#IStandWithAhmed (or Inventing While Muslim is a thing?)

[Juma]

I forgot about 9-11, that does look fishy.
The other new information is that there was no battery and he had that thing plugged during the class.
If it is true then I don't know, I am not so sure it was not a hoax of some kind. Setting up alarm in the class with it plugged would be hard and very deliberate.
Clocks usually can run for a few minutes without any external power including backup battery. So it was possible he for some reason took battery off and plugged it into AC, but that would make no sense.

Also I assumed he said he was trying to impress his engineering teacher, not english one.
Anyway, I agree with that dude, it all looks fishy, they kid who was called a bomb-maker in school, brings a fake-bomb looking device right after 9-11.

Looks like Richard Dawkins is getting in on it too:

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/sep/20/richard-dawkins-questions-ahmed-mohamed-motive-backlash

In a tweet, the scientist linked to a YouTube video entitled Ahmed Mohammed [sic] Clock is a FRAUD, in which user Thomas Talbot alleges Mohamed’s clock “is in fact not an invention. The ‘clock’ is a commercial bedside alarm clock removed from its casing”.

In his tweet, Dawkins said: “If this is true, what was his motive? Whether or not he wanted the police to arrest him, they shouldn’t have done so.” His next tweet said of the video: “This man seems to know what he’s talking about.”

Hey, Dawkins agreed with me

Yes. He seems to have gone nuts too.

 

[Axulus]

I forgot about 9-11, that does look fishy.
The other new information is that there was no battery and he had that thing plugged during the class.
If it is true then I don't know, I am not so sure it was not a hoax of some kind. Setting up alarm in the class with it plugged would be hard and very deliberate.
Clocks usually can run for a few minutes without any external power including backup battery. So it was possible he for some reason took battery off and plugged it into AC, but that would make no sense.

Also I assumed he said he was trying to impress his engineering teacher, not english one.
Anyway, I agree with that dude, it all looks fishy, they kid who was called a bomb-maker in school, brings a fake-bomb looking device right after 9-11.

Looks like Richard Dawkins is getting in on it too:

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/sep/20/richard-dawkins-questions-ahmed-mohamed-motive-backlash

In a tweet, the scientist linked to a YouTube video entitled Ahmed Mohammed [sic] Clock is a FRAUD, in which user Thomas Talbot alleges Mohamed’s clock “is in fact not an invention. The ‘clock’ is a commercial bedside alarm clock removed from its casing”.

In his tweet, Dawkins said: “If this is true, what was his motive? Whether or not he wanted the police to arrest him, they shouldn’t have done so.” His next tweet said of the video: “This man seems to know what he’s talking about.”

Hey, Dawkins agreed with me

The alarm going off during class does add an interesting aspect to this that I hadn't considered.

As you mention, there is no backup battery attached, this means he plugged it in somewhere in the classroom and set the alarm to go off during the middle of class (old alarm clocks like this one with no battery attached have no preset alarms, all data is erased).

What was his intent with that stunt?

Probably to disrupt the class, and amuse his classmates by annoying the teacher.

If that warrants arrest, then I should have spent a sizeable fraction of my school days in jail.

But he seems to know ahead of time that some people find the device suspicious. His engineering teacher told him not to show it to anyone else. He also has said that he wrapped the power cord around it would "less suspicious".

“I closed it with a cable, so… because, I didn’t want to lock it to make it seem like a threat so I just used simple cable…. so it won’t look that much suspicious”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mW4w0Y1OXE

He admits he knew some might find it suspicious, yet he does the alarm clock prank anyway.

No, he still shouldn't have been arrested, but the school's actions are starting to look a little bit more reasonable.

No.

No they are not.

They were unreasonable from the start; they don't get more reasonable because the Twitterati have been able to come up with a bunch of spurious nonsense.

As I said, if that warrants arrest, then I should have spent a sizeable fraction of my school days in jail. I didn't, because my school took reasonable actions - they confiscated toys and the materials used for pranks, they gave out detentions and made us write lines, and they told our parents we were being disruptive, and let them discipline us for it. What they did not do is call the police, and have us arrested and marched out of school in handcuffs. Because that would have been completely unreasonable.

Um, the school wasn't the one that arrested him. Did you also skip over the part where I said that still shouldn't mean he should be arrested? However, the possibly that he intended it as a hoax bomb prank has a little bit of credibility to it. If not a hoax bomb, the fact is that he intentionally set off a device he admits some might find suspicious or a threat means he knew the teacher might take it the wrong way. And she did.

