Israel: Hey Assholes, give us more money and go to war for us

[Cerberus]

He is a fanatic that causes more harm than good.

And the West has plenty of these idiots.

It's a thin line between 'a fanatic' and 'a strong leader' which only an intelligent individual can discern; although you can give me an example of Netanyahu's fanaticism if you like??

 

[Sarpedon]

Ha Ha Ha, Cerberus.

Israel is a highly vulnerable nation surrounded by hostiles, and lacking natural resources. An intelligent leader of such a nation would make it a priority to improve its relations and cultivate alliances with other countries. Netenyahu, by contrast has engaged in a seemingly deliberate program of antagonization; both of his #1 ally, unabashedly interfering in its internal politics, and around the world, with his openly racist policies and never ending support for the illegal settlements. Not only has the international position of Israel never been worse, he is making absolutely no attempt to rectify the situation. No wonder no one listened to him during the Iran negotiations; he went out of his way to antagonize each and every person at that conference. Anyone who would choose such a man as a leader is a fool.

Meanwhile, Obama has spent his presidency repairing the damage of Bush's. Both our economy and foreign diplomatic stock have improved markedly, and he has been busily trying to extricate us from the quagmires Bush left us in.

 

[Earl IV]

FIFY

...and just like republican's who cannot support anything Obama comes up with, the Israeli leaders cannot support anything which gets Iran out of economic sanctions.

This deal means Iran cannot attempt to get a nuclear weapon for a very long time

FIFY...again

 

[untermensche]

He is a fanatic that causes more harm than good.

And the West has plenty of these idiots.

It's a thin line between 'a fanatic' and 'a strong leader' which only an intelligent individual can discern; although you can give me an example of Netanyahu's fanaticism if you like??

Any Israeli who supports the continuation of the illegal settlements is a fanatic.

They support continual violence over peace based on religious delusions.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's a thin line between 'a fanatic' and 'a strong leader' which only an intelligent individual can discern; although you can give me an example of Netanyahu's fanaticism if you like??

Any Israeli who supports the continuation of the illegal settlements is a fanatic.

They support continual violence over peace based on religious delusions.

No. They're simply a realist that recognizes that giving them up gets Israel nothing but costs and trouble.

 

[whichphilosophy]

It's a thin line between 'a fanatic' and 'a strong leader' which only an intelligent individual can discern; although you can give me an example of Netanyahu's fanaticism if you like??

Any Israeli who supports the continuation of the illegal settlements is a fanatic.

They support continual violence over peace based on religious delusions.

In fairness He has recently been willing to speak to the Palestinians, at least on the West Bank about freezing settlements though I am not sure whether this is just to please the US and EU
He doesn't accept a Palestinian State though most of the world does and its not clear if he is stopping in some areas and increasing in others.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/netanyahu-israel-stop-building-settlements-west-bank-1510785

For some reason I cannot cut and paste certain parts of it.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Any Israeli who supports the continuation of the illegal settlements is a fanatic.

They support continual violence over peace based on religious delusions.

No. They're simply a realist that recognizes that giving them up gets Israel nothing but costs and trouble.

Taking them caused a lot of trouble.
There are two issues, the sovereignty of land but Israel also decided that it would kick people out of their homes after the Zionists nominated God as an estate agent.
There is room for both and even though things don't look so good, peace is the only option.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

If Iran wants a nuclear weapon, they'd get one with or without the deal. At least now they are slightly more inclined to settle for mere breakaway capability, and closer economic ties usually tend to make relations between countries more peaceful.

Exactly. By most estimates, the result of this deal is that they can reach "breakout" capability in fourteen months instead of the current three. Of course, both of those estimates are based on the worst-case scenario where Iran makes a balls-out dash to refine enough weapons-grade uranium and does absolutely everything right on the first try without any technical hangups. It would take them still longer -- several years at least -- to use that material to build an actual bomb, and even in that case they could only build them one at a time (the first and possibly second would be expended by the need to TEST it and see if it even works).

Given the other constraints in their research program, this basically doubles the timetable for bomb development IF Iran were to suddenly decide it needed a nuclear weapon. On the other hand they have been very clear on the fact that they aren't looking to build one and it's been almost a decade since anyone had credible evidence they were even interested.

Basically, the only way this deal could result in Iran getting a nuclear weapon is if Israel drops one on them and it fails to explode.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Basically, the only way this deal could result in Iran getting a nuclear weapon is if Israel drops one on them and it fails to explode.

Well, that's what happens when you try and save a few bucks by buying the discount Russian nukes as opposed to spending the extra money to get a high quality American one.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Any Israeli who supports the continuation of the illegal settlements is a fanatic.

They support continual violence over peace based on religious delusions.

No. They're simply a realist

There's nothing realistic about expanding those settlements, let alone building them in the first place.

The only reason they exist in the first place -- I repeat, the ONLY reason -- is because Zionist Jews believe that "Judea and Samaria" rightfully belong to Israel. It is the explicit goal of the settlers to displace the Palestinians from the West Bank, inch by inch, mile by mile, settlement by settlement until ALL of that land belongs to Israel.

