Is this the end of the GOP?

[Bill Z. Bub]

My understanding is that the GOP since the mid 60's has been an amalgam of old timey Yankee GOPers (who don't necessary love Jesus) and the Southern style firebrands (who really love Jesus). If that be, and correct me please, here's a scenario that I like to consider: the firebrands take over the GOP logo and the Yankee apostates realign with the Donkeys.

<snip> When civil rights became the deciding issue in the 60's, the segregationists found themselves with a shrinking voice in the party. The Nixon/Humphrey/Wallace election of 1968 took the southern whites away from the Democrats by appealing to fear with a "law and order" campaign. When Wallace failed to follow through, the GOP took the spoils. <snip>

That's my point, too. Isn't it?

The GOP has continued to campaign on fear issues and has done well. It's a hollow victory and can't last long. Power in the Republican party means appealing to the base with rhetoric that is toxic in a general election. They are taking an increasing share of a shrinking market. It looks good in the beginning, but it can't last.

Maybe, and we agree on the GOP's campaign history since then, too but I like my scenario about the future better. It's more fanciful. I like the idea of the far right taking over completely with the Yankees abandoning them to their fate (much like the Southerners did to the Donkeys after Wallace, etc).

 

[Bill Z. Bub]

How long have you been in North Carolina?

I guess the best answer would be 'not long enough for you', but 59 years.

 

[SimpleDon]

Yes, you are right. That is the problem with conservatives and governance. They don't do policy. They can achieve their goal of no change simply by obstruction.

No sane country listens to conservatives. Their answer for every problem is the same, no.

Unfortunately, conservatives can use fear and anger to increase their numbers.

They work in tandem with Establishment Liberals, who purposely go to extremes in order to make the Conservatives' extremes look moderate. They are united. Only the gullible fanboys take either of the sides presented by the ruling class. The kleptocracy spends years plotting this fake scenario in the prep schools and fraternity houses.

There is nothing that especially endows liberals with a superior ability to govern except that we have been laboring under conservative governance for so long that anyone else will be an improvement. Or I should say that we have been that we have been laboring under conservative non-governance, or under conservative obstruction with governing for so long.

I have to question your assertion that conservatives "work in tandem with Establishment Liberals, who purposely go to extremes in order to make the Conservatives' extremes look moderate. They are united." I am not sure that I fully understand what you are saying here. I seriously doubt that the Establishment liberals are doing anything purposely to make conservatives look moderate.

The main problem with both conservatives and liberals is that they look at things through a lense of ideology. Conservative ideology is nothing more than an endless stream of excuses to not do anything. Liberal ideology is to do something usually through the government to try to solve every problem in society. Neither is correct all of the time but we have been ignoring problems for so long under our current dominantly conservative governance that the liberal ideology is much closer to what we need right now.

It is inevitable that people will develop ideologies. The world is very complex now and is constantly getting more complex. It is increasingly hard to make any sense of all of the complexity. Ideology is a short cut that allows us to dispense with the work of understanding our problems. To a conservative government and regulations on businesses are bad and if that is what is required then that solution is bad. If the problem is with individuals then government and regulations are good and passing laws to lock up more people is good. To a liberal corporations are bad and if a solution depends on corporations doing what they do best then that solution is bad.

The problems that we face at any time in society are invariably those where the status quo has failed. In other words, those who believe that preserving the status quo, that is conservatives, are always wrong about the problems that we have in society.

The problem that plagues us now is that the Establishment, the ruling class, realized the disconnect that exists between conservative ideology and reality and the need of conservatives for lies to add to their ideology to convince themselves that what is wrong is actually right. That by providing those lies that the establishment could direct conservatives to do the bidding of the establishment, to reduce taxes on the rich, to reduce wages to increase profits, and to relieve businesses of the obligation of paying for externalities like reducing the pollution that they produce or for providing safe products and workplaces, externalities that they believe reduce their profits.

And the establishment realized that they could increase the numbers of conservatives by spreading fear and anger.

 

[SimpleDon]

I have to say that the best would be to return to the days that both parties averaged out to moderate, with the Republicans slightly to the right and aligned more to the benefit of businesses, and the Democrats slightly to the left and aligned more to the benefit of people. But I don't see this happening as long as the establishment who controls the media believes that the serious polarization that exists is in their best interests and the Democrats are so happy with being right that they don't understand that they have to convince people that they are.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I have to say that the best would be to return to the days that both parties averaged out to moderate, with the Republicans slightly to the right and aligned more to the benefit of businesses, and the Democrats slightly to the left and aligned more to the benefit of people. But I don't see this happening as long as the establishment who controls the media believes that the serious polarization that exists is in their best interests and the Democrats are so happy with being right that they don't understand that they have to convince people that they are.

Not enough bread and circus in such an arrangement, at least by present standards.

 

[RavenSky]

I'd like to see a system where "businesses" and "people" were not considered to be separate and opposing forces.

 

[Bronzeage]

How long have you been in North Carolina?

I guess the best answer would be 'not long enough for you', but 59 years.

I don't actually have a residency requirement for North Carolina.

I come from a family of Tarheel New Deal Democrats. It was always interesting to hear my grandmother, uncles, and aunts, discuss politics.

