#IStandWithAhmed (or Inventing While Muslim is a thing?)

[Arctish]

The chief's comment was that without explanation, if left unattended somewhere, it could be mistaken for a bomb. That has nothing to do with what Ahmed said, except that apparently he could not adequately explain why he would make such a contraption.

Ahmed did adequately explain why he made the clock and brought it to school. He made it and brought it in to show his engineering teacher what he could do. The only reason the cops said this explanation was inadequate was because they were fishing for another explanation.

He absolutely did not do that.

Yes, he absolutely did explain why he brought the clock to school: to show his engineering teacher what he could do. His explanation was not only adequate, it was fully supported by evidence.

That's not an adequate explanation and it is not supported by evidence.

Of course it is, and of course it is.

 

[barbos]

The chief's comment was that without explanation, if left unattended somewhere, it could be mistaken for a bomb. That has nothing to do with what Ahmed said, except that apparently he could not adequately explain why he would make such a contraption.

Ahmed did adequately explain why he made the clock and brought it to school. He made it and brought it in to show his engineering teacher what he could do. The only reason the cops said this explanation was inadequate was because they were fishing for another explanation.

He absolutely did not do that.

Yes, he absolutely did explain why he brought the clock to school: to show his engineering teacher what he could do. His explanation was not only adequate, it was fully supported by evidence.

That's not an adequate explanation and it is not supported by evidence.

Of course it is, and of course it is.

Of course it was not and is not.

 

[barbos]

Let me ask clockboy supporters, I understand you support him, but do you think he deserves $15mil?

 

[Arctish]

The chief's comment was that without explanation, if left unattended somewhere, it could be mistaken for a bomb. That has nothing to do with what Ahmed said, except that apparently he could not adequately explain why he would make such a contraption.

Ahmed did adequately explain why he made the clock and brought it to school. He made it and brought it in to show his engineering teacher what he could do. The only reason the cops said this explanation was inadequate was because they were fishing for another explanation.

He absolutely did not do that.

Yes, he absolutely did explain why he brought the clock to school: to show his engineering teacher what he could do. His explanation was not only adequate, it was fully supported by evidence.

That's not an adequate explanation and it is not supported by evidence.

Of course it is, and of course it is.

Of course it was not and is not.

There is nothing inadequate about his explanation. Wanting to show his teacher what he could do is more than sufficient to explain why he made the case mod clock and brought it to school.

The evidence supporting this explanation consists of him doing what he said he wanted to do: showing it to his engineering teacher during his first class period. And he has an established history of bringing home made electronic gizmos to school to show to his teachers, which also supports his explanation why he made the case mod clock and why he had it in his backpack.

The evidence is more than sufficient to support the explanation, and the explanation is sufficient by itself.

 

[Arctish]

Let me ask clockboy supporters, I understand you support him, but do you think he deserves $15mil?

I already asked the Americans here how much their civil rights are worth.

 

[barbos]

Let me ask clockboy supporters, I understand you support him, but do you think he deserves $15mil?

I already asked the Americans here how much their civil rights are worth.

That's not an answer

 

[barbos]

There is nothing inadequate about his explanation. Wanting to show his teacher what he could do is more than sufficient to explain why he made the case mod clock and brought it to school.

And what exactly did he do?

The evidence supporting this explanation consists of him doing what he said

What he said and says is not supported by reality.

he wanted to do: showing it to his engineering teacher during his first class period. And he has an established history of bringing home made electronic gizmos to school

Such as.....?

to show to his teachers, which also supports his explanation why he made the case mod clock

That's not what he said.

and why he had it in his backpack.

The evidence is more than sufficient to support the explanation, and the explanation is sufficient by itself.

No, there is no evidence whatsoever to support his "explanation"

 

[Arctish]

And what exactly did he do?

The evidence supporting this explanation consists of him doing what he said

What he said and says is not supported by reality.

he wanted to do: showing it to his engineering teacher during his first class period. And he has an established history of bringing home made electronic gizmos to school

Such as.....?

to show to his teachers, which also supports his explanation why he made the case mod clock

That's not what he said.

and why he had it in his backpack.

The evidence is more than sufficient to support the explanation, and the explanation is sufficient by itself.

No, there is no evidence whatsoever to support his "explanation"

Well, you're wrong, but I can't say I'm surprised.

You know nothing about Probable Cause as defined by US law or the rights of American citizens. That's not surprising either, considering you live in Europe. But you could at least try to understand our system before you try telling us how it works.