There is NO justification for those settlements other than religious Zionism. NONE. If you support the settlements, then you are supporting the gradual annexation of the West Bank and are, therefore, a fanatic.

 

[Frikki]

Any Israeli who supports the continuation of the illegal settlements is a fanatic.

They support continual violence over peace based on religious delusions.

No. They're simply a realist that recognizes that giving them up gets Israel nothing but costs and trouble.

A moderate Libertarian is all for property rights, except for brown people.

 

[arkirk]

No. They're simply a realist that recognizes that giving them up gets Israel nothing but costs and trouble.

A moderate Libertarian is all for property rights, except for brown people.

What our dear friend Loren doesn't realize is the "trouble" started with the settlements and the seizure of land and that it won't end till Israel gives up those settlements. Israel has interfered with several generations of Arabs in occupied lands. It will not doubt not stop its racist behavior till it experiences some form of chastisement and has its applecart overturned. Loren just doesn't understand that gross injustice and inequality always is headed for trouble.

Netanyahu is in my eyes, a war criminal and also somewhat of a madman. His world is going south on him. I only wish we didn't have so many people in our government listening to him. He is headed for the scrapheap of history for sure...along with Hitler and Pol Pot. He won't be alone when he gets there.

 

[Cerberus]

Ha Ha Ha, Cerberus.

Israel is a highly vulnerable nation surrounded by hostiles, and lacking natural resources. An intelligent leader of such a nation would make it a priority to improve its relations and cultivate alliances with other countries. Netenyahu, by contrast has engaged in a seemingly deliberate program of antagonization; both of his #1 ally, unabashedly interfering in its internal politics, and around the world, with his openly racist policies and never ending support for the illegal settlements. Not only has the international position of Israel never been worse, he is making absolutely no attempt to rectify the situation. No wonder no one listened to him during the Iran negotiations; he went out of his way to antagonize each and every person at that conference. Anyone who would choose such a man as a leader is a fool.

Meanwhile, Obama has spent his presidency repairing the damage of Bush's. Both our economy and foreign diplomatic stock have improved markedly, and he has been busily trying to extricate us from the quagmires Bush left us in.

Despite his shameless populist election-grovelling (not to mention his irritating sssss'y way of speaking) I actually cheered on Obama in your elections, thinking that the first thing he'd do in office would be to sort out the appalling mess the misbegotten Afghanistan adventure (have you ever watched Bitter Lake?) had turned into, but what did he do? Why, he sent in a 'surge'

, which made it all 10 times worse. I'm not interested in your domestic politics, and he may well have done well - I wouldn't know; but his foreign policy was a disaster. Thank god he'll be out of office when the IS thing kicks off.

- - - Updated - - -

A moderate Libertarian is all for property rights, except for brown people.

What our dear friend Loren doesn't realize is the "trouble" started with the settlements and the seizure of land and that it won't end till Israel gives up those settlements. Israel has interfered with several generations of Arabs in occupied lands. It will not doubt not stop its racist behavior till it experiences some form of chastisement and has its applecart overturned. Loren just doesn't understand that gross injustice and inequality always is headed for trouble.

Netanyahu is in my eyes, a war criminal and also somewhat of a madman. His world is going south on him. I only wish we didn't have so many people in our government listening to him. He is headed for the scrapheap of history for sure...along with Hitler and Pol Pot. He won't be alone when he gets there.

Bit OTT isn't it? What has he done that compares with what they did?

 

[Cerberus]

No. They're simply a realist that recognizes that giving them up gets Israel nothing but costs and trouble.

Taking them caused a lot of trouble.
There are two issues, the sovereignty of land but Israel also decided that it would kick people out of their homes after the Zionists nominated God as an estate agent.
There is room for both and even though things don't look so good, peace is the only option.

Don't you think Hamas shares any responsibility for the problems in the region, such as sending HE rockets into civilians areas of Israel, and placing explosives in bars, and on school buses full of children?

 

[whichphilosophy]

Taking them caused a lot of trouble.
There are two issues, the sovereignty of land but Israel also decided that it would kick people out of their homes after the Zionists nominated God as an estate agent.
There is room for both and even though things don't look so good, peace is the only option.

Don't you think Hamas shares any responsibility for the problems in the region, such as sending HE rockets into civilians areas of Israel, and placing explosives in bars, and on school buses full of children?

Yes to that point absolutely. If I say that Palestinians are killed it is not meant to justify it. The problem is we have a situation where people are being killed on both sides for whatever reasons.


The people of Israel have a right to exit in the region, and the people of Palestine have a right to exist in the region. If there were peace in the region, the Israelis would be the best thing that happened to the Middle East. The Jewish people are innovators, leaders in all aspects of world affairs. Unfortunately there are extremists of both sides and they interact with each other. I work with Arabs and generally they are great to get on with. They are people aside of cultural aspects and taboos.

As I have mentioned previously the Zionists (distinguished from Israelis as a whole) have factored into the ownership of the territory dispute with allowing, or were allowing settlers to take over land occupied by others. This made the territorial dispute more complex.

 

[Jayjay]

A moderate Libertarian is all for property rights, except for brown people.