So let's summarize the facts:

1. He knew some might see it as a suspicious or as a threat. Why? Only one possible explanation: it might be mistaken for a bomb or some other suspicious device.
2. His engineering teacher told him not to show it to any other teachers. Why? Only one plausible explanation: it might be mistaken for a bomb or some other suspicious device.
3. Later, he plugs it in during class and sets the alarm to go off.

Why? Did he want to arouse suspicion, as a prank? That seems like what the cops were trying to find out, but all they got were passive-aggressive answers that it is "just a clock". Ok, everyone acknowledges that, but why put it in that particular case? Why set it off during class?

In the end, he wasn't charged with anything.

Still, the following actions were unreasonable:

1. Putting him in handcuffs.
2. Not allowing him a lawyer or parent present during questioning
3. I'm unsure of the 3 day suspension in light of these facts. It seems like maybe a 1 day suspension is not completely out of line, or at least detention. Not for transferring the clock to this case and bringing it to school to show his engineering teacher, but for knowing that some might find it suspicious or a threat and setting it to go off in the middle of class anyway.

 

[Axulus]

At a minimum, can we at least admit the media narrative is quite skewed?

Mainstream narrative: he built or invented a clock.
Fact: His project was a case mod, removing the guts from the original case and screwing them in to the pencil box. Not saying there is anything wrong with that (unless he chose this particular case intentionally to make people suspicious), and doing a simple case mod like this is a beginning step to understanding, but let's not be untruthful about it.

Mainstream narrative: he was arrested and suspended because the school and the cops thought it was a bomb after the English teacher innocently happened to stumble across it after the clock inadvertently and through no fault of Ahmed's started beeping. The reason for this is because everyone involved in every step of the process is Islamophobic, and Ahmed is a Muslim. Zero tolerance might be a factor, but the Muslim thing is what pushed it over the edge.

Fact: Ahmed admits he knew some might view it as suspicious or a threat, and yet chose this particular case to put the clock into anyway, and claims to have taken actions to mitigate the possibility of a perceived threat.
Fact: He intentionally plugged in the device and set the alarm to go off in the middle of class, which got the teachers attention. The cops therefore may have reasonable grounds to investigate a "bomb hoax" scenario. It's not completely out of the question given this fact pattern, and warrants follow-up.
Fact: The three day suspension was almost certainly for making it go off in the middle of class as a result of what the school thought were actions intended to make people suspicious, which isn't a completely implausible viewpoint given the facts.

Very reasonable speculation: Had the scenario been different, where the teacher saw something sticking out of his bag and asked what it was, and he said, "this is an alarm clock I took out of its case put in a pencil box, want to see?" "Sure...Oh my, why did you bring that to school?" "I brought it to show Mr. X, the engineering teacher.", the outcome almost certainly would've been different.

The only thing I can't explain are the handcuffs. Unreasonable under any interpretation of the facts (he was not violent or out of control, and did not pose any physical threat). It is probably this stupid action of the cops that made the case become so big in the first place, with the viral photo and everything.

 

[barbos]

Hey, Dawkins agreed with me

Yes. He seems to have gone nuts too.

How convenient.

 

[barbos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mW4w0Y1OXE

He admits he knew some might find it suspicious or see it as a threat, yet he brings it to school and pulls off the alarm clock stunt in the middle of class anyway.

No, he still shouldn't have been arrested, but the school's actions are starting to look a bit more reasonable.

I can see a little bit of passive-aggressive and cagey in that video.
Fact is, his story is not very coherent and does not corresponds to other facts, he is not telling the truth and if there is one way to raise suspicion in police is to hide the truth.
Also, he shows bunch of electronic guts which clearly he did not make himself, just old and random junk. This kid maybe living some fantasy.

 

[Arctish]

I expect a school Principal to know what electronic gizmos made by students in his school's robotics classes look like. My kid's class made things like that all the time, right there inside the school, and showed them off to other kids and favorite teachers.

That school's Principal is a twat.

How do you expect Principal to know if Akhmed did not tell anybody, not even his engineering teacher?

The robotics class is not a requirement, it's an elective. I expect him to know that. I also expect him to know the kids who choose to take that class are interested in electronic gizmos, are encouraged to build them, and that they do build them right there in school. I expect him check a student's records if s/he is sent to the Principal's Office with a homemade electronic gizmo, and to teach him/her the right lessons about bringing stuff to school, not the wrong lessons about stupid asswipes in authority.

