Islam just can't stand images of Mohammed

[Warpoet]

The problem with people like that not speaking would be that their ideas would remain unchallenged. Not speaking does not make the ideas/beliefs go away. Having insane ideas remain unchallenged could be even more dangerous for the world.

Debatable. There are people who think fucking kids is just great, and I don't think society benefits from hearing their toxic views or engaging with them. But that's getting off-topic, and not really central to dismal's (false) comparison.

 

[Axulus]

Well, if they have a legal right to speak, what should stop them from doing so? They're immoral dickheads, so manners and decency aren't going to be preventing them. Are you saying that you don't think that there should be any restrictions on what they're saying beyond their own self-regulation?

"Should not speak" does not mean "should be forced or pressured not to speak." I'm saying the world would be better off if people like Geller did not speak because they promote bigotry and hatred. No different than the Fred Phelps or David Dukes of the world. I would wager that most reasonable people agree with me.

Fred Phelps helped advance the gay rights movement in this country. People were turned off by the hatred and lies his group spewed. Even conservatives made efforts to distance themselves from Fred's position so as to not be associated with his kind of extremism.

By desiring these type of people be silenced or just shut up, you actually retard progress.

The late Fred Phelps with his Westboro Baptist Church, who picketed funerals of soldiers killed in action and proclaimed “God hates fags,” created such a negative impression of Christians who disapprove of homosexuality that he actually played a major role in advancing the cause of gay rights. So say a number of gay activists and other observers.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/geneveith/2014/03/how-fred-phelps-helped-the-gay-rights-movement/

 

[Warpoet]

If you guys are going to have your own little pissing match, would you mind starting your own thread for it and not muddying up this one?

I didn't muddy anything up or start any pissing matches. An absurd accusation was leveled against me, I dealt with it, and that's that.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

"Should not speak" does not mean "should be forced or pressured not to speak." I'm saying the world would be better off if people like Geller did not speak because they promote bigotry and hatred. No different than the Fred Phelps or David Dukes of the world. I would wager that most reasonable people agree with me.

Fred Phelps helped advance the gay rights movement in this country. People were turned off by the hatred and lies his group spewed. Even conservatives made efforts to distance themselves from Fred's position so as to not be associated with his kind of extremism.

By desiring these type of people be silenced or just shut up, you actually retard progress.

The late Fred Phelps with his Westboro Baptist Church, who picketed funerals of soldiers killed in action and proclaimed “God hates fags,” created such a negative impression of Christians who disapprove of homosexuality that he actually played a major role in advancing the cause of gay rights. So say a number of gay activists and other observers.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/geneveith/2014/03/how-fred-phelps-helped-the-gay-rights-movement/

I'd be interested to know how many Americans know who Phelps even is.

 

[Warpoet]

Fred Phelps helped advance the gay rights movement in this country. People were turned off by the hatred and lies his group spewed. Even conservatives made efforts to distance themselves from Fred's position so as to not be associated with his kind of extremism.

That's because he started picketing the funerals of dead soldiers. Nobody really would have given a shit otherwise. Whether there was some residual positive effect for gay rights in America is impossible to quantify.

But unless you think pedophiles deserve the same level of airtime he got, clearly, this doesn't work across the board. And I don't think it works in Geller's case, as the post-9/11 anti-Muslim media frenzy we currently live in has allowed her and those like her to thrive. She is toxic. And incidents like this only make matters worse.

But like I said, this is all totally irrelevant to the false insinuation that contempt for her and her views is the same as her bigotry against Arabs/Muslims.

 

[Axulus]

That's because he started picketing the funerals of dead soldiers. Nobody really would have given a shit otherwise. Whether there was some residual positive effect for gay rights in America is impossible to quantify.

But you were categorically saying people like this speaking has a negative impact on the world. I don't think that is at all clear.

But unless you think pedophiles deserve the same level of airtime he got, clearly, this doesn't work across the board.

You ever heard of NAMBLA? I don't think them speaking harmed the world. People categorically rejected their position and arguments. To be associated with that organization was career suicide.

