sexual activity.

http://www.the-leader.com/article/20140620/NEWS/140629938/1998/NEWS

 

[Random Person]

Given the extraordinary levels of evidence many seem to require for criminal conviction by the state (or even just expulsion from a school) in other rape cases, I wonder if anyone will think this person might be guilty:

A Horseheads woman is facing rape charges after police say she engaged in sexual conduct with a prisoner at the Southport Correctional Facility.

Horseheads-based New York State Police say Betsy Kennedy-Scholl, 36, had sexual contact with an inmate at the facility on multiple occasions during a period from November 2012 to January 2013.

Under state law, prisoners can’t consent to sexual activity.

http://www.the-leader.com/article/20140620/NEWS/140629938/1998/NEWS

I would argue that prisoners could not not consent to sexual activity.


Oh sure a guy gets lucky in prison with a woman and charges get filed. Raped against his will by a male inmate everybody just shrugs their shoulders.

 

[aeebee50]

Should be cheaper on the state to just fire hire than prosecute the case.

 

[Achwienichtig]

Looks like the woman was an employee at the correctional facility. I wonder if the law in question was meant to protect inmates from being coerced into sex by people who could potentially affect their imprisonment?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I would say no. It depends what is meant by "civilian employee", though, and the nature of their relationship. If she was part of the hierarchical structure and had the prisoner trade sex for some kind of favours, then the fact that it's with a prisoner would make it coercive abuse. If she's just some random employee who decided to have sex with someone who happened to be a prisoner, then no.

The discussion is fairly moot, however, since the guy was wearing an overly revealing prison jumpsuit and was therefore pretty much just a whore who was asking for it.

 

[RavenSky]

Looks like the woman was an employee at the correctional facility. I wonder if the law in question was meant to protect inmates from being coerced into sex by people who could potentially affect their imprisonment?

I think this is exactly the purpose of the law Achwienichtig

 

[Keith&Co.]

Should be cheaper on the state to just fire hire than prosecute the case.

I'd guess it would be easier and more certain to prosecute for rape then fire her .
If they go for any sort of sexual misconduct dismissal, she might sue, maybe claiming it was consensual. With the 'no consent' law in place, and a rape conviction, that claim won't matter a damn.
And if she's a prison employee, they have to have mentioned that a time or two during indoc.

The law is supposed to be a deterrent, it would seem.
She wasn't deterred. Hope it was really good sex.

 

[ksen]

On the other hand this just proves that Elliot Gould was right that bitches just like the bad guys.

 

[Bronzeage]

Given the extraordinary levels of evidence many seem to require for criminal conviction by the state (or even just expulsion from a school) in other rape cases, I wonder if anyone will think this person might be guilty:

A Horseheads woman is facing rape charges after police say she engaged in sexual conduct with a prisoner at the Southport Correctional Facility.

Horseheads-based New York State Police say Betsy Kennedy-Scholl, 36, had sexual contact with an inmate at the facility on multiple occasions during a period from November 2012 to January 2013.

Under state law, prisoners can’t consent to sexual activity.

http://www.the-leader.com/article/20140620/NEWS/140629938/1998/NEWS

This wouldn't be a question if the guard were male and the prisoner of either sex.

I have friends who work in the prison system and they say this is a real problem. It is a symptom of low staff levels and a breakdown in discipline. The complications and the emotional entanglements are unending. The real danger here is these entanglements may lead to escape attempts. This is when prison staff and prisoners face the greatest danger. In the past, the biggest obstacle to escape was not the bars and walls, it was what to do once over the wall. In our day of cellphones, arranging outside help is a simple matter. In an escape attempt, a cellphone is more useful than a gun or gate keys. Failure to prosecute improper relationships between guards and inmates puts everyone inside in a great deal of danger.

 

[Rhea]

I'd agree with the law that says there is NO WAY for a prisoner/employee relationship to avoid a level of imbalance and that it's correct to rule that an incarcerated person is not capable of giving consent since they do not have control over their movements/locations and can therefore not freely answer that question to a person who not only does have that freedom but can control the prisoner's freedom. And that even _if_ the prisoner really really wanted to have the sex, the risk of a gone-sour relationship on their freedom (via retribution) also limits their ability to consent freely.

If she really wants to have sex with the guy and not be guilty of possible coercion, she would need to quit her job and then seek to have legal conjugal visits with him. Just as a teacher needs to wait until a student graduates.