And if it turns out the thing he called the cops about is nothing but a homemade clock, I expect him to be embarrassed about making a big deal out of nothing, and to apologize to the kid, not to double-down on the stupid by claiming it was a "hoax bomb".

 

[barbos]

How do you expect Principal to know if Akhmed did not tell anybody, not even his engineering teacher?

The robotics class is not a requirement, it's an elective. I expect him to know that. I also expect him to know the kids who choose to take that class are interested in electronic gizmos, are encouraged to build them, and that they do build them right there in school. I expect him check a student's records if s/he is sent to the Principal's Office with a homemade electronic gizmo, and to teach him/her the right lessons about bringing stuff to school, not the wrong lessons about stupid asswipes in authority.

And if it turns out the thing he called the cops about is nothing but a homemade clock, I expect him to be embarrassed about making a big deal out of nothing, and to apologize to the kid, not to double-down on the stupid by claiming it was a "hoax bomb".

You are amazing at ignoring facts ant reality.

 

[Arctish]

At a minimum, can we at least admit the media narrative is quite skewed?

Mainstream narrative: he built or invented a clock.

Fact: His project was a case mod, removing the guts from the original case and screwing them in to the pencil box. Not saying there is anything wrong with that (unless he chose this particular case intentionally to make people suspicious), and doing a simple case mod like this is a beginning step to understanding, but let's not be untruthful about it

I haven't heard anyone claim he invented a clock, but I have seen people setting up a strawman argument knocking down the non-existent claim he invented a clock.

The mainstream narrative is he took electronic clock parts from one case and put them into another case, and this was so innocuous that the jackboot overreaction of his school Principal and the cops was a national disgrace.

Mainstream narrative: he was arrested and suspended because the school and the cops thought it was a bomb after the English teacher innocently happened to stumble across it after the clock inadvertently and through no fault of Ahmed's started beeping. The reason for this is because everyone involved in every step of the process is Islamophobic, and Ahmed is a Muslim. Zero tolerance might be a factor, but the Muslim thing is what pushed it over the edge.

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up, but you forgot the part about the cop saying "I knew it was you" or words to that effect. How could the cop have known any such thing, when Ahmed hadn't been in any sort of trouble before? Was it the kid's name that aroused the cop's suspicion? It certainly couldn't have been due to any priors on his record, because there weren't any.

Fact: Ahmed admits he knew some might view it as suspicious or a threat, and yet chose this particular case to put the clock into anyway, and claims to have taken actions to mitigate the possibility of a perceived threat.
Fact: He intentionally plugged in the device and set the alarm to go off in the middle of class,

Did he plug it in, or are you speculating? The reports I read said the clock was in the kid's backpack when the alarm went off.

which got the teachers attention. The cops therefore may have reasonable grounds to investigate a "bomb hoax" scenario. It's not completely out of the question given this fact pattern, and warrants follow-up.
Fact: The three day suspension was almost certainly for making it go off in the middle of class as a result of what the school thought were actions intended to make people suspicious, which isn't a completely implausible viewpoint given the facts.

Fact: What you just posted is not a fact.

Also, fact: the kid is 14 years old, and can be expected to act with all the foresight, thoughtfulness, and maturity typically exhibited by boys his age. I'm sure his clock wasn't the only electronic device to ever accidently start making noise in English class.

And another fact: his school Principal and teachers deal with 14 year olds all the time. They should be old hands at this, and act with all the foresight, thoughtfulness, and maturity typically exhibited by people in their positions.

Very reasonable speculation: Had the scenario been different, where the teacher saw something sticking out of his bag and asked what it was, and he said, "this is an alarm clock I took out of its case put in a pencil box, want to see?" "Sure...Oh my, why did you bring that to school?" "I brought it to show Mr. X, the engineering teacher.", the outcome almost certainly would've been different.

The only thing I can't explain are the handcuffs. Unreasonable under any interpretation of the facts (he was not violent or out of control, and did not pose any physical threat). It is probably this stupid action of the cops that made the case become so big in the first place, with the viral photo and everything.

Yes, it was.

 

[Axulus]

I haven't heard anyone claim he invented a clock, but I have seen people setting up a strawman argument knocking down the non-existent claim he invented a clock.