When you said, "My understanding," you made it sound as if you relied on secondhand information for your history.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

The Specious Spectrum

They work in tandem with Establishment Liberals, who purposely go to extremes in order to make the Conservatives' extremes look moderate. They are united. Only the gullible fanboys take either of the sides presented by the ruling class. The kleptocracy spends years plotting this fake scenario in the prep schools and fraternity houses.

There is nothing that especially endows liberals with a superior ability to govern except that we have been laboring under conservative governance for so long that anyone else will be an improvement. Or I should say that we have been that we have been laboring under conservative non-governance, or under conservative obstruction with governing for so long.

I have to question your assertion that conservatives "work in tandem with Establishment Liberals, who purposely go to extremes in order to make the Conservatives' extremes look moderate. They are united." I am not sure that I fully understand what you are saying here. I seriously doubt that the Establishment liberals are doing anything purposely to make conservatives look moderate.

The main problem with both conservatives and liberals is that they look at things through a lense of ideology. Conservative ideology is nothing more than an endless stream of excuses to not do anything. Liberal ideology is to do something usually through the government to try to solve every problem in society. Neither is correct all of the time but we have been ignoring problems for so long under our current dominantly conservative governance that the liberal ideology is much closer to what we need right now.

It is inevitable that people will develop ideologies. The world is very complex now and is constantly getting more complex. It is increasingly hard to make any sense of all of the complexity. Ideology is a short cut that allows us to dispense with the work of understanding our problems. To a conservative government and regulations on businesses are bad and if that is what is required then that solution is bad. If the problem is with individuals then government and regulations are good and passing laws to lock up more people is good. To a liberal corporations are bad and if a solution depends on corporations doing what they do best then that solution is bad.

The problems that we face at any time in society are invariably those where the status quo has failed. In other words, those who believe that preserving the status quo, that is conservatives, are always wrong about the problems that we have in society.

The problem that plagues us now is that the Establishment, the ruling class, realized the disconnect that exists between conservative ideology and reality and the need of conservatives for lies to add to their ideology to convince themselves that what is wrong is actually right. That by providing those lies that the establishment could direct conservatives to do the bidding of the establishment, to reduce taxes on the rich, to reduce wages to increase profits, and to relieve businesses of the obligation of paying for externalities like reducing the pollution that they produce or for providing safe products and workplaces, externalities that they believe reduce their profits.

And the establishment realized that they could increase the numbers of conservatives by spreading fear and anger.

Liberals don't have minds of their own but are entirely driven by an indelible instinct to empower their entire birth-class, including its Conservatives. Followers who are mesmerized by the charisma of the born-rich don't count. The leaders of both "sides" invent impractical and hypocritical ideological nonsense but have the clout to make people take them seriously. We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There is nothing that especially endows liberals with a superior ability to govern except that we have been laboring under conservative governance for so long that anyone else will be an improvement. Or I should say that we have been that we have been laboring under conservative non-governance, or under conservative obstruction with governing for so long.

I have to question your assertion that conservatives "work in tandem with Establishment Liberals, who purposely go to extremes in order to make the Conservatives' extremes look moderate. They are united." I am not sure that I fully understand what you are saying here. I seriously doubt that the Establishment liberals are doing anything purposely to make conservatives look moderate.

The main problem with both conservatives and liberals is that they look at things through a lense of ideology. Conservative ideology is nothing more than an endless stream of excuses to not do anything. Liberal ideology is to do something usually through the government to try to solve every problem in society. Neither is correct all of the time but we have been ignoring problems for so long under our current dominantly conservative governance that the liberal ideology is much closer to what we need right now.

It is inevitable that people will develop ideologies. The world is very complex now and is constantly getting more complex. It is increasingly hard to make any sense of all of the complexity. Ideology is a short cut that allows us to dispense with the work of understanding our problems. To a conservative government and regulations on businesses are bad and if that is what is required then that solution is bad. If the problem is with individuals then government and regulations are good and passing laws to lock up more people is good. To a liberal corporations are bad and if a solution depends on corporations doing what they do best then that solution is bad.

The problems that we face at any time in society are invariably those where the status quo has failed. In other words, those who believe that preserving the status quo, that is conservatives, are always wrong about the problems that we have in society.

The problem that plagues us now is that the Establishment, the ruling class, realized the disconnect that exists between conservative ideology and reality and the need of conservatives for lies to add to their ideology to convince themselves that what is wrong is actually right. That by providing those lies that the establishment could direct conservatives to do the bidding of the establishment, to reduce taxes on the rich, to reduce wages to increase profits, and to relieve businesses of the obligation of paying for externalities like reducing the pollution that they produce or for providing safe products and workplaces, externalities that they believe reduce their profits.

And the establishment realized that they could increase the numbers of conservatives by spreading fear and anger.

Liberals don't have minds of their own but are entirely driven by an indelible instinct to empower their entire birth-class, including its Conservatives. Followers who are mesmerized by the charisma of the born-rich don't count. The leaders of both "sides" invent impractical and hypocritical ideological nonsense but have the clout to make people take them seriously. We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.

Alright then. Let's eat the rich. It has been a while since we've done that.