 

[laughing dog]

Let me ask clockboy supporters, I understand you support him, but do you think he deserves $15mil?

I don't think the lawsuit will go to trial. I don't think if it goes to trial that he will end up being awarded $15 million. I doubt he suffered longstanding or severe damage that he needs such a sum for long-term treatment. But I do think an award sufficient to wake up the police and the school system is in order.

 

[barbos]

And what exactly did he do?

What he said and says is not supported by reality.

he wanted to do: showing it to his engineering teacher during his first class period. And he has an established history of bringing home made electronic gizmos to school

Such as.....?

to show to his teachers, which also supports his explanation why he made the case mod clock

That's not what he said.

and why he had it in his backpack.

The evidence is more than sufficient to support the explanation, and the explanation is sufficient by itself.

No, there is no evidence whatsoever to support his "explanation"

Well, you're wrong, but I can't say I'm surprised.

You know nothing about Probable Cause as defined by US law or the rights of American citizens. That's not surprising either, considering you live in Europe. But you could at least try to understand our system before you try telling us how it works.

I know there was plenty of probable cause to arrest him. I know your system and I know that police can use discretion and you don't have to be actually guilty to get arrested, there is simply no such requirement.

 

[thebeave]

Let me ask clockboy supporters, I understand you support him, but do you think he deserves $15mil?

I don't think the lawsuit will go to trial. I don't think if it goes to trial that he will end up being awarded $15 million. I doubt he suffered longstanding or severe damage that he needs such a sum for long-term treatment. But I do think an award sufficient to wake up the police and the school system is in order.

I think the plan that Ahmed's lawyers had in mind was that they would initially demand a huge, ridiculous sum (i.e.$15 mil), but without filing an official legal suit and the complications that entails. Their hope would be that they could get some small fraction of their demand (they'd probably settle for getting a couple hundred thousand or even less), figuring the city and school district would throw them a bone just to get them off their back. Not a bad deal...Ahmed and his lawyers still get a nice chunk of change without having to break a sweat. And no scrutiny of their actions in the whole affair. They're probably crossing their fingers and hoping the city and school won't call their bluff and send this thing to trial. I believe that's the last thing Ahmed's lawyers want, as that would likely force the release of a lot of potentially embarrassing and contradictory details on the case that has been, up to now, not disclosed. The whole world would then realize they're nothing but con artists and they would become pariahs, even among the liberals who've supported them. I think if the city and school district basically say "Fuck you, no money and no apology" (which I hope they do), Ahmed and his lawyers will ultimately back down, walk away, play victim again and somehow turn the whole incident into a rallying cry for oppressed Muslims. Even without getting a single dime from the city and school, they know they've made out nicely. Publicity, fame, free trips around the world, meeting Pres Obama, cash donations, tons of and free stuff from Microsoft and others. And the best of all, getting a nice hug from Darfur killer guy in Sudan!

 

[dismal]

If there is a true accounting of the "damages" Ahmed has suffered he'll be writing MacArthur a check.

I believe the school district is itching to tell their side of the story. Perhaps the lawsuit is the means by which they will achieve that.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

No, there is no evidence whatsoever to support his "explanation."

He was under no requirement to explain anything. A person has the right to remain silent. Moreover, the burden was not on him but on police to demonstrate probable cause for an arrest.

The police said that Ahmed said it was a clock repeatedly. They then threatened him to sign a confession that it was a hoax bomb or he would be expelled. That's an abuse of power in the United States, anyway. There are not supposed to be any promises of leniency made to get a confession.

Finally, so far as the left loving Muslims and whatever other extreme statements you and angelo say, I will remind you of liberal values. Just like we will defend someone's right to say something we disagree with, we will also defend the rights to liberty of either despicable or oppressed people in this country. They are all equally protected by our Bill of Rights.

 

[barbos]

No, there is no evidence whatsoever to support his "explanation."

He was under no requirement to explain anything.

Yes, and that's what he did - explained nothing. And Police arrested him because he did not explain anything.

A person has the right to remain silent. Moreover, the burden was not on him

Yes, burden was on Police, hence they arrested him.

but on police to demonstrate probable cause for an arrest.

And they did.

The police said that Ahmed said it was a clock repeatedly. They then threatened him to sign a confession that it was a hoax bomb or he would be expelled.

According to whom?