And I don't think it works in Geller's case, as the post-9/11 anti-Muslim media frenzy we currently live in has allowed her and those like her to thrive. She is toxic. And incidents like this only make matters worse.

And my position on the best way to handle people like her is to fight back and win in the marketplace for ideas, not to call on her to shut up. Fight bad ideas with better ideas. The bigotry and hatred she exhibits will still be festering in peoples minds even if she remains silent. Her speaking gives the opportunity to challenge and expose such ideas.

 

[Warpoet]

You ever heard of NAMBLA? I don't think them speaking harmed the world. People categorically rejected their position and arguments. To be associated with that organization was career suicide.

Yes, because they are so far outside of cultural norms as to be largely irrelevant either way (but certainly not beneficial). Geller is preying upon very real and widespread public anxieties post-9/11 and has a high public profile with regular (and now increasing) media appearances. And she's one of the most unabashedly crazy ones. Some of her cronies have testified before Congress, or even been paid to train law enforcement about Islam.

So yes, my view is that the world would be better if they just stopped talking. I don't think their nuttiness and poorly disguised bigotry is driving us towards any broad social reflections on terrorism, religion, foreign policy or anything else.

And my position on the best way to handle people like her is to fight back and win in the marketplace for ideas, not try to call on her to shut up. Fight bad ideas with better ideas. The bigotry and hatred she exhibits will still be festering in peoples minds even if she remains silent. Her speaking gives the opportunity to challenge and expose such ideas.

I have Muslim friends who feel the same way. I simply have less confidence in the general public's ability to think rationally about these issues, especially in a post-9/11 world where bigotry can easily be dressed up as something vital to our national defense or survival as a culture. The general public's track record on these issues isn't a very good one, and the media's track record for covering them is even worse, and getting worse with each passing year.

Still, it's debatable, could be argued about for hours on end, but not the point I was arguing and not very relevant anyway, since Geller and the gang won't shut up any time soon or be taken out of the spotlight. So for now let's just agree that as long as she's in circulation we should all just see her for the bigoted cunt that she is and not award her any special status or credit even when crazy shit like this happens.

 

[BH]

My opinion regarding drawing of the Prophet:


"meh, who cares".

 

[Tom Sawyer]

My opinion regarding drawing of the Prophet:


"meh, who cares".

The guys with guns who want to shoot the people drawing the cartoons certainly care.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

What? No one posted the winning cartoon?

View attachment 2908

I like it.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, that winning one is a fairly good piece of art with a valid and important social message.

 

[Warpoet]

Ya, that winning one is a fairly good piece of art with a valid and important social message.

Take particular note of Muhammad's hairy, ape-like appearance. Plus, Hitler mustache.

Oh, and also, the artist's blog is a cesspool of paranoid ranting against Muslims and Obama (who are actually probably one and the same, I'm sure), with brilliant social commentary such as this:

"When Muslims aren't butchering us, they're butchering the English language, which is fitting since their prophet was illiterate and the koran is illiterature. I can almost hear Muslims screaming, "We Will Butcher The English Language!" I found this picture of "moderate" Muslims, praising "Hitlor" & calling for another "Hollow Cost" on Facebook."

"While the civilized world commemorates the Holocaust, "the Muslim world" celebrates the Holocaust, denies the Holocaust and threatens a new Holocaust."

"As to why I give Mohammad a Hitler mustache - Growing up among Muslims, it was not uncommon to hear Hitler being spoken of in glowing terms. No doubt because of the hardcore anti-semitism inherent in both Islam and Nazism, and so within Mohammad and Hitler."

But yes, let's all start a circle jerk and keep posting this fucking asshole's work so he can get more publicity. Because free speech.

 

[TSwizzle]

Ya, that winning one is a fairly good piece of art with a valid and important social message.

I'd like to see some of the others. The one posted here, in my opinion, is a bit off point in regards to a contemporary social message. As far as I'm aware, objections to depictions of "the prophet" are from the followers of teh islam, not "the prophet". It's decent though.