The mainstream narrative is he took electronic clock parts from one case and put them into another case, and this was so innocuous that the jackboot overreaction of his school Principal and the cops was a national disgrace.

Mainstream narrative: he was arrested and suspended because the school and the cops thought it was a bomb after the English teacher innocently happened to stumble across it after the clock inadvertently and through no fault of Ahmed's started beeping. The reason for this is because everyone involved in every step of the process is Islamophobic, and Ahmed is a Muslim. Zero tolerance might be a factor, but the Muslim thing is what pushed it over the edge.

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up, but you forgot the part about the cop saying "I knew it was you" or words to that effect. How could the cop have known any such thing, when Ahmed hadn't been in any sort of trouble before? Was it the kid's name that aroused the cop's suspicion? It certainly couldn't have been due to any priors on his record, because there weren't any.

Fact: Ahmed admits he knew some might view it as suspicious or a threat, and yet chose this particular case to put the clock into anyway, and claims to have taken actions to mitigate the possibility of a perceived threat.
Fact: He intentionally plugged in the device and set the alarm to go off in the middle of class,

Did he plug it in, or are you speculating? The reports I read said the clock was in the kid's backpack when the alarm went off.

which got the teachers attention. The cops therefore may have reasonable grounds to investigate a "bomb hoax" scenario. It's not completely out of the question given this fact pattern, and warrants follow-up.
Fact: The three day suspension was almost certainly for making it go off in the middle of class as a result of what the school thought were actions intended to make people suspicious, which isn't a completely implausible viewpoint given the facts.

Fact: What you just posted is not a fact.

Also, fact: the kid is 14 years old, and can be expected to act with all the foresight, thoughtfulness, and maturity typically exhibited by boys his age. I'm sure his clock wasn't the only electronic device to ever accidently start making noise in English class.

Very reasonable speculation: Had the scenario been different, where the teacher saw something sticking out of his bag and asked what it was, and he said, "this is an alarm clock I took out of its case put in a pencil box, want to see?" "Sure...Oh my, why did you bring that to school?" "I brought it to show Mr. X, the engineering teacher.", the outcome almost certainly would've been different.

The only thing I can't explain are the handcuffs. Unreasonable under any interpretation of the facts (he was not violent or out of control, and did not pose any physical threat). It is probably this stupid action of the cops that made the case become so big in the first place, with the viral photo and everything.

Yes, it was.

We know he plugged it in and set the alarm to go off in the middle of class, as the clock had no other power source.

 

[barbos]

I haven't heard anyone claim he invented a clock, but I have seen people setting up a strawman argument knocking down the non-existent claim he invented a clock.

Have you read the the title of this thread?
And have you seen Facebook&MIT&Co acting up as if the kid was some kind of prodigy?

 

[barbos]

We know he plugged it in and set the alarm to go off in the middle of class, as the clock had no other power source.

Well, I don't think we know that for sure yet. Battery might be missing for some reason.

 

[Arctish]

We know he plugged it in and set the alarm to go off in the middle of class, as the clock had no other power source.

Did it have a power source that was removed before the police took that picture?

 

[barbos]

We know he plugged it in and set the alarm to go off in the middle of class, as the clock had no other power source.

Did it have a power source that was removed before the police took that picture?

That is the question. Unfortunately we don't have an answer. Police is probably scared of media to admit that clock was plugged during the class

 

[Arctish]

The robotics class is not a requirement, it's an elective. I expect him to know that. I also expect him to know the kids who choose to take that class are interested in electronic gizmos, are encouraged to build them, and that they do build them right there in school. I expect him check a student's records if s/he is sent to the Principal's Office with a homemade electronic gizmo, and to teach him/her the right lessons about bringing stuff to school, not the wrong lessons about stupid asswipes in authority.

And if it turns out the thing he called the cops about is nothing but a homemade clock, I expect him to be embarrassed about making a big deal out of nothing, and to apologize to the kid, not to double-down on the stupid by claiming it was a "hoax bomb".

You are amazing at ignoring facts ant reality.

What fact? What reality?

My kid enrolled in the robotics class in middle school. They built things like that clock all the time. Some schools are incorporating robotics into the kindergarten curriculum:

Brighton kindergarten's bug garden .

A teacher might not understand that a cobbled together electronic device is just a clock, but that doesn't justify arresting the kid who built it and then making up a bullshit story about a "hoax bomb".

 

[Arctish]

Did it have a power source that was removed before the police took that picture?