 

[credoconsolans]

Given the extraordinary levels of evidence many seem to require for criminal conviction by the state (or even just expulsion from a school) in other rape cases, I wonder if anyone will think this person might be guilty:

A Horseheads woman is facing rape charges after police say she engaged in sexual conduct with a prisoner at the Southport Correctional Facility.

Horseheads-based New York State Police say Betsy Kennedy-Scholl, 36, had sexual contact with an inmate at the facility on multiple occasions during a period from November 2012 to January 2013.

Under state law, prisoners can’t consent to sexual activity.

http://www.the-leader.com/article/20140620/NEWS/140629938/1998/NEWS

Legally, yes.

He can't consent legally, no different than a child who can't consent legally.

So, yes, he was raped.

 

[doubtingt]

Looks like the woman was an employee at the correctional facility. I wonder if the law in question was meant to protect inmates from being coerced into sex by people who could potentially affect their imprisonment?

I think this is exactly the purpose of the law Achwienichtig

IOW, the employee is guilty of violating a law designed to prevent potential rapes, but may or may not have engaged in actual rape in any objective or psychological sense of term that goes beyond a legal technicality. A state could easily claim that no one can consent to sex with a person of their same gender, making all homosexual sex "rape" in the same sense that this is rape as a matter of contrived legal definition.

 

[Terrell]

Upon proof of guilt, beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law, yes. A prisoner is really in no position to refuse. Same can be said of someone who is unconscious or so intoxicated that they cannot hold a coherent conversation in their native tongue. Someone who just had a few drinks, but can uphold their end of a conversation, IMO, can give or refuse consent. I don't expect members of either sex to be required to carry breathalyzers, and I think that both men & women should be held to the same standard of accountability. (This of course assumes that there was no force, or credible threat of use of force.)

 

[Bomb#20]

This policy creates a powerful incentive for the employee to make a false rape accusation against the prisoner.

 

[fromderinside]

Yeah they are doing this to avoid union rules on discipline and firing. However since the prisoner was a tart with a long history of loose sexual activity she'll get an aquital.

 

[ksen]

This was lesbian prison sex?

 

[Rhea]

This policy creates a powerful incentive for the employee to make a false rape accusation against the prisoner.

It said it was on multiple occasions and he's behind bars, so maybe that would be hard to pull off?

- - - Updated - - -

This was lesbian prison sex?

I think fromder was saying the male prisoner was a tart who dressed provocatively and the "she" is the civilian employee.

 

[ksen]

oh . . . goddammit

 

[fromderinside]

I think fromder was saying the male prisoner was a tart who dressed provocatively and the "she" is the civilian employee.

Thanks for clearing that up. I've always needed an editor.

 

[Bronzeage]

This policy creates a powerful incentive for the employee to make a false rape accusation against the prisoner.

What are they going to do to the prisoner? Put him in prison?

The law also gives the employee an incentive to not have sex with inmates. All prison policy prohibits staff from putting themselves in a vulnerable place with an inmate. Any place where two people can have unnoticed sex is certainly a vulnerable place.

A prison is a place where every person's whereabouts are accounted for, 24 hours a day. If an employee made a false rape accusation, it's unlikely to stand up to the slightest examination.


True prison sex story:

I have a friend who worked as a psychologist for the State Department of Corrections. His job was to provide evaluations of inmates and what therapy could be offered. One day he gets a request from an inmate for an appointment. The inmate says, "A guard is forcing me to have sex with him."
"There's not much I can do for you, without some kind of proof or a witness," he tells the man.

A week later, there is another request. "I have your proof," the inmate says.
"What kind of proof would this be?"
"I saved the semen." The inmate produces a cellophane cigarette pack wrapper from his pocket.
"Just put it on the desk. I'll have to talk to my boss." The inmate is a little upset. This is the days before DNA analysis was cheap and easy.
"You can't prove it's his semen. It could be anyone's." The inmate is still unhappy.
"What if I bite his cock off? Would that be proof?"
"Yes," the psychologist admits. "That would be proof."

Two nights later there is an incident at the prison. A guard claims an inmate stuck his arm through the bars and stabbed him in the crotch. While the guard is in the prison infirmary, being treated for a laceration to to his penis, a crew of other guards search the inmates cell, and in the process beat him severely. The prison doctor has seen a lot of knife wounds and a lot of bite marks. He knows the difference. A clerk reports the injured guard came to him and asked to borrow a pocket knife, minutes after the time the attack occurred. He used the knife to cut his pants before reporting the attack.

The inmate was transferred to another facility. The guard was tried and convicted of sexual assault, at a trial where the cigarette pack of semen was placed in evidence.