What our dear friend Loren doesn't realize is the "trouble" started with the settlements and the seizure of land and that it won't end till Israel gives up those settlements. Israel has interfered with several generations of Arabs in occupied lands. It will not doubt not stop its racist behavior till it experiences some form of chastisement and has its applecart overturned. Loren just doesn't understand that gross injustice and inequality always is headed for trouble.

The cynic in me would remember that history is filled with counter-examples of gross injustices and inequality working out quite nicely for some countries. Heck, it's worked astoundingly well for Israel at least until this point.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No. They're simply a realist that recognizes that giving them up gets Israel nothing but costs and trouble.

Taking them caused a lot of trouble.
There are two issues, the sovereignty of land but Israel also decided that it would kick people out of their homes after the Zionists nominated God as an estate agent.
There is room for both and even though things don't look so good, peace is the only option.

Taking them didn't cause any trouble--there was a low-grade war before, there was a low-grade war after. It's just a convenient excuse to delude those who don't pay attention to history.

- - - Updated - - -

No. They're simply a realist

There's nothing realistic about expanding those settlements, let alone building them in the first place.

The only reason they exist in the first place -- I repeat, the ONLY reason -- is because Zionist Jews believe that "Judea and Samaria" rightfully belong to Israel. It is the explicit goal of the settlers to displace the Palestinians from the West Bank, inch by inch, mile by mile, settlement by settlement until ALL of that land belongs to Israel.

There is NO justification for those settlements other than religious Zionism. NONE. If you support the settlements, then you are supporting the gradual annexation of the West Bank and are, therefore, a fanatic.

I see this "expanding the settlements" garbage again. Where is there any settlement-building outside the wall??

- - - Updated - - -

A moderate Libertarian is all for property rights, except for brown people.

What our dear friend Loren doesn't realize is the "trouble" started with the settlements and the seizure of land and that it won't end till Israel gives up those settlements. Israel has interfered with several generations of Arabs in occupied lands. It will not doubt not stop its racist behavior till it experiences some form of chastisement and has its applecart overturned. Loren just doesn't understand that gross injustice and inequality always is headed for trouble.

Netanyahu is in my eyes, a war criminal and also somewhat of a madman. His world is going south on him. I only wish we didn't have so many people in our government listening to him. He is headed for the scrapheap of history for sure...along with Hitler and Pol Pot. He won't be alone when he gets there.

<Hits arkirk with a history book.>

There were no settlements in the 1948-1967 period. Back then the threat was insurgents rather than terrorists as Israel wasn't powerful enough to attack the bases they used to attack Israel from. As maintaining a military camp near Israel became too dangerous they switched from insurgency to terrorism.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Taking them didn't cause any trouble

KEEPING them did.

I see this "expanding the settlements" garbage again. Where is there any settlement-building outside the wall??

The last time you asked this question you got responses from no less than four different people, including me, all with sources cited and links, maps, even timelines. Clearly you didn't bother to read even a single one of them. You have such a hardon for worshipping the overdog that you can't even keep a consistent moral compass anymore.

Besides which, "the wall" is not Israel's legitimate border, nor are the settlements inside it in any way justifiable.

There were no settlements in the 1948-1967 period.

Yes there were. Most of the settlements you claim are "inside the wall" were built during the 1950s and 60s. That's the whole reason why the wall was built where it was, to consolidate control over those older and better established settlements. Almost all of the newer settlements build during and since the early 1990s are outside the wall.

Back then the threat was insurgents rather than terrorists as Israel wasn't powerful enough to attack the bases they used to attack Israel from.

TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE

There was no "insurgency" at that time, it was a CONVENTIONAL military conflict with Egypt, Jordan and Syria. The Suez Crisis and the Israeli occupation of Gaza and the Sinai being the big events. The PLO didn't even EXIST until 1964 and wasn't active as a militant organization until shortly after the Six Day War.

Israeli settler activity in the West Bank almost triggered a major war with Jordan on three separate occasions, with Israel claiming the settlers were acting independently without their sanction but nonetheless refusing to stop them or even discourage them in any way.

As maintaining a military camp near Israel became too dangerous they switched from insurgency to terrorism.

BULLSHIT. The Palestinian refugees had almost no involvement in the conflict until after the formation of the PLO, and were not even a significant factor in Israeli military planning until after the Yom Kippur War. Prior to that, they were only really notable for repeated and sporadic clashes with settlers, to which Israel responded by providing the settlers with weapons and Jordan responded by doing the same to the refugees. It wasn't until Jordan abandoned them after the Six Day War that the PLO even started to act as an independent Palestinian movement.

 

[untermensche]

I see this "expanding the settlements" garbage again. Where is there any settlement-building outside the wall??

There are three ways to expand the illegal settlements.

1. Stealing more land.

2. Building on land already stolen.

3. Bringing more people onto stolen land.

When none of these are occurring then expansion has stopped.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I see this "expanding the settlements" garbage again. Where is there any settlement-building outside the wall??

There are three ways to expand the illegal settlements.

1. Stealing more land.

2. Building on land already stolen.

3. Bringing more people onto stolen land.

When none of these are occurring then expansion has stopped.

#1 is expansion. #2 and #3 are not.