That is the question. Unfortunately we don't have an answer. Police is probably scared of media to admit that clock was plugged during the class

They're probably scared to admit how casually they handled the device, seeing as how they're claiming it looked like a bomb.

 

[barbos]

You are amazing at ignoring facts ant reality.

What fact? What reality?

My kid enrolled in the robotics class in middle school. They built things like that clock all the time. Some schools are incorporating robotics into the kindergarten curriculum:

Brighton kindergarten's bug garden .

A teacher might not understand that a cobbled together electronic device is just a clock, but that doesn't justify arresting the kid who built it and then making up a bullshit story about a "hoax bomb".

You made a claim that Principal sucked because he did not know that one of his student worked on that "project"
Unless your Principal is some kind of mind reader I see no reason to believe your Principal would be any different.

 

[barbos]

That is the question. Unfortunately we don't have an answer. Police is probably scared of media to admit that clock was plugged during the class

They're probably scared to admit how casually they handled the device, seeing as how they're claiming it looked like a bomb.

For million'th time "looked like a hoax bomb"

 

[Arctish]

What fact? What reality?

My kid enrolled in the robotics class in middle school. They built things like that clock all the time. Some schools are incorporating robotics into the kindergarten curriculum:

Brighton kindergarten's bug garden .

A teacher might not understand that a cobbled together electronic device is just a clock, but that doesn't justify arresting the kid who built it and then making up a bullshit story about a "hoax bomb".

You made a claim that Principal sucked because he did not know that one of his student worked on that "project"
Unless your Principal is some kind of mind reader I see no reason to believe your Principal would be any different.

No, I made the claim that the Principal sucks at his job because he doesn't support his students as they pursue knowledge and skill beyond the classroom. He should be proud to have kids so enthusiastic they take what they learn in school and come up with their own after-school projects. I said he sucked because instead of giving the kid a helpful lesson in the need for prior approval before bringing things into school, he chose to give the kid a harsh lesson in arbitrary exercises of authority, and what it feels like to be arrested, handcuffed, and marched out of school for a bullshit reason.

 

[Arctish]

They're probably scared to admit how casually they handled the device, seeing as how they're claiming it looked like a bomb.

For million'th time "looked like a hoax bomb"

For the millionth-plus-one time, no it didn't.

The only hoax being perpetrated is by the authorities, who are claiming that something that could be used in a hoax is the exact same thing as something which was used in a hoax.

Ahmed showed the thing to a teacher who knew what it was, and to the English teacher who heard the alarm go off and asked what it was. Both times he truthfully told them "it's a clock". When he was called into the Principal's Office, he showed it to the Principal and told him the same thing, "it's a clock". There was no hoax. So if Ahmed was arrested because his clock "looked like a hoax bomb", that means anyone with anything that might conceivably be used as a hoax bomb could be arrested, too, right?

Well, both the Boston Bombers and the guy who bombed the Centennial Olympic Park in Atlanta used backpack bombs. In fact, it was the unattended backpack that drew the attention of the security guard in Atlanta, which prompted him to evacuate the area and probably saved a lot of lives. That means backpacks look like hoax bombs, especially the ones sitting on cafeteria chairs with no students nearby. So I guess anyone wearing a backpack, or leaving their backpack unattended in that school, can be arrested and taken away in handcuffs.

 

[barbos]

You made a claim that Principal sucked because he did not know that one of his student worked on that "project"
Unless your Principal is some kind of mind reader I see no reason to believe your Principal would be any different.

No, I made the claim that the Principal sucks at his job because he doesn't support his students as they pursue knowledge and skill beyond the classroom. He should be proud to have kids so enthusiastic they take what they learn in school and come up with their own after-school projects. I said he sucked because instead of giving the kid a helpful lesson in the need for prior approval before bringing things into school, he chose to give the kid a harsh lesson in arbitrary exercises of authority, and what it feels like to be arrested, handcuffed, and marched out of school for a bullshit reason.

That's not what you said originally and it is even dumber and more disconnected from reality than originally.
that kid is none of these things you are saying.

- - - Updated - - -

For million'th time "looked like a hoax bomb"

For the millionth-plus-one time, no it didn't.

The only hoax being perpetrated is by the authorities, who are claiming that something that could be used in a hoax is the exact same thing as something which was used in a hoax.

The kid is a liar, and that thing looks like a hoax bomb, period.