 

[TSwizzle]

What? No one posted the winning cartoon?

View attachment 2908

I like it.

Ya, that winning one is a fairly good piece of art with a valid and important social message.

Take particular note of Muhammad's hairy, ape-like appearance.

But yes, let's all start a circle jerk and keep posting this fucking asshole's work so he can get more publicity. Because free speech.

More Wolverine than ape I say.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, that winning one is a fairly good piece of art with a valid and important social message.

Take particular note of Muhammad's hairy, ape-like appearance.

Oh, and also, the artist's blog is a cesspool of paranoid ranting against Muslims and Obama (who are actually probably one and the same, I'm sure), with brilliant social commentary such as this:

"When Muslims aren't butchering us, they're butchering the English language, which is fitting since their prophet was illiterate and the koran is illiterature. I can almost hear Muslims screaming, "We Will Butcher The English Language!" I found this picture of "moderate" Muslims, praising "Hitlor" & calling for another "Hollow Cost" on Facebook."

"While the civilized world commemorates the Holocaust, "the Muslim world" celebrates the Holocaust, denies the Holocaust and threatens a new Holocaust."

"As to why I give Mohammad a Hitler mustache - Growing up among Muslims, it was not uncommon to hear Hitler being spoken of in glowing terms. No doubt because of the hardcore anti-semitism inherent in both Islam and Nazism, and so within Mohammad and Hitler."

But yes, let's all start a circle jerk and keep posting this fucking asshole's work so he can get more publicity. Because free speech.

Ok. Good luck with all of that.

 

[Trausti]

Ya, that winning one is a fairly good piece of art with a valid and important social message.

Take particular note of Muhammad's hairy, ape-like appearance.

Oh, and also, the artist's blog is a cesspool of paranoid ranting against Muslims and Obama (who are actually probably one and the same, I'm sure), with brilliant social commentary such as this:

"When Muslims aren't butchering us, they're butchering the English language, which is fitting since their prophet was illiterate and the koran is illiterature. I can almost hear Muslims screaming, "We Will Butcher The English Language!" I found this picture of "moderate" Muslims, praising "Hitlor" & calling for another "Hollow Cost" on Facebook."

"While the civilized world commemorates the Holocaust, "the Muslim world" celebrates the Holocaust, denies the Holocaust and threatens a new Holocaust."

"As to why I give Mohammad a Hitler mustache - Growing up among Muslims, it was not uncommon to hear Hitler being spoken of in glowing terms. No doubt because of the hardcore anti-semitism inherent in both Islam and Nazism, and so within Mohammad and Hitler."

But yes, let's all start a circle jerk and keep posting this fucking asshole's work so he can get more publicity. Because free speech.

Hurrah for double standards.

 

[Warpoet]

Hurrah for double standards.

Hurrah for you putting words in other peoples' mouths. I find pictures like that to be silly and pointless and generally just a masturbatory release for atheists who aren't interested in actual discourse with theists.

But unlike your first picture, it isn't portraying anyone as an ape (or Hitler), and it probably wasn't drawn by a bigoted fuck who thinks all Christians are bloodthirsty barbarians.

 

[Axulus]

Hurrah for double standards.

Hurrah for you putting words in other peoples' mouths. I find pictures like that to be silly and pointless and generally just a masturbatory release for atheists who aren't interested in actual discourse with theists.

But unlike your first picture, it isn't portraying anyone as an ape (or Hitler), and it probably wasn't drawn by a bigoted fuck who thinks all Christians are bloodthirsty barbarians.

Muhammad was a bloodthirsty fuck who spread Islam by conquest and whose forces engaged in many a massacre. If the Hitler mustache was intentional, why in the world would you object?

 

[Warpoet]

Muhammad was a bloodthirsty fuck who spread Islam by conquest and whose forces engaged in many a massacre. If the Hitler mustache was intentional, why in the world would you object?

Because the artist wasn't just making a statement about Muhammad, as a cursory scan through his blog makes clear.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

nm