That's an abuse of power in the United States, anyway. There are not supposed to be any promises of leniency made to get a confession.

Finally, so far as the left loving Muslims and whatever other extreme statements you and angelo say, I will remind you of liberal values. Just like we will defend someone's right to say something we disagree with, we will also defend the rights to liberty of either despicable or oppressed people in this country. They are all equally protected by our Bill of Rights.

You can have all the liberal values you want, but I want your ass arrested for hoax bombs every time.

 

[Jayjay]

The English teacher flat out said she thought it looked like a bomb. The engineering teacher adviced Ahmed to not show it to anyone.

Whether someone could have pretended it was a bomb was the topic that the police chief was commenting on. I was not suggesting that he actually did, only the logical fallacy of saying that he possibly couldn't have because he would have been caught. If that was a valid defense then there would be no crimes that could be prosecuted as being intentional.

Since Ahmed did not pretend it was a bomb and there was no evidence he had, the chief's comment was pointless.

The chief's comment was that without explanation, if left unattended somewhere, it could be mistaken for a bomb. That has nothing to do with what Ahmed said, except that apparently he could not adequately explain why he would make such a contraption.

So what if someone might mistake something for a bomb? That is still a pointless remark. And Ahmed is under no legal, moral or even rational obligation to explain anything - a child is not responsible for the stupidity of adults.

Ahmed did adequately explain why he made the clock and brought it to school. He made it and brought it in to show his engineering teacher what he could do. The only reason the cops said this explanation was inadequate was because they were fishing for another explanation.

Or because Ahmed did not explain it as you said. Or if he did not explain it to the police clearly enough. Until we have police transcript, we really don't know what he said, but based on his interviews it is sometimes really hard to understand what he's mumbling on about. I would imagine that under that situation Ahmed would be a bit nervous and even less capable of explaining himself.

 

[Jayjay]

Let me ask clockboy supporters, I understand you support him, but do you think he deserves $15mil?

I already asked the Americans here how much their civil rights are worth.

And I think those who did answer, would have gladly spent a few hours chatting with the police and taken a trip to the police station for $15 million. Calling this little fumble a civil rights violation is an insult to real civil rights violations.

 

[laughing dog]

Or because Ahmed did not explain it as you said. Or if he did not explain it to the police clearly enough.

Since he is under no obligation to explain it all, one wonders why you are still harping over this.

- - - Updated - - -

Calling this little fumble a civil rights violation is an insult to real civil rights violations.

Any violation of civil rights is a real civil rights violation.

 

[Arctish]

If there is a true accounting of the "damages" Ahmed has suffered he'll be writing MacArthur a check.

I believe the school district is itching to tell their side of the story. Perhaps the lawsuit is the means by which they will achieve that.

I too believe the school district is itching to tell their side of the story. I also believe that the district is being told by their legal counsel that once they open that can of worms, there's no telling what will be exposed to the light of day.

The Plaintiff will have access to school and district records and will be able to compare the treatment of boys vs. girls, blacks vs. whites, and Christians vs. Muslims. If the Plaintiff uncovers evidence indicating white Christian girls aren't taken from the school in handcuffs and suspended for 3 days when they bring in items that someone somewhere might think was dangerous, that will strengthen the Plaintiff's case that Ahmed received unduly harsh treatment because of his race, gender, and religious affiliation. If the Plaintiff discovers someone like angelo on the school or district staff, or that the mayor's bigotry has influenced school policy, the Plaintiff's case will be won before the trial even starts. And if the Plaintiff uncovers a long standing pattern of racial, religious, and gender bias, boy howdy, things will become very interesting down there in Texas.

 

[Jayjay]

Or because Ahmed did not explain it as you said. Or if he did not explain it to the police clearly enough.

Since he is under no obligation to explain it all, one wonders why you are still harping over this.

Because the lack of an adequate explanation was the stated reason for his detainment.

 

[Arctish]

He was under no requirement to explain anything.

Yes, and that's what he did - explained nothing. And Police arrested him because he did not explain anything.

Since he is under no obligation to explain it all, one wonders why you are still harping over this.

Because the lack of an adequate explanation was the stated reason for his detainment.

If that is true, then the cops violated his civil rights.

The inability or disinclination to explain something to the satisfaction of a cop does not give the cop Probable Cause to make an arrest. You don't seem to understand this point. Perhaps that's how it is where you live, but that's not how it works here in the US.